I'm not really sure what it is you're asking. The development of the story has been pretty well catalogued, from Lucas's early treatments all the way through significant changes made in the edit. Ultimately, though, regardless of what the process was, we know for a fact what the film consisted of when it was released to theaters in 1977.mikelcho wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:44 pmQuestion: what was the design of the first film? Do you even know? Does anyone know?eabaker wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:17 pmStar Wars is notorious for glaring, awkward ret-cons. As far back as, "Leia is my sister," things have been popping up that were unmistakably not part of the design of the original movie; and Lucasfilm has found it necessary to go back and alter aspects of the OT in order to conform to discrepancies introduced by later movies.mikelcho wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:44 pm I agree. The film series that, imo, has the bset sense of continuity is the Star Wars series.
I've seen all 11 films and not only did I like the entire saga, the continuity between all the films was absolutely perfect. Everything led into, and was connected with, everything that came before and after.
Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
- eabaker
- Administrator
- Posts: 13758
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
- Location: Portland, OR
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.
- Jetty_Jags
- G-Grasper
- Posts: 1360
- Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:27 am
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
I think they are asking, "what was the plan for the Luke, Leia relationship if it wasn't always intended that they are siblings?"eabaker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:33 amI'm not really sure what it is you're asking. The development of the story has been pretty well catalogued, from Lucas's early treatments all the way through significant changes made in the edit. Ultimately, though, regardless of what the process was, we know for a fact what the film consisted of when it was released to theaters in 1977.mikelcho wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:44 pmQuestion: what was the design of the first film? Do you even know? Does anyone know?eabaker wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:17 pm
Star Wars is notorious for glaring, awkward ret-cons. As far back as, "Leia is my sister," things have been popping up that were unmistakably not part of the design of the original movie; and Lucasfilm has found it necessary to go back and alter aspects of the OT in order to conform to discrepancies introduced by later movies.
He Jock it Made of Steel
- eabaker
- Administrator
- Posts: 13758
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
- Location: Portland, OR
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
All evidence suggests that the plan was exactly what the first movie sets up: potential love interests.Jetty_Jags wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:40 amI think they are asking, "what was the plan for the Luke, Leia relationship if it wasn't always intended that they are siblings?"eabaker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:33 amI'm not really sure what it is you're asking. The development of the story has been pretty well catalogued, from Lucas's early treatments all the way through significant changes made in the edit. Ultimately, though, regardless of what the process was, we know for a fact what the film consisted of when it was released to theaters in 1977.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.
- miguelnuva
- Justiriser
- Posts: 18451
- Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:32 pm
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
No because Luke has a sister that is named in the orginal ESB draft and Vader and Anakin are too different people.Jetty_Jags wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:40 amI think they are asking, "what was the plan for the Luke, Leia relationship if it wasn't always intended that they are siblings?"eabaker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:33 amI'm not really sure what it is you're asking. The development of the story has been pretty well catalogued, from Lucas's early treatments all the way through significant changes made in the edit. Ultimately, though, regardless of what the process was, we know for a fact what the film consisted of when it was released to theaters in 1977.
To stay on topic however I think a continuity between the showa and Heisei series is key. I've always liked it where you don't have to see a previous film but if you did you get a little extra out of the plot.
Also I thought Long and hard on this but
Godzilla vs King> King Kong vs Godzilla.
Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
Shadow Area 1-0
Shadow Area 1-0
-
- Keizer
- Posts: 8608
- Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:25 pm
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
Continuity is fine as long as it serves the story you are telling. The dialogue bit that connects MvsG and G3HM is a good lead into the suggestion of the monster alliance against Ghidorah, and the search for MG's head that begins ToMG is a logical link to the previous film. Others, like Seatopia asking to borrow a cup of Gigan, are just there. I'm not objecting to "there" connections, however. They do work.
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made.
The strength of the vampire is that people will not believe in him.
The strength of the vampire is that people will not believe in him.
- miguelnuva
- Justiriser
- Posts: 18451
- Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:32 pm
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
I agree, I like the strength of continuity in the showa series but also see how the same thing can be a weakness for example the Heisei series in which Toho themselves thought the films were too connected.edgaguirus wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:46 pm Continuity is fine as long as it serves the story you are telling. The dialogue bit that connects MvsG and G3HM is a good lead into the suggestion of the monster alliance against Ghidorah, and the search for MG's head that begins ToMG is a logical link to the previous film. Others, like Seatopia asking to borrow a cup of Gigan, are just there. I'm not objecting to "there" connections, however. They do work.
Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
Shadow Area 1-0
Shadow Area 1-0
- LegendZilla
- Sazer
- Posts: 10372
- Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:57 am
- Location: British Columbia, Canada
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
^This if Kadokawa/Daiei can pull off a trilogy of consistently high-quality kaiju films with Gamera, Toho can do it with Godzilla if given the right team and formula.edgaguirus wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:46 pm Continuity is fine as long as it serves the story you are telling. The dialogue bit that connects MvsG and G3HM is a good lead into the suggestion of the monster alliance against Ghidorah, and the search for MG's head that begins ToMG is a logical link to the previous film. Others, like Seatopia asking to borrow a cup of Gigan, are just there. I'm not objecting to "there" connections, however. They do work.
- miguelnuva
- Justiriser
- Posts: 18451
- Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:32 pm
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
Gamera 2 if were honest works as a stand alone film. Gamera 1 and Gamera 3 are the only ones that have a hard connection.LegendZilla wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:51 pm^This if Kadokawa/Daiei can pull off a trilogy of consistently high-quality kaiju films with Gamera, Toho can do it with Godzilla if given the right team and formula.edgaguirus wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:46 pm Continuity is fine as long as it serves the story you are telling. The dialogue bit that connects MvsG and G3HM is a good lead into the suggestion of the monster alliance against Ghidorah, and the search for MG's head that begins ToMG is a logical link to the previous film. Others, like Seatopia asking to borrow a cup of Gigan, are just there. I'm not objecting to "there" connections, however. They do work.
Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
Shadow Area 1-0
Shadow Area 1-0
-
- Justiriser
- Posts: 16003
- Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:45 pm
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
Toho has had over 25 years to try to match the Gamera trilogy and they haven't. Kinda lost hope on that one.LegendZilla wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:51 pm^This if Kadokawa/Daiei can pull off a trilogy of consistently high-quality kaiju films with Gamera, Toho can do it with Godzilla if given the right team and formula.edgaguirus wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:46 pm Continuity is fine as long as it serves the story you are telling. The dialogue bit that connects MvsG and G3HM is a good lead into the suggestion of the monster alliance against Ghidorah, and the search for MG's head that begins ToMG is a logical link to the previous film. Others, like Seatopia asking to borrow a cup of Gigan, are just there. I'm not objecting to "there" connections, however. They do work.
- LegendZilla
- Sazer
- Posts: 10372
- Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:57 am
- Location: British Columbia, Canada
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
I take it you're not really a fan of literally any post-Showa Godzilla film.Legion1979 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:00 pmToho has had over 25 years to try to match the Gamera trilogy and they haven't. Kinda lost hope on that one.LegendZilla wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:51 pm^This if Kadokawa/Daiei can pull off a trilogy of consistently high-quality kaiju films with Gamera, Toho can do it with Godzilla if given the right team and formula.edgaguirus wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:46 pm Continuity is fine as long as it serves the story you are telling. The dialogue bit that connects MvsG and G3HM is a good lead into the suggestion of the monster alliance against Ghidorah, and the search for MG's head that begins ToMG is a logical link to the previous film. Others, like Seatopia asking to borrow a cup of Gigan, are just there. I'm not objecting to "there" connections, however. They do work.
- miguelnuva
- Justiriser
- Posts: 18451
- Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:32 pm
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
I'd argue ROG and Godzilla vs Bio are in the same tier as the Gamera Trilogy. Godzilla vs King Ghidorah and Destroyah can hold their own with the Trilogy.Legion1979 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:00 pmToho has had over 25 years to try to match the Gamera trilogy and they haven't. Kinda lost hope on that one.LegendZilla wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:51 pm^This if Kadokawa/Daiei can pull off a trilogy of consistently high-quality kaiju films with Gamera, Toho can do it with Godzilla if given the right team and formula.edgaguirus wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:46 pm Continuity is fine as long as it serves the story you are telling. The dialogue bit that connects MvsG and G3HM is a good lead into the suggestion of the monster alliance against Ghidorah, and the search for MG's head that begins ToMG is a logical link to the previous film. Others, like Seatopia asking to borrow a cup of Gigan, are just there. I'm not objecting to "there" connections, however. They do work.
Then there is GMK and Shin for those that like Shin.
Last edited by miguelnuva on Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
Shadow Area 1-0
Shadow Area 1-0
-
- Justiriser
- Posts: 16003
- Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:45 pm
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
None of the films in the Heisei Godzilla series can touch the Gamera trilogy. Sorry.
Last edited by Legion1979 on Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
- JAGzilla
- Sazer
- Posts: 11893
- Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:45 pm
- Location: Georgia
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
In all fairness, I don't think Toho has honestly tried to match the Gamera trilogy. GMK and Shin are the only cases since the '80s where any actual effort went in. They've just been content to crap out mediocrity, otherwise.
"Stop wars and no more accidents. I guess that's all I can ask." -Akio
-
- Justiriser
- Posts: 16003
- Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:45 pm
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
Toho doesn't care, because as good as they are, the Gamera movies didn't make Godzilla money. And we know money is really all Tohp cares about.
The 70th anniversary is going to be lousy with inane exclusive merchandise and bizarre international partnerships but little in the way of true quality Godzilla media.
The 70th anniversary is going to be lousy with inane exclusive merchandise and bizarre international partnerships but little in the way of true quality Godzilla media.
Last edited by Legion1979 on Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
- miguelnuva
- Justiriser
- Posts: 18451
- Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:32 pm
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
That's the great thing about subjectivity though. I'd argue the 80's films are in the same tier.Legion1979 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:18 am Mone of the films in the Heisei Godzilla series can touch the Gamera trilogy. Sorry.
Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
Shadow Area 1-0
Shadow Area 1-0
- Spuro
- Keizer
- Posts: 9545
- Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:34 pm
- Location: Monster Island
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
Yeah, that's pretty fair.Legion1979 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:18 am Mone of the films in the Heisei Godzilla series can touch the Gamera trilogy. Sorry.
eabaker wrote: You can't parse duende.
Breakdown wrote: HP Lovecraft's cat should be the ultimate villain of the MonsterVerse.
-
- Justiriser
- Posts: 16003
- Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:45 pm
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
Yes, subjectivity is nice.miguelnuva wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:01 amThat's the great thing about subjectivity though. I'd argue the 80's films are in the same tier.Legion1979 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:18 am Mone of the films in the Heisei Godzilla series can touch the Gamera trilogy. Sorry.
Doesn't change the fact that, as a complete package, Godzilla vs Biollante as a functioning movie isn't fit to be mentioned in the same breath as the Gamera movies. It's just not. I dont know how anyone for any reasion, aside from completely blind, fanboy preference could say ANY Heisei Godzilla film is better.
- Maritonic
- Admin | Forum Manager
- Posts: 6680
- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:26 am
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
Yeah, no. I'd take half the Heisei Godzilla movies over Guardian of the Universe. Easily. But, you know; good thing we can't disagree on opinions without being blind fanboys.Legion1979 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:33 amYes, subjectivity is nice.miguelnuva wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:01 amThat's the great thing about subjectivity though. I'd argue the 80's films are in the same tier.Legion1979 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:18 am Mone of the films in the Heisei Godzilla series can touch the Gamera trilogy. Sorry.
Doesn't change the fact that, as a complete package, Godzilla vs Biollante as a functioning movie isn't fit to be mentioned in the same breath as the Gamera movies. It's just not. I dont know how anyone for any reasion, aside from completely blind, fanboy preference could say ANY Heisei Godzilla film is better.
Any issues, please feel free to private message me or e-mail me at MaritonicTK@gmail.com.
Bruno says we're not supposed to hate.
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:24 pm Don't go to a friend's wedding, send him 100 copies of Gamera vs Zigra instead. Be a man.
-
- Justiriser
- Posts: 16003
- Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:45 pm
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
Which movies would you put over Guardian of the Universe?
Because when that game changer came out, everyone looked at the Godzilla movies from the past 6 years and basically said, "More like this please".
Because when that game changer came out, everyone looked at the Godzilla movies from the past 6 years and basically said, "More like this please".
- Maritonic
- Admin | Forum Manager
- Posts: 6680
- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:26 am
Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions
G84, Biollante, King Ghidorah, Mechagodzilla II, and Destroyah.Legion1979 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:44 am Which movies would you put over Guardian of the Universe?
Because when that game changer came out, everyone looked at the Godzilla movies from the past 6 years and basically said, "More like this please".
Over Legion, that list would dwindle a bit, and even more with Iris.
Frankly, I don't even care about the opinion. I'm just sick of the gatekeeping bullshit that's growing rapidly in this fan base.
Any issues, please feel free to private message me or e-mail me at MaritonicTK@gmail.com.
Bruno says we're not supposed to hate.
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:24 pm Don't go to a friend's wedding, send him 100 copies of Gamera vs Zigra instead. Be a man.