Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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darthzilla99
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by darthzilla99 »

LSD Jellyfish wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:12 pm Jet Jaguar was/has been always way simpler than either Destoroyah or Space Godzilla. He's just a robot that people in a garage made and becomes sentient and able to change size.
How are oxygen Destroyer mutation or crystal telekinetic Godzilla from Space more complex than size manipulating garage sentient robot?
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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darthzilla99 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:26 pm
LSD Jellyfish wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:12 pm Jet Jaguar was/has been always way simpler than either Destoroyah or Space Godzilla. He's just a robot that people in a garage made and becomes sentient and able to change size.
How are oxygen Destroyer mutation or crystal telekinetic Godzilla from Space more complex than size manipulating garage sentient robot?
I think a general bias against the Heisei era plays a part in it all. If JJ had debuted in said era as opposed to the Showa, people would show the same attitude as the kaiju who actually did.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by miguelnuva »

LSD Jellyfish wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:38 pm
Legion1979 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:03 pm To people who want these two monsters back - do you want them back with designs and powers similar to what we've already gotten or would you be up for a total and complete re-think of the very idea of both?
Complete overhaul, but at that point whatever emerges might as well be a different monster.
You can apply this logic to any Toho monster that comes back. Gmk, Heisei and Showa Ghidorah are all different yet they're still Ghidorah.

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miguelnuva wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:57 pm
Legion1979 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:41 am Easy answer. Both monsters are tied to their origins. Could you really bring them back without repeating what was already done?
SpaceGodzilla landed in Earth a long time ago and his Cell's created Godzilla, who later reawoken by the atomic bomb.
So… SpaceGodzilla is the original? What’s the point of him being called SpaceGodzilla then? Let’s not do that.
Because he's a Godzilla from Space. People go off who they meet first, if Godzilla was encountered first and became the status que it wouldn't matter if SpaceGodzilla was the originator.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Hmmm that's true^

I guess the rule of thumb is that origins can easily change, but the design is relatively more important. Excluding SP Kumonga at least. :lol:
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Terasawa »

I've been getting a lot of mileage out of Godzilla Raids Again (and Gigantis) and Battle in Outer Space for a while now. I know these are generally very unpopular and unappreciated movies among fans here (at least), but they do it for me.

>>
darthzilla99 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:26 pm
LSD Jellyfish wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:12 pm Jet Jaguar was/has been always way simpler than either Destoroyah or Space Godzilla. He's just a robot that people in a garage made and becomes sentient and able to change size.
How are oxygen Destroyer mutation or crystal telekinetic Godzilla from Space more complex than size manipulating garage sentient robot?
I think because vs Destoroyah and vs SpaceGodzilla go to greater efforts to rationally explain their monsters than vs. Megalon does Jet Jaguar. "He programmed himself to change his size" is barely science fiction -- at best you could maybe rationalize it as sci-fantasy, but IMO it's simply foolishness. SpaceGodzilla's and Destoroyah's origins are inherently more complex because Kashiwabara and Omori, respectively, attempt to ground them in (specious) science. Of those two monsters, the explanation for Destoroyah especially is far more complex than Jet Jaguar's.

Anime JJ is a different story, although I would still hesitate to say it's more complex than SG and Destoroyah.

>>
LegendZilla wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:03 pm I think a general bias against the Heisei era plays a part in it all. If JJ had debuted in said era as opposed to the Showa, people would show the same attitude as the kaiju who actually did.
I don't think it's anything so dishonest.
Last edited by Terasawa on Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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^The more time goes by, people get smarter. The downside to that is the more it happens, the more they get all needy and demanding for logic. As a result, more and more people forget how to shut their brains of and just have fun every now and then.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:17 pm Hmmm that's true^

I guess the rule of thumb is that origins can easily change, but the design is relatively more important. Excluding SP Kumonga at least. :lol:
I mean Godzilla with crystals is a loose and versatile design. He doesn't even have to be blue or have shoulder crystals or have a crown or tusks. You could even make his plates clear and see through. And like I said his telepathy is his unique power since we haven't seen another Godzilla kaiju use telepathy.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Tyrant_Lizard_King »

Seeing as how King of the Monsters is a love it or hate it film, usually either of those two extremes, I guess my opinion is unpopular. I have absolutely no feelings for it one way or the other. It makes me feel nothing, neither love nor hatred. It just exists. Probably the only Godzilla movie i can really say that about.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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LegendZilla wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:34 pm ^The more time goes by, people get smarter. The downside to that is the more it happens, the more they get all needy and demanding for logic. As a result, more and more people forget how to shut their brains of and just have fun every now and then.
Well, in a way, I agree. I do think sci-fi movies have gotten more and more complex over time, but that's maybe equally because audiences apparently understand sci-fi better* as it is that modern movies are more expensive ("bigger") and more interested in topping all that's come before.

*Compared to the 1950s, when as a serious cinematic genre, sci-fi films were in their infancy.

But in regards to Jet Jaguar's ability to change size vs. Destoroyah's origin, I think the major difference is that the Toho films of the '60s and '70s (especially when written by Shinichi Sekizawa, and even more especially those made when children were exclusively the audience) were less concerned with explaining WHY there are monsters as they were in exploring fantasy creatures in a generally-real world. (And then, Godzilla vs. Megalon isn't even that. It's an obvious attempt to replicate the borderline-surreal adventure realm of the contemporary TV tokusatsu.) Most of the Toho monster movies since 1984 are more conventionally sci-fi, whereas the '60s and '70s films increasingly eschewed science for fantasy. (Or only paid lip service to the "science" to get back to what the filmmakers really wanted to say. And obviously there are still echoes of this in nearly every kaiju movie made since Mothra.)
Last edited by Terasawa on Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by edgaguirus »

You make a good point. The tone of the 60s and 70s films were lighter, and sometimes more playful, than the Heisei films as well. The Showa films could get away with doing strange and impossible things since they seemed more focused on storytelling, action, and creativity. The Heisei films, and sometimes the Millenium films, embrace their sci fi foundation, even if it requires some stretching.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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^As a whole, the Heisei era intended to take itself more seriously than the mid-late Showa era. That's why incorporating more fantastical elements would seem out of place to a lot of people.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Legion1979 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:03 pm If Toho wanted to bring Space Godzilla and Destroyah back I think they would have by now. It's been over a quarter century.

To people who want these two monsters back - do you want them back with designs and powers similar to what we've already gotten or would you be up for a total and complete re-think of the very idea of both?
I feel like there's a balance that can be struck. Spacegodzilla in particular has this nice combination of definition and flexibility in his design and potential power set. He has to look recognizably like Godzilla, but with crystals incorporated somehow. I feel like there are a lot of ways that could play out. He could be partially or even completely made of crystal, for example, and ideally would have control over his own crystalline structure, enabling him to shift and change to suit his needs. That fits perfectly with the modern 'evolution' trope that Toho is pushing lately. Maybe he could start out as some small creature that tries to evolve itself into Godzilla (not original, I know), or if you want to get a little more loose with the concept, he could even be a parasitic organism that infects Godzilla, so that Godzilla himself becomes 'Spacegodzilla'.

EDIT: In fact, that might be a good way to incorporate SG into the Monsterverse. Godzilla is infected by killer crystals from space (which is marginally more plausible and less goofy than full on SG) and attempts world domination, forcing humanity to bring Kong up from the Hollow Earth for a 'rematch'. That kills like four different birds with one stone, and would be something unique for the franchise on top of it.
Last edited by JAGzilla on Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Your crystal parasite idea sounds like an ideal way to bring back SG. Godzilla and KotM show Godzilla as a hero, but G vs K demonstrates he will attack man if he has a reason. Having Godzilla take the next step to villain would continue the arc from hero to threat.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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edgaguirus wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:51 pm Your crystal parasite idea sounds like an ideal way to bring back SG. Godzilla and KotM show Godzilla as a hero, but G vs K demonstrates he will attack man if he has a reason. Having Godzilla take the next step to villain would continue the arc from hero to threat.
On top of that, maybe go a similar route with the Zurg plot-twist in Lightyear with SpaceGodzilla.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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LegendZilla wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:00 am
edgaguirus wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:51 pm Your crystal parasite idea sounds like an ideal way to bring back SG. Godzilla and KotM show Godzilla as a hero, but G vs K demonstrates he will attack man if he has a reason. Having Godzilla take the next step to villain would continue the arc from hero to threat.
On top of that, maybe go a similar route with the Zurg plot-twist in Lightyear with SpaceGodzilla.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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JAGzilla wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:28 am
Legion1979 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:03 pm If Toho wanted to bring Space Godzilla and Destroyah back I think they would have by now. It's been over a quarter century.

To people who want these two monsters back - do you want them back with designs and powers similar to what we've already gotten or would you be up for a total and complete re-think of the very idea of both?
I feel like there's a balance that can be struck. Spacegodzilla in particular has this nice combination of definition and flexibility in his design and potential power set. He has to look recognizably like Godzilla, but with crystals incorporated somehow. I feel like there are a lot of ways that could play out. He could be partially or even completely made of crystal, for example, and ideally would have control over his own crystalline structure, enabling him to shift and change to suit his needs. That fits perfectly with the modern 'evolution' trope that Toho is pushing lately. Maybe he could start out as some small creature that tries to evolve itself into Godzilla (not original, I know), or if you want to get a little more loose with the concept, he could even be a parasitic organism that infects Godzilla, so that Godzilla himself becomes 'Spacegodzilla'.

EDIT: In fact, that might be a good way to incorporate SG into the Monsterverse. Godzilla is infected by killer crystals from space (which is marginally more plausible and less goofy than full on SG) and attempts world domination, forcing humanity to bring Kong up from the Hollow Earth for a 'rematch'. That kills like four different birds with one stone, and would be something unique for the franchise on top of it.
Okayyy! This is a great idea! Keep em coming, I gotta hear more of these!!!
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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^A balance can be struck as long as we can all think outside the box now and then.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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KingKong2005 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:09 pm Okayyy! This is a great idea! Keep em coming, I gotta hear more of these!!!
Thanks, but off the top of my head, that's about all I have. :lol: Aside from my Battra concept I've posted like ten times, anyway. Are you familiar with that one?
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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JAGzilla wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:21 am
KingKong2005 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:09 pm Okayyy! This is a great idea! Keep em coming, I gotta hear more of these!!!
Thanks, but off the top of my head, that's about all I have. :lol: Aside from my Battra concept I've posted like ten times, anyway. Are you familiar with that one?
Actually I'm not, but it sounds really interesting! Care to post it for an 11th time? I'd love to hear it!
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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I'm probably the only person on Earth who thinks this, but the distorted pig squealing the Aggregate Destoroyah's make creeps me the skreeonk out. I dunno what it is but it makes my skin crawl, especially when they're swarming over Godzilla.
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