The Godzilla Cringe Thread

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Executive Hamster
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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

Post by Executive Hamster »

There is a lot of information out there that seems conflicting on Godzilla 1998, and I cannot say for 100% certainty what when wrong, but based on what I have read, I have come to the conclusion that the failings of the film are pretty much entirely the fault of corporate Hollywood, not anyone directly involved in the film. Not only that, I also find that the people who think this film is some sort of abomination that completely disrespects the source material probably dont know the history of the film very well. People tend to blame Emmerich, and to an extent that can be true, but I find that to oversimplify things. Ultimately, he was pushed by execs into making a movie he didn't want to make about a franchise he had no interest in. I'm not sure anyone could make a good movie come out of that situation. Dean Devlin has often been mischaracterized as being similar to Emmerich, but its quite the contrary. Devlin has stated many times that he was a huge fan of Godzilla growing up. He had huge respect for the franchise and the character. Similarly, Patrick Tatopoulus, who generally isnt blamed that often but did create the controversial design, was of the philosophy that just making the Japanese Godzilla again would be disrespectful, and that it would be more respectful to the character to completely remake it instead of trying to copy the original. Yes, that is probably one of the most obsurd ways of thinking I have ever heard, but the point is that he never intended to disrespect the source material. Nobody involved did at any point. Their worst crime was indifference. And obviously that is worthy of criticism, but hatred? I find that a bit overzealous.

Toho is also blamed sometimes for not stepping in and keeping the train from derailing, but given how long the film was in development, by the end of it, it seems they didn''t have much of a choice how the movie went. One other thing. People always claim that DeBount's Godzilla would have been a better and more faithful film. I disagree. Obviously we will never know if the film would be better. But Id argue that Godzilla 1998 stays truer to the character than the DeBount script. He's a giant animal born from radiation, not some mystical beast created by Atlanteans.

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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Executive Hamster wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 4:22 pm One other thing. People always claim that DeBount's Godzilla would have been a better and more faithful film. I disagree. Obviously we will never know if the film would be better. But Id argue that Godzilla 1998 stays truer to the character than the DeBount script. He's a giant animal born from radiation, not some mystical beast created by Atlanteans.
It might have been someone on this board that first pointed it out to me, but France's nuclear tests in the Pacific was actually relevant in the late 90s.
https://www.nytimes.com/1996/01/30/worl ... tests.html
I'm willing to bet DeBont's would have been a better Godzilla movie at the end of the day but points to the G98 squad for trying for relevancy I suppose.
Last edited by Major sssspielberg! on Mon May 17, 2021 4:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

Post by tbeasley »

I'll take something that embraces the more pulpy fun sci-fi aspects of the character (the 94 film was essentially a 60s Showa or 90s Heisei movie with a Hollywood budget) over something paying lip-service to the 'serious tone and message' of the original and missing the point of everything else. Also doesn't help that Devlin and co were barely even able to praise the original ("When dealing with a 200ft lizard the comedy is inherent," etc.)

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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

Post by Thegarbagemonster »

tbeasley wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 1:18 pm This keeps getting repeated and retold, I guess because people like the idea of Cameron being an asshole, but it isn't true. Giger wasn't involved largely because of Poltergeist II, and when he did reach out to Cameron, he eventually (again, because of production/scheduling) received this letter where Cameron explained himself.

Giger understandably had mixed feelings on Aliens at first (he came around to it more and more overtime), but always acknowledged it as technically well made and approved of the designs, especially the Queen. (The Queen and Warrior Aliens are easily the most faithful to Giger's original design and artwork of all the sequels.)
Hmm, interesting, I'll look more into this. Thanks!
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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

Post by cloverfan98 »

Executive Hamster wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 4:22 pm But Id argue that Godzilla 1998 stays truer to the character than the DeBount script. He's a giant animal born from radiation, not some mystical beast created by Atlanteans.
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I've been saying this for a while now!

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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

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cloverfan98 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 9:18 pm
Executive Hamster wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 4:22 pm But Id argue that Godzilla 1998 stays truer to the character than the DeBount script. He's a giant animal born from radiation, not some mystical beast created by Atlanteans.
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I've been saying this for a while now!
I guess it is all about preference and semantics. Do you want the ORIGIN and background of the character to be the same...or do you want the appearance, behavior, and characteristics of the character to be the same? The "origin" is usually, what? A few lines of dialogue? The EXECUTION of the character kinda sorta....makes or breaks the whole friggin film.

This is where I get into a bit of a confusion over the whole "OMG Shin Godzilla isn't even Godzilla" thing...

Radioactive animal...but one is a giant iguana, who flees from attacks and is easily killed by missiles and has no atomic breath

vs

Micro-organism that grows and evolves from a very small size into a Godzilla-shaped abomination....but he looks like Godzilla, stands upright, sounds like Godzilla, stomps around like Godzilla, and has an atomic breath and is pretty much indestructible when fighting against traditional military like Godzilla always is.

I mean....if you are just going to take a single line of "radioactive animal" and use that...then go against DECADES of what the character is, how it acts, and what it can do....just to fall back on 'but the liner note of the origin is the same!" then you can take the origin and shove it. I mean, a giant tentacle monster could have the origin of "giant animal born from radiation"...and somehow THAT would be more 'true' to Godzilla than...ya know, something like in the 1994 script?

For all I care....a meteor could crash onto the planet, and an alien creature could hatch out of it....and if it grows into a reptilian that stands up on two feet, has the dorsal plates, and looks, sounds, and acts like Godzilla with all of his staple characteristics....then I'm okay with that.

I don't care if he is an irradiated iguana, or advanced micro-organism, or alien creation, or genetic aberration, or an ancient mega-fauna...the "where SPECIFICALLY does this thing come from and how SPECIFICALLY did it come to be" is usually of little consequence to the events of the film itself.

That thing better look right, act right, and have all of the right traits if you want me to believe it is Godzilla.

It's like saying the 'creature on an island' origin is more important to King Kong than being a giant gorilla with some type of connection or affinity to a human woman. Again...is a giant squid from "skull island" who is taken to New York and gets killed more "King Kong" than say...a creature grown in a lab who IS a giant gorilla monster and has the whole 'beauty and beast' element of his character?

Any number of token giant monsters can be created by radiation, Godzilla is Godzilla because of the things that are unique and specific to him. The design, the behavior, the abilities.
Last edited by Chrispy_G on Tue May 18, 2021 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

Post by JAGzilla »

Chrispy_G wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 9:51 pm
cloverfan98 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 9:18 pm
Executive Hamster wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 4:22 pm But Id argue that Godzilla 1998 stays truer to the character than the DeBount script. He's a giant animal born from radiation, not some mystical beast created by Atlanteans.
Image

I've been saying this for a while now!
I guess it is all about preference and semantics. Do you want the ORIGIN and background of the character to be the same...or do you want the appearance, behavior, and characteristics of the character to be the same? The "origin" is usually, what? A few lines of dialogue? The EXECUTION of the character kinda sorta....makes or breaks the whole friggin film.

This is where I get into a bit of a confusion over the whole "OMG Shin Godzilla isn't even Godzilla" thing...

Radioactive animal...but one is a giant iguana, who flees from attacks and is easily killed by missiles and has no atomic breath

vs

Micro-organism that grows and evolves from a very small size into a Godzilla-shaped abomination....but he looks like Godzilla, stands upright, sounds like Godzilla, stomps around like Godzilla, and has an atomic breath and is pretty much indestructible when fighting against traditional military like Godzilla always is.

I mean....if you are just going to take a single line of "radioactive animal" and use that...then go against DECADES of what the character is, how it acts, and what it can do....just to fall back on 'but the liner note of the origin is the same!" then you can take the origin and shove it. I mean, a giant tentacle monster could have the origin of "giant animal born from radiation"...and somehow THAT would be more 'true' to Godzilla than...ya know, something like in the 1994 script?

For all I care....a meteor could crash onto the planet, and an alien creature could hatch out of it....and if it grows into a reptilian that stands up on two feet, has the dorsal plates, and looks, sounds, and acts like Godzilla with all of his staple characteristics....then I'm okay with that.

I don't care if he is an irradiated iguana, or advanced micro-organism, or alien creation, or genetic aberration, or an ancient mega-fauna...the "where SPECIFICALLY does this thing come from and how SPECIFICALLY did it come to be" is usually of little consequence to the events of the film itself.

That thing better look right, act right, and have all of the right traits if you want me to believe it is Godzilla.
:applause: :thumbsup:

Origin is important, especially when it's rooted in tragic real world events like Godzilla's traditionally is, but first and foremost the character needs to look and act the part.
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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

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Chrispy_G wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 9:51 pm
cloverfan98 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 9:18 pm
Executive Hamster wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 4:22 pm But Id argue that Godzilla 1998 stays truer to the character than the DeBount script. He's a giant animal born from radiation, not some mystical beast created by Atlanteans.
Image

I've been saying this for a while now!
I guess it is all about preference and semantics. Do you want the ORIGIN and background of the character to be the same...or do you want the appearance, behavior, and characteristics of the character to be the same? The "origin" is usually, what? A few lines of dialogue? The EXECUTION of the character kinda sorta....makes or breaks the whole friggin film.

This is where I get into a bit of a confusion over the whole "OMG Shin Godzilla isn't even Godzilla" thing...

Radioactive animal...but one is a giant iguana, who flees from attacks and is easily killed by missiles and has no atomic breath

vs

Micro-organism that grows and evolves from a very small size into a Godzilla-shaped abomination....but he looks like Godzilla, stands upright, sounds like Godzilla, stomps around like Godzilla, and has an atomic breath and is pretty much indestructible when fighting against traditional military like Godzilla always is.

I mean....if you are just going to take a single line of "radioactive animal" and use that...then go against DECADES of what the character is, how it acts, and what it can do....just to fall back on 'but the liner note of the origin is the same!" then you can take the origin and shove it. I mean, a giant tentacle monster could have the origin of "giant animal born from radiation"...and somehow THAT would be more 'true' to Godzilla than...ya know, something like in the 1994 script?

For all I care....a meteor could crash onto the planet, and an alien creature could hatch out of it....and if it grows into a reptilian that stands up on two feet, has the dorsal plates, and looks, sounds, and acts like Godzilla with all of his staple characteristics....then I'm okay with that.

I don't care if he is an irradiated iguana, or advanced micro-organism, or alien creation, or genetic aberration, or an ancient mega-fauna...the "where SPECIFICALLY does this thing come from and how SPECIFICALLY did it come to be" is usually of little consequence to the events of the film itself.

That thing better look right, act right, and have all of the right traits if you want me to believe it is Godzilla.

It's like saying the 'creature on an island' origin is more important to King Kong than being a giant gorilla with some type of connection or affinity to a human woman. Again...is a giant squid from "skull island" who is taken to New York and gets killed more "King Kong" than say...a creature grown in a lab who IS a giant gorilla monster and has the whole 'beauty and beast' element of his character?

Any number of token giant monsters can be created by radiation, Godzilla is Godzilla because of the things that are unique and specific to him. The design, the behavior, the abilities.
This, but as an aside, Shin wasn't a microscopic organism, he's a mixotrophic organism.
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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

Post by edgaguirus »

Agreed. I don't mind redesigning a character, but how you portray that character is important. You could call Godzilla giant reptile born from radiation, but that description also applies to The Beast and The Giant Behemoth. How Godzilla acts and is portrayed is what makes Godzilla Godzilla.
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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

Post by tbeasley »

Shin isn't a colony of microorganisms, but well said.

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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

Post by shadowgigan »

Never gotten the hype behind DuckZilla or the script. Im glad we got 1998 and wouldn't change it for the world.

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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

Post by godjacob »

I favor the 94 script/design simply because it seemed like those people didn't have a burning hatred of the source material like the people who made the 98 Godzilla.
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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

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I'd love to see the Debont Godzilla and all the great concepts, with Stan Winston at the helm of the production it could have been absolutely incredible. But at the same time when you factor in the butterfly effect that would mean we'd lose the entire Millenium series, Monsterverse series and likely even Shin at least in any "recognizable" form they would be something entirely different and what they could be is hard to say presuming they even come to be in the first place

As I'm an ultra-safe person I will stick with the present we know, lol. I cannot forsake a generation of Godzilla movies even for the sake of one that looked really cool, when we do not know what said future of the Godzilla series could be if that happened

So yeah I'm happy things went the way they did, everything works out. We still have the concepts and plans to look and wonder what could have been. Maybe one day the Debont script will see new life
Last edited by ROMG4 on Wed May 19, 2021 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

Post by Legion1979 »

I'm sure this has been discussed before here but since I've been gone for years...

Some of the stuff the editor of G-Fan has been saying and writing for the past couple years.

I mean, yikes!

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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

Post by Gigantis »

Legion1979 wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 9:19 am Some of the stuff the editor of G-Fan has been saying and writing for the past couple years.

I mean, yikes!
Oh yeah, we've had an entire two or three pages discussing how dumb G-Fan is a good couple months ago. I think everyone agreed it was freaking.. awful lol

Also, i've heard quite a bit about you from older members Legion. Welcome back!
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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

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Legion1979 wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 9:19 am I'm sure this has been discussed before here but since I've been gone for years...

Some of the stuff the editor of G-Fan has been saying and writing for the past couple years.

I mean, yikes!
Holy shit, Legion's back. I did one hell of a double-take there.
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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

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KK42 wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 9:31 am
Legion1979 wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 9:19 am I'm sure this has been discussed before here but since I've been gone for years...

Some of the stuff the editor of G-Fan has been saying and writing for the past couple years.

I mean, yikes!
Holy poop, Legion's back. I did one hell of a double-take there.
He has arisen.

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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

Post by mikelcho »

ROMG4 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 2:36 am I'd love to see the Debont Godzilla and all the great concepts, with Stan Winston at the helm of the production it could have been absolutely incredible. But at the same time when you factor in the butterfly effect that would mean we'd lose the entire Millenium series, Monsterverse series and likely even Shin at least in any "recognizable" form they would be something entirely different and what they could be is hard to say presuming they even come to be in the first place

As I'm an ultra-safe person I will stick with the present we know, lol. I cannot forsake a generation of Godzilla movies even for the sake of one that looked really cool, when we do not know what said future of the Godzilla series could be if that happened

So yeah I'm happy things went the way they did, everything works out. We still have the concepts and plans to look and wonder what could have been. Maybe one day the Debont script will see new life
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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

Post by Voyager »

Wasn’t this the cringe thread?
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Re: The Godzilla Cringe Thread

Post by ROMG4 »

goji89 wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 10:14 am
KK42 wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 9:31 am
Legion1979 wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 9:19 am I'm sure this has been discussed before here but since I've been gone for years...

Some of the stuff the editor of G-Fan has been saying and writing for the past couple years.

I mean, yikes!
Holy poop, Legion's back. I did one hell of a double-take there.
He has arisen.
And how could this be? For he is the Kwisatz Haderach!

Also welcome back!
Legion1979 wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 9:19 am I'm sure this has been discussed before here but since I've been gone for years...

Some of the stuff the editor of G-Fan has been saying and writing for the past couple years.

I mean, yikes!
I haven't been able to read G-Fan for a few years but I've definitely been hearing about the strangeness and absolutely weird stuff though I definitely need to refresh myself on it since its somewhat of a blur for me
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