The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2012)

[Goji]

Question for everyone; is it possible to fairly blend these two universes? Can you create a scenario that compliments both titular monsters, while not sacrificing story or human characters? I've been interested in the original run of AvP by Darkhorse for this reason (the bottomless number of spin-offs, sequels, mini-series not so much).

Dude, I'm been singing the same tune for years now! The source material from that first story was SUCH a good thing to work with when it came time to make the AvP film...but it was ignored almost completely (except for the captured Queen in chains, which in the comics, is usually kept chained up on the ship WITH the Predators, not frozen in a pyramid, underground.. in the arctic..). There was some interesting stuff in the AvP:WAR comic series from the early 90's (spanning 5 issues, #0-5). We were able to see what life with the Predators was like for Machiko (who went on to live/hunt with the Predators at the end of the original comic), and I found that to really interesting, and a step in the right direction. The art wasn't too great after issue #0, but overall the series wasn't bad.

The entire "Predator pyramid" thing was just made up for the AvP film. Unfortunately, the recent AvP game seems to be more closely associated with the canon of the current AvP films, because of presence of said pyramid, and literally almost nothing from the AvP comics.

[zilla103192]

^ i really enjoyed the WAR series. the concept of a human, living amoung the predators is fantasic. i loved it.

[wataru]

The problem with DHP's AVP stuff is you have to read the Aliens and Predator self titles. They overlap since theyre in the same universe. Also, the artwork is meh.

[Tyler]

There was space in those panties, fo' sho.

Pink parts.

[Mini-Godzilla]

Predator is pure B-film utterly without pretension.

Well, the Predator sequels moreso than the first one. McTiernan comes off quite pretentious in the commentary. Both the director and the composer saw the film as a satire, although the original writers and the producers did not see it that way.

I grow more and more convinced that, while Alien/Predator crossover is a novel idea, that they're aren't compatible. To force Alien into the Predator mold would be an injustice to Alien, and to try and build Predator up to something like Alien wouldn't work.

I've been saying this since the release of the first AVP film (and thinking it even longer), and fans always become quite irate when I insist that the Alien tetralogy exists in a higher (i.e. more artistic) class of cinema than the Predator series (which includes the AVP movies in my mind).

The source material from that first story was SUCH a good thing to work with when it came time to make the AvP film...but it was ignored almost completely.

An earlier script by Peter Briggs (who is a huge fan of Alien and even had a published dispute with James Cameron over the changes that he made to the creature's life cycle in Aliens) followed the first Dark Horse story arc faithfully, but it was scrapped for the awful Anderson script.

The same thing happened with his Freddy vs. Jason script, although I'm not too upset over that one. He also wrote an intriguing script for Highlander: The Source, but the producers told him that the script was too ambitious (the subsequent film was unwatchable).

I would ask Briggs for some more info about the AVP script, but the last time I talked to him, I discouraged him from using Ryan Reynolds in his upcoming film...right before Reynolds got the Green Lantern gig...so he might still hold a little grudge against me over that little bit of questionable advice.

[KaneLocke]

Not more artistic, I think. Just different. Alien movies try to be action/horror, and the Predator movies are just cheesy B-movies with awesome creature.

[Mini-Godzilla]

No, the Alien movies (with Aliens actually being weakest in this respect) are largely art films, obsessed with bizarre, grotesque, and stunning imagery more than plots or characters. They are made to overwhelm and unsettle the audience in the same way that a particularly shocking and horrific painting would. The Predator films are less concerned with visual stimulation and more interested in adrenal stimulation.

[KaneLocke]

See, I can see that in the cases of Alien and Alien 3. However, neither Aliens NOR Resurrection really have that effect. Those two movies are the action/horror I was talking about. Both focus more on the characters and action sequences without losing that touch of "disturbing." Well, Aliens does lose it a lot compared to the rest, but still.

I've also never thought of those "horrific" paintings to be truly art. At least, not to an extent. I realize you cannot truly define art, but those paintings, to me, are no different than the Saw/Hostel/Gore-porn movies. There is SOME artistic invention, some point to make, but it's buried under a lot of pointless shock-factor. I find "shock" to be utterly unrelated to art most of the time.

From an artistic standpoint, though, you have to look at the types of movies you're dealing with. Predator was never meant to be shocking or bizarre, like Alien was. It's art was in the entertainment aspect. I said it a couple pages back, Predator achieved it's goals far better than Alien. The alien movies almost try TOO hard to be artistic, to be something more than what they are. Predator movies have been more grounded. They're B-rate scifi action and they've embraced that. I just don't see the Alien movies as shocking, grotesque, or bizarre. I can see that was their INTENT, but, and this is just for me as it seems to conflict with what almost everyone else says, it just doesn't quite do it.

[Goji]

[

The source material from that first story was SUCH a good thing to work with when it came time to make the AvP film...but it was ignored almost completely.

An earlier script by Peter Briggs (who is a huge fan of Alien and even had a published dispute with James Cameron over the changes that he made to the creature's life cycle in Aliens) followed the first Dark Horse story arc faithfully, but it was scrapped for the awful Anderson script.

Very interesting indeed. I've definitely known of the aborted script for the original AvP film, but I've never had a chance to read it. I know it was originally was set to be released in the mid 90's, and but never materialized. CAPCOM's "ALIEN VS. PREDATOR" arcade game from 1994 apparently used a lot of elements from said script (including having Dutch from the original PREDATOR). Though because I've never had a chance to read it, I've never been able to make comparisons, and see what liberties were taken with the already established characters form the ALIEN/PREDATOR/AvP (comics) canon.

[Hellspawn28]

I read Peter Briggs screenplay for the AVP movie that was plan to be released back in 1993 or 1994. It was great, and much better then the movie that we have got. Ronald Emmerich was once attached to direct the movie before he did IPD and GINO.

Here is a image of the front cover of the screenplay:

[wataru]

Aliens vs Preator vs Marvel Zombies.

Fund this, win the universe.

[miguelnuva]

so do the aliens defeat the predators by the time the alien films start.

[zilla103192]

^no.... it just takes place where and when there are no predators hunting people or aliens at the current time and place

[Tyler]

Alien
Aliens: Special Edition
Predator
Predator 2

That's all I really care about.

[Arrow]

Alien
Aliens: Special Edition
Predator
Predator 2

That's all I really care about.

Almost the same with me. Just replace Predator 2 with Predators.

[Tyler]

My AVPR thread was converted to a whole franchise discussion for a reason, so bump.

[Mini-Godzilla]

I don't care about any of the Predator sequels. Although AVP stands out as the worst (by far), I don't see anything about Predator 2, AVP:R, or Predators that gives any of those entries an edge over the others. They're all bland, pointless, and vastly inferior to the original film. That's not to say that they aren't okay weekend-afternoon mindless entertainment, but I still think that Predator stands best by itself.

Of course, I don't even like Predator as much as the first three Alien films, so there you go.

If I had to rate them (and it's splitting hairs with the Predator sequels):

Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Predator
Predators
AVP: Requiem
Predator 2
Alien: Resurrection
Alien vs. Predator

[gvamp]

For those of you who waited the Anthology, the films are now being sold separte.

http://bluray.ign.com/articles/115/1155404p1.html

Not sure if you'll lose any extras or not as I didn't read the article all the way through yet.

[The One and Only]

Courtesy of artist Brad McGinty, in the tradition of those cut images of such daikaiju as Godzilla, Gamera, and their ilk, will appreciate this(http://www.dreadcentral.com/news/48987/see-what-makes-yourfavorite-alien-tick).

[Mitchal]

Courtesy of artist Brad McGinty, in the tradition of those cut images of such daikaiju as Godzilla, Gamera, and their ilk, will appreciate this(http://www.dreadcentral.com/news/48987/see-what-makes-yourfavorite-alien-tick).

I don't like it. Not at all like Giger's vision of a horrible penis monster.