Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

[LegendZilla]

It is evident that you feel very strongly about this matter, specifically that you very passionately favor a continuity-driven approach. And you post about this, a lot.

As this is a discussion board, posting any extreme stance naturally invites mitigating counterargument, in this case defense of the decision to eschew continuity. Those responses are not motivated by others being especially beholden to rebooting, but by your being so beholden to continuity.

Because your feelings on the matter are so severe, you project that intensity onto those offering counterpoints. I believe you read them as being more passionate about the subject than they are because you see in them a reflection of your own passion on the subject. But from everything I've seen (and I do speak from experience here, as one of the people who tends to debate you on the subject), that is a false impression.

When it comes down to it, as fans, we want to like these movies. When you express what reads as a bias which limits your enjoyment of some of them, people respond by offering you an alternate perspective, an avenue through which you might find some of that enjoyment you are missing. It's not about opposing continuity (honestly, it doesn't matter what Western Godzilla fans support or oppose in the series, because we have no meaningful input on the development and production of the movies); it's about taking the movies as they are, reading them according to intent and context, and finding the best means of appreciating content which we could not change if we wanted to.

I know this is a little late like the post of yours I'm quoting, but firstly I want to say that your statements are well-thought out. If you don't mind, may I further elaborate on my stance? Since you provided an alternative perspective for me to look out, I will like to try doing the same.

[eabaker]

It is evident that you feel very strongly about this matter, specifically that you very passionately favor a continuity-driven approach. And you post about this, a lot.

As this is a discussion board, posting any extreme stance naturally invites mitigating counterargument, in this case defense of the decision to eschew continuity. Those responses are not motivated by others being especially beholden to rebooting, but by your being so beholden to continuity.

Because your feelings on the matter are so severe, you project that intensity onto those offering counterpoints. I believe you read them as being more passionate about the subject than they are because you see in them a reflection of your own passion on the subject. But from everything I've seen (and I do speak from experience here, as one of the people who tends to debate you on the subject), that is a false impression.

When it comes down to it, as fans, we want to like these movies. When you express what reads as a bias which limits your enjoyment of some of them, people respond by offering you an alternate perspective, an avenue through which you might find some of that enjoyment you are missing. It's not about opposing continuity (honestly, it doesn't matter what Western Godzilla fans support or oppose in the series, because we have no meaningful input on the development and production of the movies); it's about taking the movies as they are, reading them according to intent and context, and finding the best means of appreciating content which we could not change if we wanted to.

I know this is a little late like the post of yours I'm quoting, but firstly I want to say that your statements are well-thought out. If you don't mind, may I further elaborate on my stance? Since you provided an alternative perspective for me to look out, I will like to try doing the same.

Of course. You're always welcome to express your perspective.

[Terasawa]

That's (essentially) the same master that had been around since the early-mid 1980s and that DVD is probably the best presentation of it (I'm not sure how the Laserdisc measures up against it). OTOH, the New World/Starmaker master of Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla was really good for its time (and still kinda is, despite being cropped to 1.33), so you would have encountered the same difficulty watching ToMG & ease of watching GvMG even as far back as 1988.

I have the Laserdisc, but haven't watched it in about 25 years, and haven't had a Laserdic player for nearly 20 years. Basically, I remember it looking better than the VHS version, but not any better than my Simitar DVD.

Thanks for the input! IIRC, Classic Media's 2002 releases tinkered with the contrast of the UPA masters, but otherwise (and except for a title card difference) I imagine the LD should be quite comparable. I think ToMG and KotM were the two Simitar discs that weren't painfully compressed, so that disc should compare somewhat favorably too -- not that anyone's really aching to watch any of these releases today.

Paramount's 1994 VHS and Laserdisc of ToMG had a different title from the primary UPA master ('02 Classic Media first, '94 Paramount tape second). The 1980s Paramount release didn't even have a title card (just the video freeze frame of Mechagodzilla) and some copies of the '94 re-release (backstock for the earlier release?) don't have one either... but that's quite the digression from unpopular Godzilla opinions.

[Legion1979]

I ain't complaining. I love this info.

[eabaker]

-- not that anyone's really aching to watch any of these releases today.

I watched that Simitar DVD just last year - one of four different versions of the movie I watched for podcast prep! I mean, I only did it because that was my only source for the Bob Conn cut, and I was making notes on the specific ways in which the movie was butchered, and I'd never watch it for pleasure - but still!

[Jeff-Goldblum2]

Just rewatched Terror of Mechagodzilla.

I do love the movie just as much as I love Katsura.

Although I never liked the shots where Mechagodzilla and Titanosaurus would appear to sink into the ground and only appear at building height from the upper chest up.

[Legion1979]

Yeah those shots are a little wonky, but I appreciate the effort to get the monsters into the same shot as the fleeing citizens and make the attack a lot more intimate. Definitely A LOT better than what Godzilla vs Gigan or Godzilla vs Megalon did. I think Terror needs more appreciation for trying so hard to do what the other 70 films seemed to go out of their way to avoid.

And to be honest I mind MG and Titano "walking on their knees" through a city less than I mind lazy Heisei mattes where Godzilla is behind a foreground element but looks like he's thousands of feet tall.

[Maritonic]

Those shots are definitely a bit awkward, but I love how imposing they make Mechagodzilla and Titanosaurus. As Legion said, the attack feels much more intimate. It makes it feel like they're towering over the streets.

[godjacob]

I'll never get over the shot of Titanosaurus in the mountains as he leaves the first fight with Godzilla which implies he is like thousands of feet tall lol

[Spuro]

And to be honest I mind MG and Titano "walking on their knees" through a city less than I mind lazy Heisei mattes where Godzilla is behind a foreground element but looks like he's thousands of feet tall.

I'll be honest, I don't even remember those shots in the Heisei films.

[Legion1979]

And to be honest I mind MG and Titano "walking on their knees" through a city less than I mind lazy Heisei mattes where Godzilla is behind a foreground element but looks like he's thousands of feet tall.

I'll be honest, I don't even remember those shots in the Heisei films.

One is from Godzilla VS Biollante, with Godzilla looking over a mountain at a power plant late in the movie. The other is from Godzilla VS Mechagodzilla at the end of Godzilla's city rampage and is the last shot we see of him about midway through the film.

[JAGzilla]

Yeah, I remember the Biollante one. MvG has one like that, too, when Godzilla passes through a village after the main battle is over. He's looming over a hill and looks disproportionately huge.

[kaijukurt]

My personal unpopular opinions:

- I found the The Return of Godzilla mostly slow and uninteresting with its main saving graces being the miniature work and some Cold War tension scenes. It didn’t help that the characters don’t seem to react too much to the fact that Godzilla is coming back after decades.

- I really like the Polygon Trilogy and I prefer it over Singular Point. Haruo starts off like a lot of other franchise protagonists but becomes a very interesting character by the trilogy’s end. I also appreciated the trilogy’s perspectives on the classic man vs nature theme and how our societies/cultures are deeply linked to the monsters we fear or worship, like a “You reap what you sow” theme. Living in a society where even academics are still strongly superstitious and believe in folkloric spirits, I love it when the franchise taps into the cultural aspect of giant monsters.

[godjacob]

My personal unpopular opinions:

- I found the The Return of Godzilla mostly slow and uninteresting with its main saving graces being the miniature work and some Cold War tension scenes. It didn’t help that the characters don’t seem to react too much to the fact that Godzilla is coming back after decades.

- I really like the Polygon Trilogy and I prefer it over Singular Point. Haruo starts off like a lot of other franchise protagonists but becomes a very interesting character by the trilogy’s end. I also appreciated the trilogy’s perspectives on the classic man vs nature theme and how our societies/cultures are deeply linked to the monsters we fear or worship, like a “You reap what you sow” theme. Living in a society where even academics are still strongly superstitious and believe in folkloric spirits, I love it when the franchise taps into the cultural aspect of giant monsters.

I give you props for having a truly unpopular one for the second opinion, even if making me read it made me want to violently hit something lol

[miguelnuva]

I've just came to the realization that as a result of the rules Toho gave COD and Legendary concerning Godzilla I don't know if I'll like any Reiwa films going forward.

Godzilla has never been a very a character that can communicate or talk like humans can but he was very expressive in his films. I can't get behind the soulless expressionless version Toho seems to want to create in modern times.

[eabaker]

I've just came to the realization that as a result ofnthe rules Toho gave COD and Legendary concerning Godzilla I don't know if I'll like any Reiwa films going forward.

Godzilla has never been a very a character that can communicate or talk like humans can but he was very expressive in his films. I can't get behind the soulless expressionless version Toho seems to want to create in modern times.

Limitations Toho puts on a license agreement do not necessarily reflect limits they put on their own productions.

[Spuro]

To continue a conversation from the KKvG thread, just because a movie is made with children in mind doesn’t absolve it of criticism. People are completely correct that Godzilla’s Revenge isn’t trying to be anything more than what it is… but whether it sends an appropriate message to kids, or is a well-made film, is another matter entirely.

[miguelnuva]

I've just came to the realization that as a result ofnthe rules Toho gave COD and Legendary concerning Godzilla I don't know if I'll like any Reiwa films going forward.

Godzilla has never been a very a character that can communicate or talk like humans can but he was very expressive in his films. I can't get behind the soulless expressionless version Toho seems to want to create in modern times.

Limitations Toho puts on a license agreement do not necessarily reflect limits they put on their own productions.

I'll believe when I see because as of now all three Reiwa Godzillas have followed these rules they have set up. I see it more as Toho wants Godzilla to act a certain way across the board more so then this is what they want others to due to protect Godzilla's image.

I would love for it to be the case where you are correct eabaker and these are just licensing agreement deals and not just how Toho wants Godzilla to be presented.

[Legion1979]

To continue a conversation from the KKvG thread, just because a movie is made with children in mind doesn’t absolve it of criticism. People are completely correct that Godzilla’s Revenge isn’t trying to be anything more than what it is… but whether it sends an appropriate message to kids, or is a well-made film, is another matter entirely.

The message to kids - Japanese kids in 1969 - is that life really sucks sometimes, your parents might not be there for you (even if they want to be) and sometimes your only escape is your own little fantasy world. Is that the best message to send to an American kid in 2022? No, but I'm sure it resonated with Japanese kids at the time, who all lived similar lives as Ichiro.

And aside from using stock footage (which is done in a much smarter way than Gamera vs Viras, Godzilla vs Gigan, Godzilla vs Megalon and Gamera Supermonster) how is it a poorly made film? From a filmmaking standpoint there are much worse Japanese monster films. Especially considering the movie was a low budget throwaway film meant to kick off a kids film festival.

[CyberZilla]

Especially considering the movie was a low budget throwaway film meant to kick off a kids film festival.

Just want to say this context is really helpful. I’ve never been huge on this movie, so this is really interesting context to know.