How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

For the discussion of Shin Godzilla, the Godzilla anime trilogy and Toho produced and distributed films after 2015. Includes US movies financed by Toho like Detective Pikachu.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby Grievous » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:19 pm

Make it less depressing...

And actually have something happen besides EVERYONE dying.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby Mecha-SpaceGhidorah » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:33 am

Grievous wrote:And actually have something happen besides EVERYONE dying.

I think going the other route might have worked too. Have literally everyone die.
Have Ghidorah win. Have him kill Godzilla, fully traverse into our universe and win: killing the humans, the Exif, the Bilusaludo, the Houtua, Mothra, the servum, and destroy the entire Earth. Then show him moving on…

It would have been absolutely bleak and depressing, but it also would have been fascinating and original at the very least.
Last edited by Mecha-SpaceGhidorah on Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby Grievous » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:12 pm

Mecha-SpaceGhidorah wrote:
Grievous wrote:And actually have something happen besides EVERYONE dying.

I think going the other route might have worked too. Have literally everyone die.
Have Ghidorah win. Have him kill Godzilla, fully traverse into our universe and win: killing the humans, the Exif, the Bilusaludo, the Houtua, Mothra, the servum, and destroy the entire Earth. Then show him moving on…

It would have been absolutely bleak and depressing, but it also would have been fascinating and original at the very least.

Well...I think that could have worked...and
given Ghidorah a landmark "victory" on his
resume.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:04 pm

Mecha-SpaceGhidorah wrote:
Grievous wrote:And actually have something happen besides EVERYONE dying.

I think going the other route might have worked too. Have literally everyone die.
Have Ghidorah win. Have him kill Godzilla, fully traverse into our universe and win: killing the humans, the Exif, the Bilusaludo, the Houtua, Mothra, the servum, and destroy the entire Earth. Then show him moving on…

It would have been absolutely bleak and depressing, but it also would have been fascinating and original at the very least.

Eh, I don't know about that. It made sense for "the good guys" to win, as life doesn't have to be about ending in suffering or absolute defeat. There's always hope for prevail even when the skies are literally dark.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:07 pm

In a lot of my creative writing classes, we often discussed how killing off characters was a cheap way to conclude storylines or characters arcs, especially if their story was incomplete.

However, Haruo completes his character arc in the film, and his suicide also completes his arc. As for the others though, there’s really no excuse and a lot of the characters served as tools to progress Haruo’s story(not a complaint, just how it be).
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby Grievous » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:54 pm

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:It made sense for "the good guys" to win

But no one really won...

In the end no one really achieved anything.

LSD Jellyfish wrote:However, Haruo completes his character arc in the film, and his suicide also completes his arc.

Arc or not...I do not like it when main characters "give up" & kill themselves.

The ending of The Planet Eater gave me the same feelings I had when Sons of Anarchy finished up.

To me suicide is a cowards way out...in art...& in real life.

And for the record giving your life to save another is honorable...
but to me...that is not what Haruo did. What Haruo did was take
the easy way out & that is so lame.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:04 pm

Grievous wrote:
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:It made sense for "the good guys" to win

But no one really won...

In the end no one really achieved anything.

Harou, Miana, Martin, and Godzilla all played a part in defeating Metphies and KG to save the Earth.
That's definitely a achievement, just not one that ended with everyone running into a sunset happily ever after. The only one that truly won is Godzilla, as by killing Haruo he killed the old humanity that created him.
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Dv-218 wrote:This is so sad, Alexa play "Bio-Wars".

Dr. Professor wrote:If I had a dollar for every "SAVE MOTHRA" joke, I'd be able to buy Legendary Pictures, renew the license for Godzilla, acquire the rights to the rest of the Toho monsters, and make a Godzilla film that totally bombs without even putting a dent in my bank account.

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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby Grievous » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:12 pm

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:Harou, Miana, Martin, and Godzilla all played a part in defeating Metphies and KG to save the Earth.
That's definitely a achievement, just not one that ended with everyone running into a sunset happily
ever after. The only one that truly won is Godzilla, as by killing Haruo he killed the old humanity that
created him.

*Thinks*

A fair point I guess...it just seemed like such a nihilistic ending to me.

Martin Lazzari was one of the few bright spots in the trilogy...and I'm
glad he survived...but everyone else...

:shrug:

I mean maybe if I cared about The Houtua...but I don't.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:14 pm

Grievous wrote:
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:Harou, Miana, Martin, and Godzilla all played a part in defeating Metphies and KG to save the Earth.
That's definitely a achievement, just not one that ended with everyone running into a sunset happily
ever after. The only one that truly won is Godzilla, as by killing Haruo he killed the old humanity that
created him.

*Thinks*

A fair point I guess...it just seemed like such a nihilistic ending to me.

Martin Lazzari was one of the few bright spots in the trilogy...and I'm
glad he survived...but everyone else...

:shrug:

I mean maybe if I cared about The Houtua...but I don't.

At least it ended with humanity coexisting with Godzilla! A ending I believe should eventually happen to every G story, since neither humanity or Godzilla will go down easily :)
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Dv-218 wrote:This is so sad, Alexa play "Bio-Wars".

Dr. Professor wrote:If I had a dollar for every "SAVE MOTHRA" joke, I'd be able to buy Legendary Pictures, renew the license for Godzilla, acquire the rights to the rest of the Toho monsters, and make a Godzilla film that totally bombs without even putting a dent in my bank account.

"Wake the fruck up Godzilla, we got a city to burn." - Goro Maki, 2016.

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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby Grievous » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:59 pm

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:At least it ended with humanity coexisting with Godzilla!

I guess...but its not like they had another option at that point.

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:A ending I believe should eventually happen to every G story, since neither humanity or Godzilla will go down easily :)

Every G Story? Isn't that kind of boring though?
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:36 am

Grievous wrote:
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:It made sense for "the good guys" to win

But no one really won...

In the end no one really achieved anything.


I think the point was that the survival of humanity was, in fact, winning. It even got discussed at length in the film. Winning was about living to fight another day rather than killing off one's enemy.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby Grievous » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:36 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote:I think the point was that the survival of humanity was, in fact, winning. It even got discussed at length in the film. Winning was about living to fight another day rather than killing off one's enemy.

I don't call hiding in caves & sh!tting in creeks "living"

Especially after the technology humanity was shown to
wield in the earlier films.

"Are We Alive Or Just Breathing"


Although now thinking about it...this version of Godzilla
really did send humanity back to the stone age.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby Tomzilla » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:52 pm

I don't know how to improve the Anime films, besides cutting useless dialogue and filler.

I think it would've been cool if the epilogue flash-forwarded 20,000 years into the future and humanity's descendants, like the Earth itself, have become extensions of Godzilla. Godzilla, meanwhile, is looking to expand his kingdom to the stars...
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby Grievous » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:35 pm

Tomzilla wrote:I think it would've been cool if the epilogue flash-forwarded 20,000 years into the future and humanity's descendants, like the Earth itself, have become extensions of Godzilla. Godzilla, meanwhile, is looking to expand his kingdom to the stars...

I like these ideas...but...how would a creature like Godzilla "expand his kingdom"?

Launch some Servum into space?
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby SonOfGorgo » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:06 am

In terms of animation, I'd have the human/alien characters and backgrounds be hand-drawn, and the monsters, mech and ships be computer-animated.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby Titanoterror98 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:34 am

I've mostly come to terms with whatever resentmens I had against the anime trilogy, and any suggestions I make I could just as easily save for my original stories or fanfics. That said, you guys brought up few interesting ideas I'd like to comment on before I move on.

ManuJM1997 wrote:Tbh, if you gave me control from the project from day one, I would have booted out Urobuchi (I'm sorry, but this whole clusterskreeonk was mostly he's doing) and instead, I think Chiaki J. Konaka would have been a better writer.

I love both of the series he's done. Experiments Lain is good brain-wrecking stuff, and Digimon Tamers is still one of the best deconstructions of mons and kaiju stuff I've seen in a long time.

Besides, the dude is a true fan of Lovecraft, and has even wrote some Cthulhu Mythos stories.

I have no doubts he could make a very compelling Godzilla story, full of psychological stuff and cosmic horror.

This is Konaka when pressured by executives to be somewhat child-bearing (and in the cut american version)



Now this is something I'd like to see! I think that a big reason I didn't like the trilogy is because, even after accepting the different direction it took with the Godzilla mythos and formula(s), is that I just do not like Urobuchi's work. I'm sure Kamen Rider Gaim and Madoka are both good, but for one reason or another I'm not sure I could watch them, what with the grimdark drama and visceral levels of violence.

That said, Konaka would be a great choice for any kaiju anime or movie! Digimon Tamers was and is one of my first and favourite anime of all-time. On top of the aformentioned love of Lovecraftian, psychological horror, the man knows how to write interesting human characters and how to write compelling stories around them. Speaking of his work with toku-related stories, need I remind y'all of his work on The Big O? It's shame we haven't heard from him so long, though.

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:
Grievous wrote:
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:Harou, Miana, Martin, and Godzilla all played a part in defeating Metphies and KG to save the Earth.
That's definitely a achievement, just not one that ended with everyone running into a sunset happily
ever after. The only one that truly won is Godzilla, as by killing Haruo he killed the old humanity that
created him.

*Thinks*

A fair point I guess...it just seemed like such a nihilistic ending to me.

Martin Lazzari was one of the few bright spots in the trilogy...and I'm
glad he survived...but everyone else...

:shrug:

I mean maybe if I cared about The Houtua...but I don't.

At least it ended with humanity coexisting with Godzilla! A ending I believe should eventually happen to every G story, since neither humanity or Godzilla will go down easily :)


Kaiju-King42 wrote:
Grievous wrote:
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:It made sense for "the good guys" to win

But no one really won...

In the end no one really achieved anything.


I think the point was that the survival of humanity was, in fact, winning. It even got discussed at length in the film. Winning was about living to fight another day rather than killing off one's enemy.


I have to agree with Kaiju-King42 and MechaGoji Bro: although I'm not a fan of heroic sacrifices or how hollow victories, I feel like that was the point of the story. It was a society of hatred and violence that created the monsters, almost destroying mankind, and Haruo wanted to ensure that it would never happen again or threaten his family.
Spoiler:
I admit, it would have been nice if he discussed this with his wife instead of his sister-in-law/old flame (I feel so gross typing that), but in the end he had a hard choice but he made the right one.


Added in 11 minutes 50 seconds:
SonOfGorgo wrote:In terms of animation, I'd have the human/alien characters and backgrounds be hand-drawn, and the monsters, mech and ships be computer-animated.

This is something that I keep talking about when I make suggestions for the former and future anime series. If they had less cgi objects in the film, there would be less polygons; less polygons would make it easier for the animators to create more expressive and dynamic monsters. I may not be an Evangelion fan, but I admit that the Rebuild series is a beautiful demonstration of this technique.
Last edited by Titanoterror98 on Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby SonOfGorgo » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:52 am

Titanoterror98 wrote:I've mostly come to terms with whatever resentmens I had against the anime trilogy, and any suggestions I make I could just as easily save for my original stories or fanfics. That said, you guys brought up few interesting ideas I'd like to comment on before I move on.

ManuJM1997 wrote:Tbh, if you gave me control from the project from day one, I would have booted out Urobuchi (I'm sorry, but this whole clusterskreeonk was mostly he's doing) and instead, I think Chiaki J. Konaka would have been a better writer.

I love both of the series he's done. Experiments Lain is good brain-wrecking stuff, and Digimon Tamers is still one of the best deconstructions of mons and kaiju stuff I've seen in a long time.

Besides, the dude is a true fan of Lovecraft, and has even wrote some Cthulhu Mythos stories.

I have no doubts he could make a very compelling Godzilla story, full of psychological stuff and cosmic horror.

This is Konaka when pressured by executives to be somewhat child-bearing (and in the cut american version)



Now this is something I'd like to see! I think that a big reason I didn't like the trilogy is because, even after accepting the different direction it took with the Godzilla mythos and formula(s), is that I just do not like Urobuchi's work. I'm sure Kamen Rider Gaim and Madoka are both good, but for one reason or another I'm not sure I could watch them, what with the grimdark drama and visceral levels of violence.

That said, Konaka would be a great choice for any kaiju anime or movie! Digimon Tamers was and is one of my first and favourite anime of all-time. On top of the aformentioned love of Lovecraftian, psychological horror, the man knows how to write interesting human characters and how to write compelling stories around them. Speaking of his work with toku-related stories, need I remind y'all of his work on The Big O? It's shame we haven't heard from him so long, though.

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:
Grievous wrote:*Thinks*

A fair point I guess...it just seemed like such a nihilistic ending to me.

Martin Lazzari was one of the few bright spots in the trilogy...and I'm
glad he survived...but everyone else...

:shrug:

I mean maybe if I cared about The Houtua...but I don't.

At least it ended with humanity coexisting with Godzilla! A ending I believe should eventually happen to every G story, since neither humanity or Godzilla will go down easily :)


Kaiju-King42 wrote:
Grievous wrote:But no one really won...

In the end no one really achieved anything.


I think the point was that the survival of humanity was, in fact, winning. It even got discussed at length in the film. Winning was about living to fight another day rather than killing off one's enemy.


I have to agree with Kaiju-King42 and MechaGoji Bro: although I'm not a fan of heroic sacrifices or how hollow victories, I feel like that was the point of the story. It was a society of hatred and violence that created the monsters, almost destroying mankind, and Haruo wanted to ensure that it would never happen again or threaten his family.
Spoiler:
I admit, it would have been nice if he discussed this with his wife instead of his sister-in-law/old flame (I feel so gross typing that), but in the end he had a hard choice but he made the right one.


Added in 11 minutes 50 seconds:
SonOfGorgo wrote:In terms of animation, I'd have the human/alien characters and backgrounds be hand-drawn, and the monsters, mech and ships be computer-animated.

This is something that I keep talking about when I make suggestions for the former and future anime series. If they had less cgi objects in the film, there would be less polygons; less polygons would make it easier for the animators to create more expressive and dynamic monsters. I may not be an Evangelion fan, but I admit that the Rebuild series is a beautiful demonstration of this technique.

You made some actually very valid points. Kudos.


Another unrelated note, I'd also let Yuko live, and delve into the idea of becoming part-machine and debating whether she even is still human or not. Bit like Katsura.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby GojiDog » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:49 pm

Okay this is becoming a running gag with me as every animated thing I watch now that looked great, I go "Man...why couldn't the Godzilla anime trilogy look like that?".

Well, I finally started watching Attack on Titan, and I'm through season 1.

MAN! WHY COULDN'T THE GODZILLA ANIME TRILOGY LOOK LIKE THAT?!?!

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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby Titanoterror98 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:13 pm

SonOfGorgo wrote:
Titanoterror98 wrote:In terms of animation, I'd have the human/alien characters and backgrounds be hand-drawn, and the monsters, mech and ships be computer-animated.

This is something that I keep talking about when I make suggestions for the former and future anime series. If they had less cgi objects in the film, there would be less polygons; less polygons would make it easier for the animators to create more expressive and dynamic monsters. I may not be an Evangelion fan, but I admit that the Rebuild series is a beautiful demonstration of this technique.

You made some actually very valid points. Kudos.[/quote]


Another unrelated note, I'd also let Yuko live, and delve into the idea of becoming part-machine and debating whether she even is still human or not. Bit like Katsura.[/quote]

Hey thanks!

I also like your Yuko idea. Katsura is one of my favourite characters in Godzilla history, and it would have been could for exploring the movies theme of the cost of sacrificing one's humanity like you said. Would she still act or think like Yuko? Would she do if she was being controlled by the nanometal? Could she still be saved? It would be more interesting than whathe movies actually did where either you go comatose (Yuko and most of the Bilusaludo in MechaG City) or you retain your consciousness but your model gets a new alt skin (Galu-Gu).

Really, I felt like they could have done a lot more with the girls in here, too. Heck, they could have had at least a few more females in the cast or just the background even! (Seriously, does anyone know what female Bilusaludo look like? Or are they really all just stocky males?) You'd think that the guy who wrote a critically-acclaimed magical girl series could do more with female characters. But who has time for good female characters when you're writing angst about men with anger issues am I right? :roll:
Last edited by Titanoterror98 on Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Postby bugmolly » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:32 am

I would have liked to see more monsters running around, like an actual Monster planet with an ecosystem filled with giant monsters struggling to survive.


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