Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

[Legion1979]

Not really gatekeeping to say the Hamera trilogy is better than the Heisei Godzilla films. People have been saying that for over 20-25 years. They haven't been called the best Japanese monster films ever made (even by non fans) for no reason.

[Maritonic]

Not really gatekeeping to say the Hamera trilogy is better than the Heisei Godzilla films. People have been saying that for over 20-25 years. They haven't been called the best Japanese monster films ever made (even by non fans) for no reason.

Yeah, but it IS gatekeeping to say "I dont know how anyone for any reasion, aside from completely blind, fanboy preference could say ANY Heisei Godzilla film is better."

[Legion1979]

But isn't it also gatekeeping to protect the Godzilla movies (all Godzilla movies) from being told they're lesser than anything else, even films that actually HAVE been lauded worldwide by even nonfans as the best?

[Maritonic]

But isn't it also gatekeeping to protect the Godzilla movies (all Godzilla movies) from being told their lesser than anything else, even films that actually HAVE been lauded worldwide by even nonfans as the best?

For starters, I didn't see that. Still don't. I saw what you said, and I replied to it. Secondly, I'm uninterested what the public and non-fans think about the Gamera movies lol, it's not relevant to the gatekeeping on display here.

It's fine if you think the Gamera trilogy is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I really don't care. I'm commenting on the idea that no one can possibly have a different opinion without being a blind fanboy. It's bullshit. It's representative of a massive problem growing in this fan base.

[Legion1979]

Okay. I feel like you've got a bigger issue than just me disagreeing with you if my opinion made you go off about how toxic gatekeeping is. I'm not trying to be an ass, just how it comes off. I'm sorry.

And wanna hear something funny? I actually DON'T like the Gamera trilogy as much as the Godzilla films you mentioned. I dont like them as much...but I still think they're better. Nuts, right?

[Maritonic]

Okay. I feel like you've got a bigger issue than just me disagreeing with you if my opinion made you go off about how toxic gatekeeping is. I'm not trying to be an ass, just how it comes off. I'm sorry.

And wanna hear something funny? I actually DON'T like the Gamera trilogy as much as the Godzilla films you mentioned. I dont like as much...but I still think they're better. Nuts, right?

I'm not sure how calling you out on something you said, while discussing your counter arguments, equals a bigger issue. But, continue not trying to be an ass.

[miguelnuva]

Okay. I feel like you've got a bigger issue than just me disagreeing with you if my opinion made you go off about how toxic gatekeeping is. I'm not trying to be an ass, just how it comes off. I'm sorry.

And wanna hear something funny? I actually DON'T like the Gamera trilogy as much as the Godzilla films you mentioned. I dont like them as much...but I still think they're better. Nuts, right?

I don't think the 80's Heisei films are better than the Gamera trilogy overall, I just think people like to act like the Heisei series is Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla or the Mothra trilogy quality when comparing it to the Gamera trilogy.

I rank movies based on personal enjoyment and would I recommend it to someone and for me personally it would be Gamera trilogy first, then the 80's Godzilla films.

Gamera is better but it's just not a runaway like all the Heisei Godzilla films were bad.

[Spuro]

Which movies would you put over Guardian of the Universe?

Because when that game changer came out, everyone looked at the Godzilla movies from the past 6 years and basically said, "More like this please".

The Return of Godzilla, for my money, but it's a pretty close call there. Guardian of the Universe definitely has the tighter story structure and superior characters, but I'm very fond of The Return of Godzilla's atmosphere and political allegories.

[Major sssspielberg!]

Godzilla vs Biollante is like a masterclass in scripting, especially for the kaiju genre. From what I know, it also moved the needle for toku kinda like GOTU did.
In my opinion, Return of Godzilla, Biollante and vs King Ghidorah are a pretty tight trilogy that's about as good as the Heisei Gamera trilogy.

[Cryptid_Liker]

And we know money is really all Tohp cares about.

It's all any corporation cares about.

[Legion1979]

And we know money is really all Tohp cares about.

It's all any corporation cares about.

Obviously. But Toho has made an art out of it.

Wait. Did someone say Biollante is a masterclass in scripting? I like the movie just fine but I wouldn't say it's actual SCRIPT is anything special. Good ideas and a great concept...but not really a good script. That is true of every Heisei Godzilla film except perhaps G84 and Mechagodzilla - the latter being such a simple, streamlined movie that it's hard to find much fault in the script.

[miguelnuva]

Godzilla vs Biollante is like a masterclass in scripting, especially for the kaiju genre. From what I know, it also moved the needle for toku kinda like GOTU did.
In my opinion, Return of Godzilla, Biollante and vs King Ghidorah are a pretty tight trilogy that's about as good as the Heisei Gamera trilogy.

My thoughts as well. The Early Heisei Godzilla trilogy plus Destroyer can sit at the same table as the Gamera Trilogy. I'd even debate Destroyer is a better finale than G3 is.

[Legion1979]

Poor Gamera really can't win against Godzilla, can he? Some of the most praised Japanese monster films of all time, and people still say Heisei Godzilla movies (and Destroyah of things) are better.

[Gigantis]

Poor Gamera really can't win against Godzilla, can he? Some of the most praised Japanese monster films of all time, and people still say Heisei Godzilla movies (and Destroyah of things) are better.

I mean, sure the Heisei Gamera films are praised NOW, but they really weren't that beloved when they first came out back in the 90's. The Rebirth of Mothra trilogy isn't liked at all nowadays, but ROM 3 still beat Revenge of Iris at the box office from what i recall.

[miguelnuva]

Poor Gamera really can't win against Godzilla, can he? Some of the most praised Japanese monster films of all time, and people still say Heisei Godzilla movies (and Destroyah of things) are better.

I didn't say better, I said they can sit at the same table. Like I said when I talk about the quality of a film I talk about my personal enjoyment which is Why I'll take the Monsterverse over Shin for example.

Added in 1 minute 52 seconds:

Poor Gamera really can't win against Godzilla, can he? Some of the most praised Japanese monster films of all time, and people still say Heisei Godzilla movies (and Destroyah of things) are better.

I mean, sure the Heisei Gamera films are praised NOW, but they really weren't that beloved when they first came out back in the 90's. The Rebirth of Mothra trilogy isn't liked at all nowadays, but ROM 3 still beat Revenge of Iris at the box office from what i recall.

The entire Mothra trilogy beat the Gamera trilogy which is sad because Mothra 2 and Gamera 2 are polar opposites in the spectrum.

[UltramanGoji]

Poor Gamera really can't win against Godzilla, can he? Some of the most praised Japanese monster films of all time, and people still say Heisei Godzilla movies (and Destroyah of things) are better.

Who cares? Seriously? Get over it. People have differing opinions. I don't know why you can't seem to grasp this. Look what friggin' thread you're in.

[eabaker]

Which movies would you put over Guardian of the Universe?

Because when that game changer came out, everyone looked at the Godzilla movies from the past 6 years and basically said, "More like this please".

The Return of Godzilla, for my money, but it's a pretty close call there. Guardian of the Universe definitely has the tighter story structure and superior characters, but I'm very fond of The Return of Godzilla's atmosphere and political allegories.

Yeah, I'd say despite the Heisei Godzilla and Gamera series being in the same genre in the sense of being kaiju movies, there's an apples-and-oranges aspect here, with the Godzilla entries often prioritizing very different elements than the Gamera movies.

While I'd say, on the whole, the Gamera trilogy easily represents technically better (and certainly far more consistent) filmmaking - tighter screenplays, more dynamic direction and photography in both human drama and sfx sequences - it's entirely possible to make a case for certain Heisei Godzilla films being better than certain Heisei Gamera movies; but that's really going to come down to what aspects of filmmaking/storytelling the individual viewer most prizes.

But if the question is, "Which of these movies would you show to an audience unfamiliar with the genre," the Heisei Gamera series would pretty much trounce the Godzilla movies of the same era.

Added in 2 minutes 6 seconds:

Wait. Did someone say Biollante is a masterclass in scripting? I like the movie just fine but I wouldn't say it's actual SCRIPT is anything special. Good ideas and a great concept...but not really a good script. That is true of every Heisei Godzilla film except perhaps G84 and Mechagodzilla - the latter being such a simple, streamlined movie that it's hard to find much fault in the script.

While "masterclass" might be an overstatement, I think Biollante does an impressive job of managing a large ensemble cast and a pretty complex plot for the genre, keeping everything clear and moving at a good pace.

Added in 1 minute 36 seconds:

Poor Gamera really can't win against Godzilla, can he? Some of the most praised Japanese monster films of all time, and people still say Heisei Godzilla movies (and Destroyah of things) are better.

I mean, sure the Heisei Gamera films are praised NOW, but they really weren't that beloved when they first came out back in the 90's. The Rebirth of Mothra trilogy isn't liked at all nowadays, but ROM 3 still beat Revenge of Iris at the box office from what i recall.

The Heisei Gamera movies weren't as successful at the box office as the concurrent Toho kaiju movies, but they were always embraced by fans and critics.

[darthzilla99]

Even when they came out in the 90s, the Gamera movies had way better critical reviews than the Godzilla movies at the time even though the Godzilla had better box office returns.

Guardian of the Universe also generated some buzz in the US with a limited theater run. It got big praise from both Ebert and the New York times.

As far as Biollante is concerned, it's script is actually one of it's weaknesses. It has alot of ideas that don't go anywhere. Super x2 is filler, the TC system is introduced out of the blue, it has too many characters that don't get enough development, Biollante disappears out of the narrative and feels like you're watching a different Godzilla movie until Biollante returns at the end just to name a few flaws, and biomajor disappears after Godzilla is released.

Unpopular opinion time: Just because a modern character is introverted and not as charismatic as alot of Showa human characters doesn't mean it's a flaw in writing or acting. Not every character needs to be an extrovert.

[Legion1979]

eabaker made a comment about what movies work better when shown to people unfamiliar with the genre...

I tried FOR YEARS to talk up the Heisei Godzilla films and get people interested in them. They've always fallen flat. I've had people fall asleep to them. My wife endured them once and said never again.

The Gamera films go over like gangbusters.

[miguelnuva]

eabaker made a comment about what movies work better when shown to people unfamiliar with the genre...

I tried FOR YEARS to talk up the Heisei Godzilla films and get people interested in them. They've always fallen flat. I've had people fall asleep to them. My wife endured them once and said never again.

The Gamera films go over like gangbusters.

Kong>Gamera>Godzilla because in terms of character Godzilla is the like a plot device.

If you're not a Godzilla or kaiju fan or you're not explaining what is going on Godzilla is the hardest to get into.

Kong is a character himself and Gamera is almost a Super hero. Godzilla is a natural disaster and tries to be serious.