Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby GuardianGhido » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:05 am

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
JAGzilla wrote:While I won't argue that KOTM's nuclear element runs very contrary to Toho's, is it such a bad thing that an American Godzilla film presents an American viewpoint on this issue? Why make Godzilla films here if they're just going to be carbon copies of the Japanese ones? And it isn't like there isn't a legitimate case to be made for nuclear weapons being a semi-good thing. For all the tragedy and horror of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan may well owe its current existence as an independent nation to the fact that wars between major powers are currently made impossible by Mutually Assured Destruction.

The execution was shoddy, though, for sure.

I’m not going to even attempt to answer the latter point other then you can make that point for every horrible event and history(and thus it’s a cop out defense); but in regards to the first point;

Yeah, American Godzilla films, or anything by non Japanese studios IMO should not be carbon copies of Japanese ones. The issue is though, that rather then try and do their own thing, while being RESPECTFUL, they’ve kind of ran contrary to the thematic intent of the franchise.

OK so you agree that KOTM was respectful but still worse than the disrespectful G98? I'm not getting this.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby JAGzilla » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:10 am

LSD Jellyfish wrote:I’m not going to even attempt to answer the latter point other then you can make that point for every horrible event and history(and thus it’s a cop out defense); but in regards to the first point;

Yeah, American Godzilla films, or anything by non Japanese studios IMO should not be carbon copies of Japanese ones. The issue is though, that rather then try and do their own thing, while being RESPECTFUL, they’ve kind of ran contrary to the thematic intent of the franchise.

While this is too on the nose, and not something I’d want to necessarily see; I sort of view Cloverfield as a more contemporary American parallel to Godzilla, and in some strange ways it’s more authentic in capturing the spirit of the franchise.

If you say,”Augh yeah but it’s just a Godzilla movie brah”, keep in mind movies are art; and there are plenty of Godzilla films both old and relatively recent that have dealt with societal issues and provided commentary while delivering the monster action. Saying ,”It’s just a Godzilla film” is detrimental and insincere to the franchise as a whole.


What other horrible historical events make it currently impossible for major powers to seriously fight one another?

If the filmmakers were disrespectful, I don't think it was intentional. The movie seemed more stupidly misguided than anything, not that that is necessarily an excuse.

Yes, Cloverfield could be seen as a good American parallel to Godzilla. I'm not sure that's relevant right now, though, given that we're talking about an American attempt at Godzilla himself.

And I didn't say 'it's just a Godzilla movie' in this conversation, nor have I ever unironically used the word 'brah.' :P I will allow that I've used that statement as a not-very-serious defense of vs. Megalon and vs. Megaguirus in the past. What I meant by it is that while yes, all movies are art, not all of them are aiming to be high art. A large portion of the kaiju genre makes little or no effort to be anything other than an excuse to make rubber monsters break things or fight. Generally I am supportive of efforts to aim higher than that, but I have no problem shutting my brain off and having fun when the dumb fun route is taken.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:10 am

I predicted a year ago that people would be mad about certain aspects of the movie based on the old leaks, but even I in my pessimism didn't expect people to latch onto those aspects like a bulldog and refuse to let it go over multiple threads, and I certainly didn't expect "Worse than G98!" even on my most cynical days. Guess I should have known better.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby ManuJM1997 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:13 am

Well, trying to lift things a bit away from the KOTM talk, well, unpopular opinion

While Ifukube's Godzilla theme is much more iconic and I like it and respect it, imo Michiru Oshima's theme is the best theme Godzilla has had

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Dv-218 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:32 am

ManuJM1997 wrote:Well, trying to lift things a bit away from the KOTM talk, well, unpopular opinion

While Ifukube's Godzilla theme is much more iconic and I like it and respect it, imo Michiru Oshima's theme is the best theme Godzilla has had

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JLh3IKhEeQ


Same. While I still love Ifukube's "Godzilla march" the most, Oshima's theme might be my favorite in the Millennium series, and my 2nd favorite in the franchise overall. I just love how powerful yet ominous and mysterious it sounds, fits with Godzilla's nature perfectly.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:19 am

GuardianGhido wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:
JAGzilla wrote:While I won't argue that KOTM's nuclear element runs very contrary to Toho's, is it such a bad thing that an American Godzilla film presents an American viewpoint on this issue? Why make Godzilla films here if they're just going to be carbon copies of the Japanese ones? And it isn't like there isn't a legitimate case to be made for nuclear weapons being a semi-good thing. For all the tragedy and horror of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan may well owe its current existence as an independent nation to the fact that wars between major powers are currently made impossible by Mutually Assured Destruction.

The execution was shoddy, though, for sure.

I’m not going to even attempt to answer the latter point other then you can make that point for every horrible event and history(and thus it’s a cop out defense); but in regards to the first point;

Yeah, American Godzilla films, or anything by non Japanese studios IMO should not be carbon copies of Japanese ones. The issue is though, that rather then try and do their own thing, while being RESPECTFUL, they’ve kind of ran contrary to the thematic intent of the franchise.

OK so you agree that KOTM was respectful but still worse than the disrespectful G98? I'm not getting this.

KOTM is worse thematically than G’98, because some of its thematic intent is insulting to actual people when you really begin to think about it.

KOTM is trying to be respectful by including a lot of stereotypical Godzilla things, and the inclusion of other Toho monsters. In that regard it’s way more entertaining. But KOTM utterly fails at the other side of Godzilla; cultural relevance and the haphazard use of nukes. And once you start to realize that it becomes evident that 98 while a bad Godzilla film, that is not accurate to the character physically, at least it doesn’t have 98 saying nukes are a good thing or something to really joke about.

I’ll just reiterate this:
-98 is a failure at representing the Godzilla character physically; Godzilla is weak, runs, lacks any sort of real breath ability etc...On top of that the movie surrounding it is boring and not really memorable. As a Godzilla fan the film is bad.

-KOTM is more stylistically similar to other Godzilla films. Godzilla is strong, has a beam etc...in that regard it’s more faithful. However, the core of the original series, was nuclear proliferation being a bad thing; and nuclear energy and weapons being something to be adamantly feared and wary of.

98 is insulting to fans. KOTM runs the risk of being really culturally offensive to the history and legacy of the franchise. There’s a big difference there. Yeah you got to see Godzilla fight Ghidorah, but when you remove the outer shell you start to see the film really has no interest in being a Godzilla film beyond having the monsters. It’s the complete polar opposite of 98.

The warped thing is that everyone is equating what I’m saying to “I like 98” or “98” is s good film. No, I think it’s a bad movie. I see it as a poor representation of Godzilla. But while I see 98 as a poor representation of the character, I see KOTM as something that acts completely antithetical to the entire Godzilla franchise, and greater Toho lexicon in general.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby edgaguirus » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:26 am

Dv-218 wrote:
ManuJM1997 wrote:Well, trying to lift things a bit away from the KOTM talk, well, unpopular opinion

While Ifukube's Godzilla theme is much more iconic and I like it and respect it, imo Michiru Oshima's theme is the best theme Godzilla has had

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JLh3IKhEeQ


Same. While I still love Ifukube's "Godzilla march" the most, Oshima's theme might be my favorite in the Millennium series, and my 2nd favorite in the franchise overall. I just love how powerful yet ominous and mysterious it sounds, fits with Godzilla's nature perfectly.


While Ifukube will always be my favorite, Oshima's work is effective and enjoyable. Her Godzilla theme plus the flashing lightning make a great moment for the millennium films.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Smuggers » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:50 am

JAGzilla wrote:And it isn't like there isn't a legitimate case to be made for nuclear weapons being a semi-good thing. For all the tragedy and horror of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan may well owe its current existence as an independent nation to the fact that wars between major powers are currently made impossible by Mutually Assured Destruction.

If you excuse atrocities because the world may have otherwise been different to how it is today then, well... to quote Serizawa, "This is a dangerous path!". I'm sure you could come up with reasons X Y and Z for how things like the holocaust, slavery or genocide of indigenous people were a "semi-good thing". You're likely a reasonable and logical person on all other accounts but this line of thinking just comes off as absolute lunacy to me, sorry.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby JAGzilla » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:32 pm

Smuggers wrote:
JAGzilla wrote:And it isn't like there isn't a legitimate case to be made for nuclear weapons being a semi-good thing. For all the tragedy and horror of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan may well owe its current existence as an independent nation to the fact that wars between major powers are currently made impossible by Mutually Assured Destruction.

If you excuse atrocities because the world may have otherwise been different to how it is today then, well... to quote Serizawa, "This is a dangerous path!". I'm sure you could come up with reasons X Y and Z for how things like the holocaust, slavery or genocide of indigenous people were a "semi-good thing". You're likely a reasonable and logical person on all other accounts but this line of thinking just comes off as absolute lunacy to me, sorry.


I'm not 'excusing' anything, I'm just pointing out that there hasn't been a major war since. We've come very close, sure, but... it hasn't happened. Anyway, I only bring this up because I felt like the movie was saying something about nukes as an enforcer of peace. Ghidorah comes in and starts a war, a nuclear weapon by way of Godzilla ends that war in spectacularly devastating fashion, all other major powers (Titans) promptly cease hostilities. Godzilla goes on to actively force everyone to stay in line through the credits. Character says "good thing he's on our side... for now", implying that this peacemaker could turn terrible enemy one day.

Again, execution wasn't great, but it's pretty plain, to me. From my one viewing so far, anyway.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:39 pm

JAGzilla wrote:
Smuggers wrote:
JAGzilla wrote:And it isn't like there isn't a legitimate case to be made for nuclear weapons being a semi-good thing. For all the tragedy and horror of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan may well owe its current existence as an independent nation to the fact that wars between major powers are currently made impossible by Mutually Assured Destruction.

If you excuse atrocities because the world may have otherwise been different to how it is today then, well... to quote Serizawa, "This is a dangerous path!". I'm sure you could come up with reasons X Y and Z for how things like the holocaust, slavery or genocide of indigenous people were a "semi-good thing". You're likely a reasonable and logical person on all other accounts but this line of thinking just comes off as absolute lunacy to me, sorry.


I'm not 'excusing' anything, I'm just pointing out thatthere hasn't been a major war since . We've come very close, sure, but... it hasn't happened. Anyway, I only bring this up because I felt like the movie was saying something about nukes as an enforcer of peace. Ghidorah comes in and starts a war, a nuclear weapon by way of Godzilla ends that war in spectacularly devastating fashion, all other major powers (Titans) promptly cease hostilities. Godzilla goes on to actively force everyone to stay in line through the credits. Character says "good thing he's on our side... for now", implying that this peacemaker could turn terrible enemy one day.

Again, execution wasn't great, but it's pretty plain, to me. From my one viewing so far, anyway.


There hasn`t been major wars in where predominately Americans have died and that you can easily rationalize being the "heroes" or "Good vs. Evil". There have been dozens of genocides, massacres, political uprisings, proxxy wars, legitimate wars etc... Some could argue the world is more violent then ever.

While I get what you`re saying, if it was the intent its horribly executed, and again not faithful to the core of the franchise.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby JAGzilla » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:43 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
There hasn`t been major wars in where predominately Americans have died and that you can easily rationalize being the "heroes" or "Good vs. Evil". There have been dozens of genocides, massacres, political uprisings, proxxy wars, legitimate wars etc... Some could argue the world is more violent then ever.


You know what I mean. Of course there have been civil and even regional wars, but nothing to approach the scale of the World Wars.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:05 pm

Smuggers wrote:I'm sure you could come up with reasons X Y and Z for how things like the holocaust, slavery or genocide of indigenous people were a "semi-good thing".


Hey, I've had it drilled into me that the best course of action would have been letting the holocaust and other forms of genocide run its course without interference. Most people, especially world leaders, seem to consider it a semi-good thing.
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Jaws happened


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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:55 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote:
Smuggers wrote:I'm sure you could come up with reasons X Y and Z for how things like the holocaust, slavery or genocide of indigenous people were a "semi-good thing".


Hey, I've had it drilled into me that the best course of action would have been letting the holocaust and other forms of genocide run its course without interference. Most people, especially world leaders, seem to consider it a semi-good thing.

what
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby shadowgigan » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:09 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote:
Smuggers wrote:I'm sure you could come up with reasons X Y and Z for how things like the holocaust, slavery or genocide of indigenous people were a "semi-good thing".


Hey, I've had it drilled into me that the best course of action would have been letting the holocaust and other forms of genocide run its course without interference. Most people, especially world leaders, seem to consider it a semi-good thing.


Are you saying the majority of world leaders consider the holocaust to have been a good thing? Or are you alluding to some non-interventionist arguments?
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby MikeSTZillak » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:42 pm

So to avoid talkin about politics, my unpopular Godzilla opinion is that the Cozzilla version of the original Godzilla is awesome.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Godzillian » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:45 pm

You just never know what's going to pop up on old TK lol
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Living Corpse » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:14 pm

Am I having a stroke?
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby MikeSTZillak » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:43 pm

Living Corpse wrote:Am I having a stroke?

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby goji89 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:09 pm

Keep it classy TK, keep it classy.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Godzilla165 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:48 pm

... So, unpopular opinion time again. The more that I look at Grand King Ghidorah, the more I find myself preferring how Ghidorah looks in G v K. The heads and wings on Grand look cool, yeah, but the weirdly long humanoid legs, short and fat tails, and the oddly shaped body as a whole has begun to knock the design for me.

I look at Heisei Ghidorah in the Godzilla movie counterpart and have started to appreciate the more balanced and natural looking design more, recently. It’s a design that, whilst still a bit plain jane, flows better to me.
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