Creating New Iconic Monsters

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Marciosss
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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

Post by Marciosss »

Godzillas child has more Godzilla movies than some of big Five:
1. Son of
2. DAM
3. Revenge
4. Mecha2
5. SpaceGodzilla
6. Destroyah
7. Godzilla98
8. GFW
9. Planet of monsters
+if you count 10..Shin Godzilla

Ghidorah:
1. Ghidorah
2. Monster zero
3. DAM
4. Gigancie
5. Ghidorah 91
6. GMK
7. Planet eater
8. Kotm
Even if you count Kaiser is still less

Mothra
1.MvG
2. Ghidorah
3. Ebirah
4. Dam
5. GvM
6. Gmk
7. Tokyo s.o.s
8. GFW
9. Planet eater
10. Kotm

Mechagodzilla
1. Mecha74
2. Terror
3. Mecha 2
4. Mecha 3
5. Tokio s.o.s
6. City at The endge of battle
7. RPO
8. GvK

I miss something?

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Jeff-Goldblum2
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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

Post by Jeff-Goldblum2 »

They keep reusing them, keep making them a big deal as foes or friends to Godzilla and they market them more heavily than the other monsters.

So the big 5 will remain that way if they stick to that formula.

Major fans still have strong affection for creative monsters like Gigan and Hedorah.

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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

Post by edgaguirus »

Moth wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:30 pm Technically we already have a 'Big 6'
Minilla/Godzilla Junior. I guess more the concept of a baby godzilla is part of the big 6?
I think the offspring are too inconsistent to be the number 6. Minya, the most consistent, has only been in 4 films. Meanwhile, the big 5 have had more appearances, and, despite various changes, have been more consistent in portrayal.
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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

Post by Legion1979 »

Again, there's more to monsters becoming iconic than how many movies they appeared in. Mechagodzilla was considered a top tier monsters by the 80s, and he had only appeared on 2 films.

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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

Post by miguelnuva »

Legion1979 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:40 pm Again, there's more to monsters becoming iconic than how many movies they appeared in. Mechagodzilla was considered a top tier monsters by the 80s, and he had only appeared on 2 films.
MechaGodzilla was robot Godzilla, it's hard to mess up a character like especially in Japan where kaiju and mechas are cool. I'm still surprised Toho didn't try at least one solo Kiryu film due to how popular Mechas are.

The big 5 boil down to dinosaurs, dragons, a robot dinosaur and a Moth goddess. Mothra to me is the only shock as far a lighting in a bottle for being profitable.
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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

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miguelnuva wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:50 pm MechaGodzilla was robot Godzilla, it's hard to mess up a character like especially in Japan where kaiju and mechas are cool. I'm still surprised Toho didn't try at least one solo Kiryu film due to how popular Mechas are.
Masaaki Tezuka did submit a Kiryu solo draft back in 2005. But because the franchise was in such a big slump at the time Toho passed on it.
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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

Post by ShinGojira14 »

miguelnuva wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:12 pm In today's environment A monster tied to Global warming or Biotechnology I feel could catch on if done right. Especially after the pandemic you could create a monster just as scary as Godzilla, maybe it is made in a lab and escapes and when humans attack it it's blood leaves behind an airborne virus?

Now for a cheap option I was talking with friend about. If Toho decided that Shin Godzilla was now it's own thing and separate from Godzilla, shin could theoretically be the 6th kaiju. Shin is a version of Godzilla but when you think about it Shin can be almost as far removed from Godzilla as MechaGodzilla and Shin could serve as the Evil Ultraman, Venom or Bizzaro of the franchise.

Toho could reveal next week the 70th anniversary film is Shin Godzilla vs Godzilla for example.

If they got Anno back or someone of the caliber they branching off Shin Godzilla from Godzilla could even allow its own many franchise. Maybe a Shin film comes out where the tail humans are killing people and trying to thaw Shin out for example?
Please, good HEAVEN, no.

Just...no.

Shin Godzilla isn't a different character. He's still Godzilla. Done deal.
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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

Post by miguelnuva »

ShinGojira14 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:21 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:12 pm In today's environment A monster tied to Global warming or Biotechnology I feel could catch on if done right. Especially after the pandemic you could create a monster just as scary as Godzilla, maybe it is made in a lab and escapes and when humans attack it it's blood leaves behind an airborne virus?

Now for a cheap option I was talking with friend about. If Toho decided that Shin Godzilla was now it's own thing and separate from Godzilla, shin could theoretically be the 6th kaiju. Shin is a version of Godzilla but when you think about it Shin can be almost as far removed from Godzilla as MechaGodzilla and Shin could serve as the Evil Ultraman, Venom or Bizzaro of the franchise.

Toho could reveal next week the 70th anniversary film is Shin Godzilla vs Godzilla for example.

If they got Anno back or someone of the caliber they branching off Shin Godzilla from Godzilla could even allow its own many franchise. Maybe a Shin film comes out where the tail humans are killing people and trying to thaw Shin out for example?
Please, good HEAVEN, no.

Just...no.

Shin Godzilla isn't a different character. He's still Godzilla. Done deal.
He is the same character right now but he is different enough that he could be spun off. Toho is already playing with the idea in Gojiban as Shin is Godzilla's brother.
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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

Post by ShinGojira14 »

miguelnuva wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:03 pm
ShinGojira14 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:21 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:12 pm In today's environment A monster tied to Global warming or Biotechnology I feel could catch on if done right. Especially after the pandemic you could create a monster just as scary as Godzilla, maybe it is made in a lab and escapes and when humans attack it it's blood leaves behind an airborne virus?

Now for a cheap option I was talking with friend about. If Toho decided that Shin Godzilla was now it's own thing and separate from Godzilla, shin could theoretically be the 6th kaiju. Shin is a version of Godzilla but when you think about it Shin can be almost as far removed from Godzilla as MechaGodzilla and Shin could serve as the Evil Ultraman, Venom or Bizzaro of the franchise.

Toho could reveal next week the 70th anniversary film is Shin Godzilla vs Godzilla for example.

If they got Anno back or someone of the caliber they branching off Shin Godzilla from Godzilla could even allow its own many franchise. Maybe a Shin film comes out where the tail humans are killing people and trying to thaw Shin out for example?
Please, good HEAVEN, no.

Just...no.

Shin Godzilla isn't a different character. He's still Godzilla. Done deal.
He is the same character right now but he is different enough that he could be spun off. Toho is already playing with the idea in Gojiban as Shin is Godzilla's brother.
Dude, Gojiban is a sitcom with multiple Godzillas. Uncle Zilla is still a Godzilla.

Shin Godzilla isn't "different enough that he could be his own character." He's just another of many incarnations of the same character. Shin is just a word in the title of the movie, and fans simply refer to him as such when differentiating him from other Godzilla incarnations. Just like Godzilla Earth. In-universe, there's no such thing as Godzilla Earth; he's just Godzilla. And Godzilla Earth is every bit as different from all other Godzilla incarnations as Shin is, and he's still the same character.

In-film, there's no 'Shin Godzilla.' He's just Godzilla. Period.

And he'll never be a different character.
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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

Post by JAGzilla »

Well... we do have the Zilla precedent. Granted that was a different situation where GINO was an almost universally hated insult to Godzilla whereas Shin is a massive, beloved success, but still. It's not impossible.

It really does not need to happen, though. At all.
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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

Post by miguelnuva »

ShinGojira14 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:02 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:03 pm
ShinGojira14 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:21 pm

Please, good HEAVEN, no.

Just...no.

Shin Godzilla isn't a different character. He's still Godzilla. Done deal.
He is the same character right now but he is different enough that he could be spun off. Toho is already playing with the idea in Gojiban as Shin is Godzilla's brother.
Dude, Gojiban is a sitcom with multiple Godzillas. Uncle Zilla is still a Godzilla.

Shin Godzilla isn't "different enough that he could be his own character." He's just another of many incarnations of the same character. Shin is just a word in the title of the movie, and fans simply refer to him as such when differentiating him from other Godzilla incarnations. Just like Godzilla Earth. In-universe, there's no such thing as Godzilla Earth; he's just Godzilla. And Godzilla Earth is every bit as different from all other Godzilla incarnations as Shin is, and he's still the same character.

In-film, there's no 'Shin Godzilla.' He's just Godzilla. Period.

And he'll never be a different character.
I know Gojiban is a sticom I used it as an example of Toho experimenting with Shin as a separate person from Godzilla. As for Shin not different enough he is just as different from Godzilla as Venom is from Spiderman or Bizzaro from Superman. He would be the evil twin monster if Toho spint him off.

Godzilla 98 was vastly different from traditional Godzilla and Shin is Godzilla turned up to 11 he is different enough that he and Godzilla can stand side by side if Toho wanted. I know Shin is just the title of the film just like Godzilla Earth is just a title.

I also never said he would be a character I said if Toho wanted to create a new star kaiju they could cheat an announce Shin as separate from traditional Godzilla.
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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

Post by Tyrant_Lizard_King »

I think the time of creating iconic monsters is gone. The closest we've gotten in modern media is Clover and he's still pretty niche. Modern filmmaking landscape just doesn't really lend itself to that kind of thing anymore. Everything is consumed so quickly and quickly forgotten. Just look at all the monster movies in recent memory. I guarantee the average moviegoer barely even remembers Rampage, Pacific Rim, or even G14. Hell I bet half the people who saw GvK didn't even realize KSI or King of the Monsters were even a thing.
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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

Post by Legion1979 »

Yes, spot on!

And I think something a lot of people aren't getting is that it's not something you can retroactively change by forcing it somehow.

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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

Post by edgaguirus »

Adding a number 6 is something kaiju fans think about, but you are right about average movie goers. They like shiny, exploding objects, which these films provide, but the monster genre itself doesn't seem as popular with these average viewers.
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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

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I think a good candidate would be a monster made from combining the DNA of Godzilla and Mothra. Two of their most popular monsters melded into one.

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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

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LegendZilla wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:56 pm I think a good candidate would be a monster made from combining the DNA of Godzilla and Mothra. Two of their most popular monsters melded into one.
No it needs to be something brand new. Honestly Toho should try a monster separate from Godzilla and then later if the monster is a money make then you hype of the versus film.
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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

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miguelnuva wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:04 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:56 pm I think a good candidate would be a monster made from combining the DNA of Godzilla and Mothra. Two of their most popular monsters melded into one.
No it needs to be something brand new. Honestly Toho should try a monster separate from Godzilla and then later if the monster is a money make then you hype of the versus film.
Something brand new has never been truly successful since the 70's. It would still be a new monster nonetheless.

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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

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miguelnuva wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:04 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:56 pm I think a good candidate would be a monster made from combining the DNA of Godzilla and Mothra. Two of their most popular monsters melded into one.
No it needs to be something brand new. Honestly Toho should try a monster separate from Godzilla and then later if the monster is a money make then you hype of the versus film.
If anything, melding two familiar things into one should be a selling point. I understand it may sound too gimmicky to some, but we’ll never know unless the idea is actually played out.
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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

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I think a big quantifier is whether we are talking iconic relative to the Godzilla franchise, or movie monsters in general. In that case, as Tyrant Lizard King stated, I highly doubt we will ever get anything as iconic as Godzilla, Kong, or Mothra. His example of Clover was pretty spot on.

Within the Godzilla franchise, Toho side, up until Shin it's been totally stagnant, pretty much since maybe Destoroyah. Conceptually Orga is cool, but film wise it was never intended to be a big brute. Megagurius barely even counts as it was just an extension of the Meganulon.

While I like the designs of Godzilla SP, and I like Salunga a lot (I hope he comes back), a lot of recent new monsters are sort of really minor. It still feels like we haven't gotten a "proper" addition to the Godzilla rogues gallery since Megagurius (easy to imagine in comics, videogames etc..). Sarunga is coming close, but who knows. And again, Sarunga is really just a redo of Gabara...

MV side, it's similar, but not as bleak.I think the MUTOs actually HAD a chance to become pretty serious Godzilla antagonists/memorable monsters, but I feel like the original monsterverse creations have been overshadowed by KG and MG.

In general, the Godzilla franchise is in desperate need of Godzilla to have a new foe that is memorable, and isn't a rehash of older monsters.
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Re: Creating New Iconic Monsters

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LegendZilla wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:56 pm I think a good candidate would be a monster made from combining the DNA of Godzilla and Mothra. Two of their most popular monsters melded into one.
That sounds like the plot of The Fly films. I’m guessing it would be the 1986 version of The Fly rather than the 1958 version since putting Mothra’s head on Godzilla’s body wouldn’t do it any good. ;-)

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