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kpa
G-Grasper
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 Posted: Fri Aug 17 2007 6:29 PM Post subject: Explaining the Heisei Godzilla Timeline |
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GODZILLA VS KING GHIDORAH was a big hit at the Japanese box office in 1991, but the story— about time travelers going back to 1944 in an attempt to prevent the creation of Godzilla— was so convoluted and confusing that sixteen years later many viewers are still perplexed by what the movie was about and how it relates to the other films in the Heisei series.
Questions about the GODZILLA VS KING GHIDORAH and the Heisei timeline pop up frequently on the fan forums (there have been a least three threads on the subject in the past month alone) so I revised an old explanation and added some new information, quotes, and screenshots. For anyone who is interested, the report is now on SciFi Japan.
http://www.scifijapan.com/articles/2007/08/16/godzilla-vs-king-ghidorah-time-travel-and-the-origins-of-godzilla/
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Keith
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Legirious
Yojimbo
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18 2007 10:31 AM Post subject: |
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| Very nice KPA, but I just have one question. What happened to the Lagos dinosaur before it was moved? Even before that it still became the Heisei Godzilla right? |
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Tomzilla
Site Staff
Joined: 26 May 2003
Posts: 289
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18 2007 2:45 PM Post subject: |
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| Legirious wrote: | | Very nice KPA, but I just have one question. What happened to the Lagos dinosaur before it was moved? Even before that it still became the Heisei Godzilla right? |
Way I see it, the Godzillsaurus on Lagos was destined to be moved. Time was never altered to begin with. History showed the Futurians having a hand in Heisei Godzilla's birth. You could ask what would've happened to the Godzillsaur on Lagos had it not been moved, but in doing so, you could ask your parents what'd happen if they never got together.
A lot of things would've happened. But since we don't know, it doesn't matter. Maybe it would've died had it stayed. Maybe it would've become Heisei Godzilla, regardless? Nobody knows. It is a good question though.
One could say the future Emi came from is the real timeline. In Keith's article, it was said Godzilla never healed from the ANB. He became harmless. Later on, Japan became the mightiest nation on Earth. One way or another, his birth was a result of time travel. But the events that played out after Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah '92 proves an alternate timeline was made. Godzilla vs. Mothra, Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla II, Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla, and Godzilla vs. Destoroyah belong to an alternate world.
In other words, the future of this alternate world is unknown. That's what makes it unique.
Anyways, wonderful job Keith! I'll be bookmarking that page and save it for many years to come. Then again, I've saved a bunch of articles found on Sci-Fi Japan. So it might take some time for me to find it. 
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Kane_Locke
Seatopian Demigod
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
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Location: Consorting with Lady Death
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18 2007 3:08 PM Post subject: |
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... Lord, these topics make my brain hurt...
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alienhulk2099
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Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18 2007 3:35 PM Post subject: |
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| I'll ask someone to see if this can get stickied. |
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kpa
G-Grasper
Joined: 14 Dec 2003
Posts: 1575
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18 2007 5:52 PM Post subject: |
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| Legirious wrote: | | Very nice KPA, but I just have one question. What happened to the Lagos dinosaur before it was moved? Even before that it still became the Heisei Godzilla right? |
I don't know. What I tried to do in the article was leave out any guessing and simply point out what was shown in the movies... if Toho didn't say one way or the other I didn't either. I think Tomzilla's explanation here works fine to explain one of those things that Toho didn't.
| Tomzilla wrote: | | Anyways, wonderful job Keith! I'll be bookmarking that page and save it for many years to come. Then again, I've saved a bunch of articles found on Sci-Fi Japan. So it might take some time for me to find it. |
Thanks Tom! There is a search function on the site that works pretty well... I use it whenever I need to find an old article quickly.
| Kane_Locke wrote: | | ... Lord, these topics make my brain hurt... |
Yeah, but this is one of those 3 or 4 topics that keeps coming up. I've seen the same question again and again for years, and I wasn't kidding when I said there had been at least three threads on it in the past month.
From now on, anyone who agrees with what I wrote can simply post a link to the article whenever this question comes up (and you can bet it will) and you won't have endless topics on the same thing.
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Keith
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Legionmaster
Galactic Warrior
Joined: 03 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18 2007 9:24 PM Post subject: |
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Given that this is a huge problem area in discussion and is frequently misunderstood, the GvsKG time travel explaination will finally get a Sticky.
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Goji_girl
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19 2007 5:47 PM Post subject: |
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Is this because of the questions I asked in that one thread? Because I think I get it now.
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Carnosaur Rex
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19 2007 6:22 PM Post subject: |
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| Goji_girl wrote: | | Is this because of the questions I asked in that one thread? Because I think I get it now. |
Well yes in a way, you and many other people have been asking that very same question since the forums started up. That and the fact that the general concensus on the issue seems to be incorrect.
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wataru
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04 2007 5:42 PM Post subject: |
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People refuse to think 4-dimensionally with GvsKG91.
It all boils down to ONE thing.
The Godzilla from Godzilla 1985 (Return of Godzilla) and Godzilla vs Biollante is the Godzillasaurus mutated by the 1970s radiation explained in GvsKG91.
In GvsKG91, they were hoping to ELMINATE Godzilla from the timeline. This WOULD negate RoG and GvsB, but notice when they got back from 1941, everyone still remembered Godzilla. That's because MOVING the Lagos Island Godzilla caused Godzilla in the first place!
Narrowed Timeline:
The bold after the fact is from what movie its from
- 1941 a Godzillasaur is discovered by the Lagos Island Regiment. GvsKG91
- 1941 said Godzillasaur is fatally injured by the US Pacific Forces. GvsKG91
- 1941 said Godzillasaur is transported to the bottom of the Bering Sea by the Futurians via Mothra and M-11. GvsKG91
- 1941 3 Dorats are left behind to absorb the radiation supposedly meant for the Godzilla. GvsKG91
- 1970s the remains of the nearly dead Godzillasaur are exposed to 1970s nuclear radition causing the Godzillasaur to become GODZILLA Not seen in any movie, but mentioned in GvsKG91
- 1984 The events of Godzilla 1984 RoG
- 1989 The events of Godzilla vs Biollante GvsB
- 1992 The Futurians return to the past to remove Godzilla from the timeline, set up King Ghidorah and bring down Japan in a bid to rule the future. The learned of the Lagos Island Godzillasaur from Terasawa's book. Terasawa learned of the Godzillasaur from his own book brought by the Futurians, creating a time paradox. GvsKG91
- 1992 The Futurianas, and M-11 and 3 Dorats return to 1941. King Ghidorah also appears and seems to have a short history in the timeline. GvsKG91
Now go back to the top of this timeline.
Its a GIANT LOOP. There are NOT two Godzillas. There's only ONE.
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kpa
G-Grasper
Joined: 14 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04 2007 6:42 PM Post subject: |
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| wataru wrote: | People refuse to think 4-dimensionally with GvsKG91.
It all boils down to ONE thing.
The Godzilla from Godzilla 1985 (Return of Godzilla) and Godzilla vs Biollante is the Godzillasaurus mutated by the 1970s radiation explained in GvsKG91. |
Correct.
| Quote: | In GvsKG91, they were hoping to ELMINATE Godzilla from the timeline. This WOULD negate RoG and GvsB, but notice when they got back from 1941, everyone still remembered Godzilla. That's because MOVING the Lagos Island Godzilla caused Godzilla in the first place!
Narrowed Timeline:
The bold after the fact is from what movie its from
- 1941 a Godzillasaur is discovered by the Lagos Island Regiment. GvsKG91
- 1941 said Godzillasaur is fatally injured by the US Pacific Forces. GvsKG91
- 1941 said Godzillasaur is transported to the bottom of the Bering Sea by the Futurians via Mothra and M-11. GvsKG91 |
I assume you meant MOTHER, not Mothra, but even so MOTHER did not go back to 1944. The Godzillasaur was teleported by one of the smaller KID ships.
| Quote: | - 1941 3 Dorats are left behind to absorb the radiation supposedly meant for the Godzilla. GvsKG91
- 1970s the remains of the nearly dead Godzillasaur are exposed to 1970s nuclear radition causing the Godzillasaur to become GODZILLA Not seen in any movie, but mentioned in GvsKG91
- 1984 The events of Godzilla 1984 RoG
- 1989 The events of Godzilla vs Biollante GvsB
- 1992 The Futurians return to the past to remove Godzilla from the timeline, set up King Ghidorah and bring down Japan in a bid to rule the future. The learned of the Lagos Island Godzillasaur from Terasawa's book. Terasawa learned of the Godzillasaur from his own book brought by the Futurians, creating a time paradox. GvsKG91 |
Terasawa heard of the dinosaur and had made the connection to Godzilla before meeting the Futurians and seeing a copy of his book. Early in the film he saw a small article in the newspaper about a veteran of the Lago Island garrison claiming to see a dinosaur in 1944. Tersawa interviewed the vet and Mr Shindo, and it was the information they provided that led to his theory and plans for a book.
| Quote: | | - 1992 The Futurianas, and M-11 and 3 Dorats return to 1941. King Ghidorah also appears and seems to have a short history in the timeline. GvsKG91 |
You basically repeated what's in the article, but you got some facts and dates wrong... all the WWII scenes take place in 1944.
| Quote: | Now go back to the top of this timeline.
Its a GIANT LOOP. There are NOT two Godzillas. There's only ONE. |
There's only one Godzilla who stars in the seven films from RETURN OF GODZILLA to DESTOROYAH, but there are three in the Heisei timeline. The first is the Godzilla who first appeared and was killed by the Oxygen Destroyer in 1954... Toho clearly established that these events happened, and that this Godzilla was not the Heisei Godzilla. The second was the Heisei Godzilla, the one created from the Lagos dinosaur and who eventually suffered a meltdown in DESTOROYAH. The third is Godzilla Jr, who because the next Godzilla in the final seconds of DESTOROYAH.
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Godzilla Fury
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13 2007 6:47 PM Post subject: |
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I kinda agree with Tomzilla.
I believe that the 54 godzilla was a supposedly extinct creature, awoken by the H-Bomb.
While Heisei Goji was supposed to be created by Futurians:
The way i see it, The futurians teleported Godzilla to the EXACT SAME PLACE as he was after his encounter with Bio, so the humans and futurian's naturally that travled through time thought Godzilla was just a Dino there. While the humans in the present time/Futurians thought that the humans had succeded Remembering 84 and Bio BECAUSE it had happened because of the Futurians. Then when the Japanese decided to make a new one, their sub was attacked by a Godzilla that was still kinda drowzy from the ANEB, but with this new nucelar energy he was replenished/fueled up more to become stronger.
Also due to the Nuclear pollution the Godzillasaur had turned into Hesei Godzilla in the 70's, and later attacked in 1984
Hey it's Toho, Anything is possible 
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wataru
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13 2007 6:53 PM Post subject: |
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| Godzilla Fury wrote: | I kinda agree with Tomzilla.
I believe that the 54 godzilla was a supposedly extinct creature, awoken by the H-Bomb.
While Heisei Goji was supposed to be created by Futurians:
The way i see it, The futurians teleported Godzilla to the EXACT SAME PLACE as he was after his encounter with Bio, so the humans and futurian's naturally that travled through time thought Godzilla was just a Dino there. While the humans in the present time/Futurians thought that the humans had succeded Remembering 84 and Bio BECAUSE it had happened because of the Futurians. Then when the Japanese decided to make a new one, their sub was attacked by a Godzilla that was still kinda drowzy from the ANEB, but with this new nucelar energy he was replenished/fueled up more to become stronger.
Also due to the Nuclear pollution the Godzillasaur had turned into Hesei Godzilla in the 70's, and later attacked in 1984
Hey it's Toho, Anything is possible |
I swear to BUDDHA yall dont read.
The Godzilla in RoG and GvsB IS THE SAME GOZILLASAUR TELEPORTS IN GVSKG91. There is no 1970s Godzilla in Heisei. There's ONE Godzilla (save the G54 Goji).
Think of it like this. Start Heisei with GvsKG91. That makes RoG and GvsB PREQUELS. Same Godzilla, MINUS the power.
1941 - Godzillasaur is transported the bottom for the ocean by the Futurians
1970 - Nuclear radiation in the rea mutates said Godzillasaur into Godzilla
1984- This Godzilla attacks Japan and is trapped in Mt Mihara
1989 - This Godzilla is awakened and attacks again. After being weakened by the ANEB it returns to the ocean
1991 - Futurians return to the past and go back to 1941 to 'remove' Godzilla from the timeline. NOW go back to the 1941 entry (first on this list)
1991 - This SAME Godzilla is exposed to 1990s radiation via Nuclear Sub and becomes the same Godzilla seen in the rest of Heisei
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Godzilla Fury
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13 2007 8:29 PM Post subject: |
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| wataru wrote: | | Godzilla Fury wrote: | I kinda agree with Tomzilla.
I believe that the 54 godzilla was a supposedly extinct creature, awoken by the H-Bomb.
While Heisei Goji was supposed to be created by Futurians:
The way i see it, The futurians teleported Godzilla to the EXACT SAME PLACE as he was after his encounter with Bio, so the humans and futurian's naturally that travled through time thought Godzilla was just a Dino there. While the humans in the present time/Futurians thought that the humans had succeded Remembering 84 and Bio BECAUSE it had happened because of the Futurians. Then when the Japanese decided to make a new one, their sub was attacked by a Godzilla that was still kinda drowzy from the ANEB, but with this new nucelar energy he was replenished/fueled up more to become stronger.
Also due to the Nuclear pollution the Godzillasaur had turned into Hesei Godzilla in the 70's, and later attacked in 1984
Hey it's Toho, Anything is possible |
I swear to BUDDHA yall dont read.
The Godzilla in RoG and GvsB IS THE SAME GOZILLASAUR TELEPORTS IN GVSKG91. There is no 1970s Godzilla in Heisei. There's ONE Godzilla (save the G54 Goji).
Think of it like this. Start Heisei with GvsKG91. That makes RoG and GvsB PREQUELS. Same Godzilla, MINUS the power.
1941 - Godzillasaur is transported the bottom for the ocean by the Futurians
1970 - Nuclear radiation in the rea mutates said Godzillasaur into Godzilla
1984- This Godzilla attacks Japan and is trapped in Mt Mihara
1989 - This Godzilla is awakened and attacks again. After being weakened by the ANEB it returns to the ocean
1991 - Futurians return to the past and go back to 1941 to 'remove' Godzilla from the timeline. NOW go back to the 1941 entry (first on this list)
1991 - This SAME Godzilla is exposed to 1990s radiation via Nuclear Sub and becomes the same Godzilla seen in the rest of Heisei |
Ok, seriously, We all can believe what we want, I do read the topic, but I think my theory is right, like others. You can't force others to believe what you do
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