Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

For discussions covering more than one Toho film or show that span across more than one “era.”
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Kaltes-Herzeleid
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Ironically for me it's the opposite. Making the spines bigger and more in line with 1954 improved the design immensely for me.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Smuggers wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:56 pm Overall I like the 2014 design more than 2019's, the tweaks the latter made didn't really work for me.
I find myself missing Legendary Godzilla's old spiky spines the most. The only issue I had with them was they were a little bit too small, but otherwise they complemented the design nicely.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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More a kaiju thought than a Godzilla specifically one. The Heisei Gamera trilogy rightfully deserve a lot of the praise they get and I'd never suggest they aren't good, but I think some have the hype really flavor their opinions. Honestly find a majority of the human characters nothing special and more than a few times the plot seems to suffer some clutter. Still, while these are nitpicks against the great whole, I don't find them the flawless masterpieces that blow everything else in the genre out of the water. I recently helped host a 'Gamera-thon' on a reasonably big discord server, with a good dozen or so people having little exposure to the turtle beforehand or having not seen the films before. Observing the reactions, while no one disliked the films and one friend even remarks G3 was his next favorite film in the genre to Shin Godzilla now; most were much more middle the road. More than a few actually voiced a preference for the goofy as heck Texarkana dub for Legion and The Brave's storytelling to G3's. Honestly speaking, I was inclined to agree on some points.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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If there is one thing I can prefer with Gamera the Brave over the Heisei Trilogy (Even if nothing else) is I feel the more optimistic tone of it works better for Gamera than the bleak almost nihilistic at times tone the Heisei Trilogy has (Especially Gamera 3). I always felt Gamera the Brave was better at capturing the spirit of what Gamera should be and building on the strengths of the flawed Showa films than the Heisei which while objective great Kaiju films seemed too much of a jarring deconstruction for my taste.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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godjacob wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:55 am If there is one thing I can prefer with Gamera the Brave over the Heisei Trilogy (Even if nothing else) is I feel the more optimistic tone of it works better for Gamera than the bleak almost nihilistic at times tone the Heisei Trilogy has (Especially Gamera 3). I always felt Gamera the Brave was better at capturing the spirit of what Gamera should be and building on the strengths of the flawed Showa films than the Heisei which while objective great Kaiju films seemed too much of a jarring deconstruction for my taste.
I can concur there. Plus the family relation I felt was very well handled, better than Asagi and her father from Guardian of the Universe. Kousuke and Toru were way more fleshed out than most parent-child duos in a kaiju property and I honestly feel Gamera the Brave is a perfect balance of Showa-Era wholesomeness and child appeal with the more serious subject matter of the Heisei era.


Oh, and as for a Godzilla opinion. For all of Toho's christening of Godzilla and Ghidorah as bitter rivals, I never actually felt the two had any personal malice towards one another in particular until GOTM. Every other time it came off more as they were just another foe to fight, no matter what roles they were in.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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godjacob wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:55 am If there is one thing I can prefer with Gamera the Brave over the Heisei Trilogy (Even if nothing else) is I feel the more optimistic tone of it works better for Gamera than the bleak almost nihilistic at times tone the Heisei Trilogy has (Especially Gamera 3). I always felt Gamera the Brave was better at capturing the spirit of what Gamera should be and building on the strengths of the flawed Showa films than the Heisei which while objective great Kaiju films seemed too much of a jarring deconstruction for my taste.
Well he is called The Last Hope in the trilogy. As dark as 3 got, there was hope. He forgave Ayane and saved her, and he's marching to the next fight for us despite all he's been through (some of that we put him through) and humanity is finally realizing he's is not the villain and is gonna team up with him again in the battle with the Hyper Gyaos. He never gave up on us, and it's paid off.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Living Corpse wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:19 pm
godjacob wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:55 am If there is one thing I can prefer with Gamera the Brave over the Heisei Trilogy (Even if nothing else) is I feel the more optimistic tone of it works better for Gamera than the bleak almost nihilistic at times tone the Heisei Trilogy has (Especially Gamera 3). I always felt Gamera the Brave was better at capturing the spirit of what Gamera should be and building on the strengths of the flawed Showa films than the Heisei which while objective great Kaiju films seemed too much of a jarring deconstruction for my taste.
Well he is called The Last Hope in the trilogy. As dark as 3 got, there was hope. He forgave Ayane and saved her, and he's marching to the next fight for us despite all he's been through (some of that we put him through) and humanity is finally realizing he's is not the villain and is gonna team up with him again in the battle with the Hyper Gyaos. He never gave up on us, and it's paid off.
Oh I can concur. I think he was talking the tone of the movie as a whole.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Desghidorah wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:28 pm
Living Corpse wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:19 pm
godjacob wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:55 am If there is one thing I can prefer with Gamera the Brave over the Heisei Trilogy (Even if nothing else) is I feel the more optimistic tone of it works better for Gamera than the bleak almost nihilistic at times tone the Heisei Trilogy has (Especially Gamera 3). I always felt Gamera the Brave was better at capturing the spirit of what Gamera should be and building on the strengths of the flawed Showa films than the Heisei which while objective great Kaiju films seemed too much of a jarring deconstruction for my taste.
Well he is called The Last Hope in the trilogy. As dark as 3 got, there was hope. He forgave Ayane and saved her, and he's marching to the next fight for us despite all he's been through (some of that we put him through) and humanity is finally realizing he's is not the villain and is gonna team up with him again in the battle with the Hyper Gyaos. He never gave up on us, and it's paid off.
Oh I can concur. I think he was talking the tone of the movie as a whole.
Yeah I was more speaking on the overall tone lol the ending was the sprinkle of optimism on a cake of depression.

As far as Godzilla/Ghidorah as rivals, barring the number of times they fought KOTM is the only one to actually give direct history between the two and having beating the other as part of the Kaiju's goals. Threats for dominion over the world. Showa Ghidorah was usually just a weapon for an alien race minus his first film where he was gonna go destroy Earth regardless of what was on it with Godzilla having just met him.

Heisei they both become nuclear babies but beyond that it is just the Futirians weapon.

Millennium the Guardians simply are there to combat the great evil which happened to be Godzilla rather than there being a previous conflict between Guardian Ghidorah and GMK Godzilla. Monster X/Keizer Ghidorah was just the last obstacle the Xiliens sent to dispose of Godzilla when other options failed.
Last edited by godjacob on Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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godjacob wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:57 pm
Desghidorah wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:28 pm Oh I can concur. I think he was talking the tone of the movie as a whole.
Yeah I was more speaking on the overall tone lol the ending was the sprinkle of optimism on a cake of depression.

As far as Godzilla/Ghidorah as rivals, barring the number of times they fought KOTM is the only one to actually give direct history between the two and having beating the other as part of the Kaiju's goals. Threats for dominion over the world. Showa Ghidorah was usually just a weapon for an alien race minus his first film where he was gonna go destroy Earth regardless of what was on it with Godzilla having just met him.

Heisei they both become nuclear babies but beyond that it is just the Futirians weapon.

Millennium the Guardians simply are there to combat the great evil which happened to be Godzilla rather than there being a previous conflict between Guardian Ghidorah and GMK Godzilla. Monster X/Keizer Ghidorah was just the last obstacle the Xiliens sent to dispose of Godzilla when other options failed.
Ah good, worried I put words in your mouth :lol:

But yeah, Ghidorah's pre-KOTM hype as Godzilla's nemesis was likely born more out of them having fought a bunch of times, be it combination of the Showa Ghidorah suit being hardy enough to survive multiple films or hype leading to rebooted brawls in new continuities, than the two actually having anything resembling a dynamic or malice between them. I notice how a majority of the fight just happen because one of the two was rampaging and the other either happened upon them or was ordered to attack. The only times they actively sought the other out were KOTM and to an extent GMK (lesser so given, as you pointed out, they had no history together). Kaizer/Monster X might as well been a random videogame boss who jumped into a film.

It's not bad, but I didn't find it as hyped as some fans and even Toho spoke it up to be. A contrast I could draw is Gamera and Gyaos. Gyaos and Gamera had next to nill to do with each other in the Showa era, but the Heisei era intrinsically tied the two together and made their histories and actions tied to one another. That's the vibe I got from KOTM.

PS: Notice how you didn't even mention AniGoji :lol:
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Desghidorah wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:24 pm
godjacob wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:57 pm
Desghidorah wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:28 pm Oh I can concur. I think he was talking the tone of the movie as a whole.
Yeah I was more speaking on the overall tone lol the ending was the sprinkle of optimism on a cake of depression.

As far as Godzilla/Ghidorah as rivals, barring the number of times they fought KOTM is the only one to actually give direct history between the two and having beating the other as part of the Kaiju's goals. Threats for dominion over the world. Showa Ghidorah was usually just a weapon for an alien race minus his first film where he was gonna go destroy Earth regardless of what was on it with Godzilla having just met him.

Heisei they both become nuclear babies but beyond that it is just the Futirians weapon.

Millennium the Guardians simply are there to combat the great evil which happened to be Godzilla rather than there being a previous conflict between Guardian Ghidorah and GMK Godzilla. Monster X/Keizer Ghidorah was just the last obstacle the Xiliens sent to dispose of Godzilla when other options failed.
Ah good, worried I put words in your mouth :lol:

But yeah, Ghidorah's pre-KOTM hype as Godzilla's nemesis was likely born more out of them having fought a bunch of times, be it combination of the Showa Ghidorah suit being hardy enough to survive multiple films or hype leading to rebooted brawls in new continuities, than the two actually having anything resembling a dynamic or malice between them. I notice how a majority of the fight just happen because one of the two was rampaging and the other either happened upon them or was ordered to attack. The only times they actively sought the other out were KOTM and to an extent GMK (lesser so given, as you pointed out, they had no history together). Kaizer/Monster X might as well been a random videogame boss who jumped into a film.

It's not bad, but I didn't find it as hyped as some fans and even Toho spoke it up to be. A contrast I could draw is Gamera and Gyaos. Gyaos and Gamera had next to nill to do with each other in the Showa era, but the Heisei era intrinsically tied the two together and made their histories and actions tied to one another. That's the vibe I got from KOTM.

PS: Notice how you didn't even mention AniGoji :lol:
No worries you good XD.

To be fair another factor is Ghidorah was and is an incredibly popular Kaiju following his debut so he gets used frequently as do Rodan and Mothra. And with him (Usually) being portrayed as the outright evil one he is opposition to Godzilla hence conflict. When you get to it most Kaiju rivalries lack any real history beyond how often they fight. The only Mechagodzilla that actually has any connection to Godzilla beyond "Mech made in his image to fight him" was Kiryu. Kong is a rival purely because of historical significance to the genre as they only have fought once in the Showa films with the fight literally being made like how kids with action figures would set up a clash rather than beef between the two leading them to each other (MonsterVerse also will likely go this direction, but no idea cause film not out so they could get history like KOTM did for Ghidorah/Godzilla so no spoilers on rumors pls lol).

Heisei Trilogy was the best thing to ever happen to Gyaos. Before that he was just one of many monsters Gamera fought and none of Gamera's foes tended to have much personal history with Gamera (Beyond Gamera being a forced parent for Jiger) but the Heisei worked to give them that history and animosity between them.

AniGoji needed a personality to have any personal beef with anything XD. And Anime Ghidorah was gonna try to eat the world Godzilla or no Godzilla, but the anime is another can of worms. I felt more of a rivalry between the two in the Shin Godzilla/Evangelion crossover which was a freakin theme park ride lol

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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godjacob wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:57 pm Yeah I was more speaking on the overall tone lol the ending was the sprinkle of optimism on a cake of depression.

As far as Godzilla/Ghidorah as rivals, barring the number of times they fought KOTM is the only one to actually give direct history between the two and having beating the other as part of the Kaiju's goals. Threats for dominion over the world. Showa Ghidorah was usually just a weapon for an alien race minus his first film where he was gonna go destroy Earth regardless of what was on it with Godzilla having just met him.

Heisei they both become nuclear babies but beyond that it is just the Futirians weapon.

Millennium the Guardians simply are there to combat the great evil which happened to be Godzilla rather than there being a previous conflict between Guardian Ghidorah and GMK Godzilla. Monster X/Keizer Ghidorah was just the last obstacle the Xiliens sent to dispose of Godzilla when other options failed.
Yeah. Toho has been saying Godzilla and King Ghidorah are arch-enemies to each other and I can believe they are but they never really showed it till G:KOTM. Love or hate that film, as much as it can be a mess, it did finally deliver on showing them actually hating each other with a bloody history instead of just telling us they do. Closest we had to that before was Godzilla stomping on him in DAM.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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When will next Godzilla movie come. Eagerly waiting for the Fight between Godzilla and King Kong...

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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EmmaAsh wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:57 pm When will next Godzilla movie come. Eagerly waiting for the Fight between Godzilla and King Kong...
Google it.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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EmmaAsh wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:57 pm When will next Godzilla movie come. Eagerly waiting for the Fight between Godzilla and King Kong...
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Desghidorah wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:41 am More than a few actually voiced a preference for the goofy as heck Texarkana dub for Legion
These people are wrong.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Kaltes-Herzeleid wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:44 am
Desghidorah wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:41 am More than a few actually voiced a preference for the goofy as heck Texarkana dub for Legion
These people are wrong.
To be fair, the Legion dub is often considered the weakest for the trilogy.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Sometimes a silly dub ends up making something more popular. Showa Gamera got its spotlight on movie marathons and MST3K riffs from their goofier English Dub releases so...even if not preferred, there may be value in that approach.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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There’s a hell of a difference in riffing a Showa Gamera film vs riffing Attack of Legion. You don’t need a silly dub to make the latter a more enjoyable experience.

That said, this may sound kind of gate keep-y, but I’m not sure why we’re looking at the opinions of people with no experience with the genre to judge the Gamera trilogy. A Japanese kaiju film, even one as serious a Heisei Gamera, is so outside the general westerner experience that it just comes across as inherently strange and silly. And without knowing the context surrounding these films they’re that much harder to appreciate.

You wouldn’t expect a decent critical evaluation of a silent film from someone who hasn’t seen a silent film before. You wouldn’t expect an anime to be properly judged by someone with no experience with anime. Why expect the same with Japanese kaiju films?
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Kaiju-King42 wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:07 am There’s a hell of a difference in riffing a Showa Gamera film vs riffing Attack of Legion. You don’t need a silly dub to make the latter a more enjoyable experience.

That said, this may sound kind of gate keep-y, but I’m not sure why we’re looking at the opinions of people with no experience with the genre to judge the Gamera trilogy. A Japanese kaiju film, even one as serious a Heisei Gamera, is so outside the general westerner experience that it just comes across as inherently strange and silly. And without knowing the context surrounding these films they’re that much harder to appreciate.

You wouldn’t expect a decent critical evaluation of a silent film from someone who hasn’t seen a silent film before. You wouldn’t expect an anime to be properly judged by someone with no experience with anime. Why expect the same with Japanese kaiju films?
To clarify about my friends in question here when I hosted the movie night streams are well familiar with the genre, they'd just seen much more Godzilla, Mothra, or extraneous films than Gamera films. No particular era, but well acquainted with the genre. Of the dozen or so in attendance on average (we staggered the streams to allow for a rerun for those who had work the prior night or so; so exact numbers bounced up and down), I'd say about a third had seen the Heisei Gamera trilogy recently, another two or three had seen them but not in a long time, and the rest hadn't seen them but had seen kaiju films before. One stream was with the subbed and another with the dubbed. General reaction to Legion was the kaiju action and effects were great, but most of the humans and in particular the dubbed version, ran stale. Especially the female lead Midori. On a whim because I had the Arrow collection, I hosted a third airing with the Lake Texarkana dub for fun and the livelier performances and gags got a more positive reaction.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Kaiju-King42 wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:07 am There’s a hell of a difference in riffing a Showa Gamera film vs riffing Attack of Legion. You don’t need a silly dub to make the latter a more enjoyable experience.

That said, this may sound kind of gate keep-y, but I’m not sure why we’re looking at the opinions of people with no experience with the genre to judge the Gamera trilogy. A Japanese kaiju film, even one as serious a Heisei Gamera, is so outside the general westerner experience that it just comes across as inherently strange and silly. And without knowing the context surrounding these films they’re that much harder to appreciate.

You wouldn’t expect a decent critical evaluation of a silent film from someone who hasn’t seen a silent film before. You wouldn’t expect an anime to be properly judged by someone with no experience with anime. Why expect the same with Japanese kaiju films?
This is why I specified sometimes lol

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