Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

[Arrow]

Since i just got all the VHS version's on this era of films, Clearly ''Godzilla 1985'' is the best... The dubbing is great, Godzilla looks actually like a Monster, the character's were pretty decent for a Godzilla film.. I don't see how anyone can say there ''dull'' considering most character's of the late 60's film's were complete shit. I agree the ''Score'' was FANTASTIC an really added a lot to the movie.

''Godzilla vs Biollante'' to me is actually 1 of the best ''VS'' movies of the series since the Original ''Godzilla vs Mothra''
The character's here are also once again quite decent for a Godzilla movie, an the score is once again pretty well done.. The only difference is the Visual's in this movie are more impressive then in ''Godzilla 1985''

Hm, while your opinion is your own I'll have to disagree. (IMHO) If anything, the characters in The Return of Godzilla are its biggest fault. For the most part, I see them as pretty uninteresting and the acting as largely mediocre. That's a serious issue in a film that relies on tension and an actual investment in the plot - as opposed to the more light-hearted, escapist films of the '60s (and even then the actors usually turned in solid performances, even if the characters never really developed. Character development in Godzilla films is a rarity, sadly). Because of the weak human element, I have problems feeling anything when I really need to. The dubbing is okay, and I'll agree that it's not as bad as the later Heisei and Millennium films (or even some of the Showa ones), but aside from Raymond Burr (who does the best with what he's given) I never really saw it as anything to write home about.

In the case of Biollante - the weak human element and the all-over-the-place story is largely what keeps it from being "one of the best VS movies", to me.

[Thanos6]

At one point you hear the Russian characters clearly saying something about "Los Angeles", though the subtitles only translate "It must be one of the new American subs". Same goes with the International dub, does anybody know what they were saying?

A Los Angeles-class submarine.

[Goji]

Since I have way too much nostalgia invested in both of the 80's Godzilla films, and honestly think they kill the garbage we got in the 90's (weather it be in regards to SPX, acting, or plot, the 90's stuff sucks ass, I'm sorry), so I hate a slightly biased look, however I DO recognize the faults the the two 80's films have. BIOLLANTE was experimental in a lot of ways, but when you consider all it's faults...it's still better than almost everything we've gotten in the past 20 years. THAT's why the film gets so much praise (is it really that hard to see this?). As "mediocre" as you may feel the film is, it's still better than basically everything we've gotten since (sans maybe GMK, but that's pretty arguable). RETURN OF GODZILLA is nothing special sans the music, SPX, and atmosphere...but guess what, I'd take it over the tripe we got in the 90's, and the derivative works of Tezuka in the 2000's. Is it "better" than the stuff that came later? Not really, because unfortunately the Japanese version is still fairly boring, and the ending of the film is ruined pretty early on. Weather or not the good's outweigh the bads really comes down to personal preference, and what one looks for in what makes a Godzilla film "good".

In regards to the dubbing, GODZILLA 1985 was dubbed at Ryder Sound (or Glen Glen Sound, drawing a blank here) where MONSTER ZERO was dubbed in 1965, while all the Toho SPX films that followed (BIOLLANTE-FINAL WARS, as well as the REBIRTH OF MOTHRA films) were dubbed by Corporate Communications Ltd. in Hong Kong, which are best known for dubbing the 70's Godzilla films. Unfortunately, CCL was bought out by a different company, and most of the voice actors changed in the time between TERROR OF MECHAGODZILLA and BIOLLANTE. The charming dubs of the 70's fit those films..but the voice acting just didn't work in the films after the 70's. GODZILLA 1985's dub is above and beyond any dub we've had for a Godzilla film since. Anyone that doesn't agree clearly hasn't seen/heard/sampled how bad the dubbing is in films from 1989-2004.

[TokyoVigilante]

I will hopefully be able to post a better review of both eighties Godzilla films (HK DVDs, ftw!) around Christmas time, but for now, I will give G85 props for being one of the very few Godzilla films that makes Godzilla looks genuinely gigantic. Gojira, KKvsG, GvstT, G85, and a few shots of GMK are probably best for that.

[Hotrod93]

I don't like it, it's like the first one where Godzilla doeosn't fight another monster.

Your 9-14 right?

[Arrow]

Yeah I'm pretty sure he's just trolling. Ignore him, guys. Let's not derail the thread.

[Hotrod93]

Yeah I'm pretty sure he's just trolling. Ignore him, guys. Let's not derail the thread.

Agreed lol.

But regardless of trolling or what, a monster film doesnt always need a second monster for the main monster to fight. Some movies work better off the fact of not having a second monster in the film so more focus and story can be devolped with the one monster and/or Characters in the film.

[Hotrod93]

Yeah I'm pretty sure he's just trolling. Ignore him, guys. Let's not derail the thread.

Agreed lol.

But regardless of trolling or what, a monster film doesnt always need a second monster for the main monster to fight. Some movies work better off the fact of not having a second monster in the film so more focus and story can be devolped with the one monster and/or Characters in the film.

And how much development was put into THE RETURN OF GODZILLA? I always thought the characters in that movie weren't the least bit interesting. Of the 3 Godzilla films were Godzilla didn't fight another monster, GODZILLA KING OF THE MONSTERS! is the only one that shines.

Wasnt just talking about Godzilla Returns, The movie also makes up by introducing Super X and having it nearly killing Godzilla.

Sure the characters werent some of the best at times but parts like the ending were you see the emotion in their eyes when Godzilla is falling into the Volcano and just knowing that they were thinking "Oh god what have we done" even though Godzilla just destoryed the city. It makes them seem human and you can connect to them.

Please tell me you werent also counting GINO as one of the films >_<

[Hotrod93]

Please tell me your werent also counting GINO as one of the films >_<

Sure, why not? After all, the movie is called "GODZILLA".

You just cant compare it bro, you just cant lol.

Godzilla KOTM: Had a meaning behind it and followed by an entire series following it.
Godzilla Returns: Set up for the Heisei series

GODZILLA: A reskinned version of another monster film with another monsters name.

[Arrow]

Anyway, I watched the film over the Thanksgiving break. I know I trash this movie a lot (and probably will in the future), but the special effects work is probably among the strongest in the Heisei series. I still remain highly impressed with the Tokyo set to this day and Return boasts my favorite incarnation of the Super-X. The musical score is among my favorite in the series. And I do appreciate the attempt to take the character "back to his roots" (even if Godzilla's depiction in the film is completely off compared to the actions of the original Godzilla in 1954). Watching the film again and comparing it to Toho's half-assed efforts in the 1990s makes a world of difference. I still don't like this movie, it's one of my least favorite Godzilla films, and I still find Godzilla vs. Biollante to be an average film that's become ridiculously overrated, but - at the very least - there's an element of effort that seemed to have gone into this film (and Biollante) that is missing from the rest of the Heisei Godzilla films and a good amount of the Millennium film as well. I can applaud Return for that, at the very least.

But, when it comes right down to it, I'd rather watch Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, as bad as it is. Is it an inferior film? Yes. It is. But I find it to be a lot more fun, if only because of the added presence of another monster.
tl;dr version:

PROS - excellent special effects/miniatures (the Tokyo set in particular), musical score, concept and an actual effort put into the movie
CONS - bland and unmemorable human characters, mediocre acting, Godzilla suit, depiction of the Godzilla character, pacing

[Hotrod93]

Anyway, I watched the film over the Thanksgiving break. I know I trash this movie a lot (and probably will in the future), but the special effects work is probably among the strongest in the Heisei series. I still remain highly impressed with the Tokyo set to this day and Return boasts my favorite incarnation of the Super-X. The musical score is among my favorite in the series. And I do appreciate the attempt to take the character "back to his roots" (even if Godzilla's depiction in the film is completely off compared to the actions of the original Godzilla in 1954). Watching the film again and comparing it to Toho's half-assed efforts in the 1990s makes a world of difference. I still don't like this movie, it's one of my least favorite Godzilla films, and I still find Godzilla vs. Biollante to be an average film that's become ridiculously overrated, but - at the very least - there's an element of effort that seemed to have gone into this film (and Biollante) that is missing from the rest of the Heisei Godzilla films and a good amount of the Millennium film as well. I can applaud Return for that, at the very least.

But, when it comes right down to it, I'd rather watch Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, as bad as it is. Is it an inferior film? Yes. It is. But I find it to be a lot more fun, if only because of the added presence of another monster.
tl;dr version:

PROS - excellent special effects/miniatures (the Tokyo set in particular), musical score, concept and an actual effort put into the movie
CONS - bland and unmemorable human characters, mediocre acting, Godzilla suit, depiction of the Godzilla character, pacing

Its pretty much a movie you gotta go in with an open mind and ready for so monster action, Not for a wonderful story or characters.

[Hotrod93]

Im not going to get in a flame war over something as stupid as this.

All im saying and everyone else around here is that GODZILLA isnt a true Godzilla movie and cant be compare to other Godzilla films when it comes to "Stand alone".

[Arrow]

GODZILLA is technically a Godzilla film. It was approved by Toho as a Godzilla film. That's the problem with it and where the acronym GINO (Godzilla In Name Only) comes from. The monster is so off the mark, however, that fans reject it. If Godzilla had been... Godzilla, people wouldn't have any trouble in accepting it as a Godzilla film. It wouldn't have been a good Godzilla film, but still.

Its pretty much a movie you gotta go in with an open mind and ready for so monster action, Not for a wonderful story or characters.

But the "monster action" the film delivers is devoid of any actual energy, IMO. There are some things I like, such as Godzilla's obliteration of the army when he rises out of Tokyo Bay. But the majority of the monster's rampage, where a sleepy-eyed Godzilla accidentally destroys property before coming upon the Super-X, is very underwhelming. Even the battle between the two is... okay. I don't find it to be very suspenseful, seeing as there's no reason to even care about the people inside the machine, but a battle's a battle. That's a big problem for me when it comes to the movie. For a film that tries so hard to be Godzilla, the depiction of the monster itself is so different. The original Godzilla blasted everything - buildings, people - provoked and unprovoked. He was a true war machine. This Godzilla didn't do that. He reminded me of some animal who stumbled ashore. I didn't feel the threat Godzilla presented to Japan like I did in 1954.

[Hellspawn28]

Like it or not, Godzilla 1998 is stated to a lose remake of "Gojira".

[Tyler]

A better title for the '98 film is Godzilla?

[Mini-Godzilla]

The original Godzilla blasted everything - buildings, people - provoked and unprovoked. He was a true war machine. This Godzilla didn't do that. He reminded me of some animal who stumbled ashore. I didn't feel the threat Godzilla presented to Japan like I did in 1954.

I used to take issue with this, but then I realized that Godzilla's behavior in 1984 made sense. In 1954, he towered over almost everything, and he could thus be a malevolent force with little to oppose him. 30 years later, Tokyo has grown into a giant itself, and Godzilla is dwarfed by his surroundings. He can no longer dominate the city because the city overwhelms him almost as much as it does its population. (My only regret is that the filmmakers did not keep him at his original height to emphasize the difference.)

[Ethan]

I thought Godzilla's sleepwalking nature in this film was a result of Kenpachiro Satsuma working inside a suit that was desgined for a much taller actor than him.

[Goji]

I thought Godzilla's sleepwalking nature in this film was a result of Kenpachiro Satsuma working inside a suit that was desgined for a much taller actor than him.

This. On top of that, this isn't the same Godzilla that attacked in 1954, so why would he act the exact same way?

[Hellspawn28]

I don't like it, it's like the first one where Godzilla doeosn't fight another monster.

You never watched the first Godzilla movie from 1954?

[Cinematic Kaiju]

Alright, I've been pondering this for the past couple days but I haven't gotten around to posting this but I have a few questions about Godzilla 84/85. The answer may be right in front of me, but i'm not 100% sure and want to clarify...

1) What did Steve Martin mean by "He's looking for something. Searching. Only if we can figure it out--before it's too late"

and

2) What did Professor Hayashida mean by he just wanted to send Godzilla home?? Did that just mean he wanted to drop Goji in the volcano??