Heisei Monster Discussion: Dagarah

[Blackout286]

I'm not trying to do that Goji, simply saying that there are other creature designs that look far worse than Dagarah.
Saying that the design is not to your liking or just doesn't click with you, I'll understand. But saying that its the most ugliest horrifying crap design ever created is pure hyperbole.

[Arrow]

But why should that matter? The fact that there are worse monsters out there than Dagarah doesn't excuse the monster's terrible design and execution in one of Toho's worst monster films. Other monsters, as bad as they are, should be irrelevant.

[KaneLocke]

But they're not irrelevant. I don't see how Dagarah looks "just plain bad." Unrealistic and stiff? Sure. But, honest to God, I haven't seen one solid shred of evidence that he looks "bad."

There are other suits that look like glorified props that people praise, and they don't get shit for defending them. I'm just pointing out a double standard that's emerging.

[TokyoVigilante]

More or less, yeah it kinda does. Especially when knowing full and well that the movie is fiction like any other kaiju film anyways so really.

..So fictional creatures can't look real by default? What? seriously, what?

Tormentor gave a list that pretty tells of props and suits that had much worse execution than Dagarah, especially Megaguirus with strings clearly showing and that looked stiff and lifeless.

Megaguirus made up for technical limitations (and I'm not denying that there aren't any) by having a really interesting design. Pseudo-reptilian Dragonfly > sea dragon with random bits attached.

Same with the Varan prop from DAM.

Think there was a reason the Varan prop got all of 12 seconds of screen time?

Does it justify? Yeah, if those mistakes carried from early Toho films, they'll sneak within future films as well. That's being pretty much logical and realistic.

So 40 year old mistakes by completely different technical crew working with less money justifies the sloppy handling of a prop by a completely different crew working with more money?

That makes less then no sense; that's like anti-sense. You owe me sense.

Wow, over exaggerating much? Seriously. That's not even a logical and suitably similar comparison in any shape or form even if its a device of trying to describe how bad you think the design is.

Are you saying that Dagarah doesn't have an awkwardly stupid body shape with stubby arms and legs? I'm hoping we're talking about the same monster here. All I was comparing was strictly the body shape.

Find a kaiju that is similar enough to Dagarah in physical appearance that looked better and had better execution. If you do then by all means, until then the hyperbole stuff really has to be cut down. I understand that you clearly dislike both the design and the execution of the creature above anything else. And I respect your opinion and acknowledge it for where you stand. But can you at least acknowledge that there are props even suits that have been executed more worse as well as designs crafted by Toho than Dagarah. Can you at least acknowledge that.

Holding older suits and props to the standards of the mid-90s is stupid. They had more money and resources available to them then they did in the 60s and yet there are still dozens of examples where the sixties were able to trump what came out of the nineties.

But hey, lets use a relevant example. RoM2 comes out in 1997. Only a year previously, using less money, Daiei put together Gamera 2 and the Legion. A much better executed and better designed creature then Dagarah can ever dream of being; Legion isn't even all that original (origin wise), and it's still a better monster.

[Legion1979]

Mothra 2 is one of my least favorite Toho monster movies. I really have no use for it or any of the other Mothra movies. I don't think I've even watched Mothra 2 in at least a decade. I just don't care.

So why would I give a rat's ass about Dagarah? Usually favorite movies and favorite monsters go hand in hand for me. I'm not going to like Dagarah in spite of the awful movie it starred in.

[Hellspawn28]

I can't believe people are bashing the monster for being unrealistic when 95% of the Godzilla movies are unrealistic.

[Primevalgodzilla V2]

Dude, Dagarah just looks plain bad, that's all me, and a few others are saying. You can spin it how ever you like, you're not going to change anyone's opinion here. It's just a bad creature design, plain and simple.

He's not trying to.

Personally, I don't see what's so bad about Dagahra. He's a little generic, sure. But he doesn't look atrocious. And he is a much more interesting monster than say, the likes of Megalon.

There are other suits that look like glorified props that people praise, and they don't get shit for defending them. I'm just pointing out a double standard that's emerging.

Yeah, I notice that alot too.

[edgaguirus]

We're all entitled to our opinion. Dagahra isn't spectacular in design, but he does look interesting.

[TokyoVigilante]

I can't believe people are bashing the monster for being unrealistic when 95% of the Godzilla movies are unrealistic.

You're right! Lets totally not take into consideration Dagarah's stiff movements, awful flight, and shooting skreeonk neon red smoke out of its cannons like a cheap ZF-monster.

We should never ever complain about stock footage, stock music, visible wires or holes in the suit necks, because we've seen all those before. Where the hell did peoples standards go? Why do they suddenly not apply to monster designs that have a fanbase? Destroyah, Legion, Desghidorah, Irys, and Grand King Ghidorah are all creations from around this time period and they look fantastic. Destroyah, Legion, and Irys look amazing (even if their execution can be a little off at times), Desghidorah is probably one of the best things Kawakita ever worked on, and Grand King Ghidorah is a fan favorite for a very good reason.

And smack dab in the middle is something that looks more like an over-detailed Zone Fighter monster then something that meets the bar established before it.

I see people complaining about other props being glorified; like what? Do enlighten since no ones actually listed any.

[Tyler]

Dagarah's gonna make Barem shoot out of your toilet.

[Godzilla 1995]

Dagarah's gonna make Barem shoot out of your toilet.

Ah, so they're crap-eating starfish.

[KaneLocke]

I can't believe people are bashing the monster for being unrealistic when 95% of the Godzilla movies are unrealistic.

You're right! Lets totally not take into consideration Dagarah's stiff movements, awful flight, and shooting skreeonk neon red smoke out of its cannons like a cheap ZF-monster..

So, you hate Destroyah as well? Battra? Heisei Rodan?

I could go on.

[Blackout286]

I can't believe people are bashing the monster for being unrealistic when 95% of the Godzilla movies are unrealistic.

You're right! Lets totally not take into consideration Dagarah's stiff movements, awful flight, and shooting skreeonk neon red smoke out of its cannons like a cheap ZF-monster..

So, you hate Destroyah as well? Battra? Heisei Rodan?

I could go on.

Kane does have a point, also even Legion from Gamera 2 looked like a cheap ZF monster imo.

And to add onto Kane's List:
SpaceGodzilla-stiff slugish movements
Grand King Ghidorah, wing movements were piss poor, neck movements were stiff and didn't even move fluid like that Showa King Ghidorah displayed.
As stated before, Orga-stiff large hands that don't even open or close. Seriously, this alone is more horrible.
Megagurius-Visible strings, awful stiff flight. Sometimes even looks alone isn't enough to cover those flaws.
Monster X- good design but not the best execution, made it more obvious that it was a man in a suit.
Keizer Ghidorah-duck taped stiff neck movements, small poor designed legs and feet, and body overall. Short wings? Really? Short wings on a huge mass of body? Good design, but shitty structure and execution.
GMK Ghidorah-lighly stiff wing movements, chicken feet....Chicken feet.....Even in Adult form it had bad execution. Godzilla GMK was pretty much the best executed monster throughout the film, next to Baragon and Mothra.
Godzilla 2002/2003/SOS-My favorite design of Godzilla, ya know within that series's timeline. But I'll admit that it was executed pretty bad and looked stiff. But none the less I still love it and don't mind it so long as I enjoy it. Which I did.
Godzilla 1985, stubby stiff leg movements, chick-rex arms...Awful execution...Need I say more?

[Primevalgodzilla V2]

Kane does have a point, also even Legion from Gamera 2 looked like a cheap ZF monster imo.

Are you serious?!

Even as a Daggy Fan, Legion is far and away the superior monster, in abilities, execution, and creativity. Legion's execution and design blows most of the Godzilla's kaiju outta the water.

[Blackout286]

Kane does have a point, also even Legion from Gamera 2 looked like a cheap ZF monster imo.

Are you serious?!

Even as a Daggy Fan, Legion is far and away the superior monster, in abilities, execution, and creativity. Legion's execution and design blows most of the Godzilla's kaiju outta the water.

Legion, she just didn't really click with me. Her abitlies and designs I have nothing against, just execution. Biollante was much better.

[Arrow]

I'm honestly not very fond of Dagarah either. I can appreciate the design for being different, but that's about where it ends, and nothing else about it really works for me. TokyoVigilante pretty much nailed all my problems with the design itself, so I don't really have anything else to add there. All I can say is that when I'm judging monster suits, I can never fully separate the design from the execution so the monster's poor performance on-screen does play a factor in my perception of him overall. And I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm either neutral to or plain dislike almost all of the other monsters listed before.

[Goji]

Kane does have a point, also even Legion from Gamera 2 looked like a cheap ZF monster imo.

No, it didn't...at all. Now you're just sounding like a sour puss who's annoyed because nobody agrees with him.

Relax.

[Tormentor]

Kane does have a point, also even Legion from Gamera 2 looked like a cheap ZF monster imo.

No, it didn't...at all. Now you're just sounding like a sour puss who's annoyed because nobody agrees with him.

Relax.

Gotta like illogical assumptions sometimes, its fairly amusing to watch. He doesn't sound like a sour puss, even I think Legion is a cheap ZF monster. But more as the series finale type. I expected slightly more movement when it came to her, the movements were similar to Destoroyah mixed with some Biollante. Don't get me wrong, shes a powerful creature with a good design. But like some people's opinions here about Daggy, or any other kaiju for that matter. Is that it just didn't click. Furthermore, I agree with him. Sheesh, just because someone dislikes something about a popular fan based-wise kaiju that they think was done well overall that they have to assume that the opposing person are whining or being a poor sport. Hell, I don't even like Godzilla 1964, a suit that's praised deeply and that most fans crap themselves over. My number 1 favorite is the Godzilla 1965/66 suit. It clicked with me, and even when it looked like the cookie monster and was wrapped in Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster I still loved it and still do now.

I believe that its very well established that everyone's opinions are different based on what clicks with them and what captures their interest.

[Goji]

I love how some of you STILL haven't explained how Legion looks like a "cheap Zone Fighter monster". What the hell does that even mean? There is hardly anything in the Tokusatsu genre that looks as bad as those things, save for an Ultraman enemy here and there. Legion is an example of a well executed creature design. Dagarah is not. I don't see how you could honestly defend the thing to the point where you're making illogical statements like- "Dagarah sucks huh? Uh....well....uhhh.. so does *insert obviously better executed creature design*!!".

Opinions are just that. Opinions. We can argue all day, but from I can tell, the generally consensus is that Dagarah wasn't executed well, on top of looking dumb as shit. For those of you that need it spelled out for you, this means a majority of fans thinks Dagarah sucks. I honestly feel some of you are simply being willing blind to it's faults because of some kind of personal attachment to the thing. It looks stupid, was executed poorly, and stars in the worst SPX film to ever come out of Toho. It's an opinion that most people can agree on, and I think we should just leave it at that.

[Legionmaster]

It looks stupid, was executed poorly, and stars in the worst SPX film to ever come out of Toho. It's an opinion that most people can agree on, and I think we should just leave it at that.

But I can't agree with that, which is the point we're trying to make. Don't talk about things just being opinions, but then have the audacity to tell us that we should just accept that ours are wrong.

I don't give a shit how poor the execution was, I still think Dagarah looks hella cool.