Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

[Hellblaze]

Good movie it's ok but also the last Godzilla film with Raymond Burr in it before he died. The one I don't get is with the birds when they lured Godzilla into the volcano in other movies that never happened except in this it's strange. Well he is a dinosaur after all and those birds are his 'relatives'

[Mini-Godzilla]

Dusting off the old catalog reviews:

The Return of Godzilla
Back before "reboot" was a common movie term, and even before sequel retcons were really that common, Toho wiped the slate clean of the Showa sequels and gave us a nice back-to-basics direct sequel to Gojira. The Big G's 30th anniversary outing is visually impressive, and the haunting music creates a genuinely eerie mood, but the characters could have used some more development, and the ending is merely okay. Still, everyone's favorite radioactive dinosaur looks fantastic, so why complain?

Godzilla 1985
American viewers had a better reason to complain. While New World seemed generally interested in making the new film more accessible to U.S. audiences (and you have to admit that the ads were splendid), they lacked the gifted hand of Terry Morse, and the results are disappointing. Raymond Burr is amusing, but he looks more out-of-place in the Dr. Peppered Pentagon than he would in cheap Tokyo inserts. And the vilification of the Russians is downright pointless and annoying. Even so, it's not as much of a mess as the Americanized King Kong vs. Godzilla, right?

[godzillafan]

it was a great movie, but i think godzillas first apperence was a little too obvious

[Dash 7]

i don't know why this forum seems to hate this film so much. I find it much better made than most of the post Biollante Heisei Godzilla films. It's camerawork is excellent, and the miniature work would not be surpassed until GMK in 2001. The suit just is like a remade Mosugoji to me.

[SuperMonsterZero]

I saw the Japanese version a few weeks ago, and the thing that bothers me the most about this movie is the characters. The doctor, the reporter, that sailor dude and his sister are all terrible and boring. There's really no need for any of them to be in the story, besides the fact that they come up with the plan to use bird calls to lure Godzilla into the volcano. Their scenes lack anything that resembles tension.

However, I really enjoyed the scenes with the politicians. All the REAL story was going on in the Diet! That's also were all the suspense is, and the (mostly) great score by Koroku really helps those scenes. My favorite character is actually that old man with the glasses.

Besides that, I basically feel the same as Arrow (although he forgot to mention that horrendous pop song that plays during the end credits!).

[Ethan]

At one point you hear the Russian characters clearly saying something about "Los Angeles", though the subtitles only translate "It must be one of the new American subs". Same goes with the International dub, does anybody know what they were saying?

[Arrow]

(although he forgot to mention that horrendous pop song that plays during the end credits!)

That's because I actually liked the song. Don't ask why, I just do. It... works, somehow. I pretty much agree with everything else that you said, however.

But for all the hate I give this film, it does do some things right and comes off as more unique and less formulaic than the post-Biollante/i]/pre-[i]Destoroyah Heisei films. There were a lot of great ideas in the film, but the execution is what really killed it.

Musical score kicks ass, though.

[gojira84]

^ I love that song, its so out of place it manages to work

Well look at my user name, that says a lot on this movie. I really love it and its in my top 5 godzilla movies. The score and effects are great, along with the atmosphere the movie brings. I know the characters are dull and I can't really defend that, but I just love this movie.

[Thanos6]

This was the second G film I ever saw, and still one of my favorites. I love the music, the special effects are nigh-perfect (except for the Tokyo Bay scene where Godzilla just lets his beam fly; it WOULD have been awesome if the angle of the beam and Godzilla's mouth had matched), and I actually like the acting and city destruction. I don't care for the right-wing changes the dub threw in, but I do like Steve Martin as the prophet of doom.

[Starfishman]

The only really good thing that Return of Godzilla had going for it was the score, the effects are hit or miss and don't hold up well by today's standards. Ther human characters were just so bland and boring. The suit is okay for my taste and the close up shots don't really match the suit and Godzilla channels a half awake zombie and doesn't destroy all of Tokyo. The ending was good and the scream from the end of the US version was great. The US version's dubbing is okay at best not neither good or bad, just average and doesn't help matters much, Raymond Burr's ending speech was great. The US scenes seemed out of place. I saw the ads on YouTube and they were funny as all hell.

[Goji]

You actually thought the dubbing was bad for GODZILLA 1985? Try watching any of the Godzilla dubs after that (as well as the International dub for RETURN OF GODZILLA) and you'll surely be singing a different tune.

[Ethan]

^Exactly. Godzilla 1985 has great voice acting and lip syncing (contrary to what Roger Ebert has said). It also has some of my favorite lines:

"Godzilla, I was hoping I'd never hear that name again!".
"I'm in his seminary at the university, and I work part time with the institute and I don't like nosy reporters!".
"When mankind falls into conflict with nature monsters are born, I'm just trying to... send him home".
"Sayonara Sucker!".
"Don't act like a bigshot! Heck you just got a town! You wanna hang around with me, you better learn some manners!".

[Arrow]

(I'd considered making a separate topic for this, but figured I'd just ask this in here - technically speaking, it's still on-topic. I suppose it's still a strange question, though.)

Along with the '50s & '60s Godzilla films, it seems that the two Godzilla movies created in the 1980s - The Return of Godzilla (1984) and Godzilla vs. Biollante (1989) - get a lot of love in comparison to the films that came out after (I'm referencing the '90s Godzilla films, of course). Being of an opposite opinion, it's been on my mind to ask what makes these two films so different from the rest of the Heisei Godzilla films. Is it their darker tone? Is it nostalgia? Or is there a quality to these two films that I'm just not seeing?

[Legion1979]

Is it their darker tone?

I'm putting my money on this. You know how some fans are.

[Arrow]

Is it their darker tone?

I'm putting my money on this. You know how some fans are.

I do, but it still makes such little sense to me just how much praise these two films get. In the case of this one - I'm fine with Return being so-called "dark", but it's not as if that somehow makes it a better movie. Despite the darker tone in comparison to the previous films, the musical score, and the solid effects work, the rest of the film falls flat. The human cast fails to be engaging, the characters aren't in the least bit memorable, the action - consisting of Godzilla half-heartedly trashing buildings - is dull. I'd (and I agree with someone else who said this, elsewhere) even venture say that the only reason the end is as effective as it is for me is because of my general love of the Godzilla character himself and not for his portrayal in the movie, which isn't necessarily interesting, devoid of actual personality, and very far off from the original.

[KaneLocke]

See, it is in large part the darker, more serious approach to Godzilla, despite how sloppy the film itself is. However, the musical score is FANTASTIC. The characters are mostly uninteresting, yes, but they're a throwback to the older characters. The film almost seems to be parodying the characters from the original films. The love-struck young man Hell bent on revenge, the wizened scientist who seeks to understand and not destroy, and so on. When you look at it from that perspective, it's not as bad.

The problem with the movie, by-and-large, is the horrifically plodding pace. NOTHING seems to be happening at almost any time in the film. The score and the effects work just seem completely wasted. Despite all this, I still love the movie. Don't ask me why. Nostalgia, maybe.

[Legion1979]

I think most fans who praise these movies as being the best of the series only look at bits and pieces and not the whole picture. And it's no coincidence that these two films don't have official American DVD releases, so it seems most haven't seen them and I'll bet the ones who have only really praise them for the music, suits and special effects. Because that's really the only things these movies have going for them. I do like Godzilla vs Biollante and it's one of my favorites of that era. But is it one of the best? Hell no. There are far too many story, plot, script, direction and character problems for it to be anywhere close to the "best".

[Arrow]

When you look at it from that perspective, it's not as bad.

Personally, I find when it comes to the story and the characters in Return (and Biollante), there's a lot that seems to work in concept but doesn't work out nearly as well as when it comes to screen. I can see, and do agree, that the characters would work as throwbacks to the older characters and I don't have a problem with that. Goro works as a throwback to the reporter archtype (and, hell, making said character male instead of the typical female works as well). The issue is that he isn't in the least bit interesting, nor is the person who plays him extremely noticeable. I personally find that the same applies to most of the cast, therefore wasting what worked as a solid concept. The one character I find to be worth any attention doesn't even appear in the original cut of this film and even then, Steve Martin doesn't exactly do much but at least Raymond Burr gave a solid performance out of what little he had to work with.

Because that's really the only things these movies have going for them.

Which movie? I'd say that the biggest things Return has going for it would be the score and the impressive effects work - I especially love the look of Tokyo, it's downright beautiful. I'll give it that. However, I'm not a big fan of the Godzilla suit. I think it looks downright silly and not in the least bit threatening - not that Godzilla's half-assed "rampage" really helps in that department. That's one of my bigger gripes with the character in this film. In the original, Godzilla at least moved with a purpose and intentionally attacked people and buildings. In this film, I get the impression that Godzilla is just some big animal who stumbled on-shore and started accidentally causing damage. For a film that tries to be a direct callback to the original, they really dropped the ball with the Godzilla character.

The suits in Biollante are a huge improvement. While I think Biollante herself is a bit overrated, I can't deny that this is probably the best original monster since the '70s Mechagodzilla and leagues ahead of the likes of Space Godzilla or Orga. The Godzilla suit is one of the best and he's at least more threatening in his actions than in the previous film. And the special effects only got better. Unfortunately the rest of the film is still lacking. And I generally don't like the music there (Bio Wars is admittedly pretty good by itself, though). The human element doesn't get any better than the previous film either.

I do like Godzilla vs Biollante and it's one of my favorites of that era. But is it one of the best? Hell no. There are far too many story, plot, script, direction and character problems for it to be anywhere close to the "best".

Agreed. I feel that Godzilla vs. Biollante wouldn't be half as glorified as it is if it weren't for the experimental nature of the special effects. Take away those SPFX scenes and there's almost nothing left except for a poorly-paced story that's too stuffed full of subplots to reach its potential, a one-dimensional and forgettable cast of human characters, and a jarring musical score.

[Ethan]

The Return of Godzilla gets love? Wasn't it a critical and commerical failure in the US? Don't most fans consider it a dull and boring entry? If anything, it's a rather underrated film.

[XxComablack1937xX]

The Return of Godzilla gets love? Wasn't it a critical and commerical failure in the US? Don't most fans consider it a dull and boring entry? If anything, it's a rather underrated film.

Since i just got all the VHS version's on this era of films, Clearly ''Godzilla 1985'' is the best... The dubbing is great, Godzilla looks actually like a Monster, the character's were pretty decent for a Godzilla film.. I don't see how anyone can say there ''dull'' considering most character's of the late 60's film's were complete shit. I agree the ''Score'' was FANTASTIC an really added a lot to the movie.

''Godzilla vs Biollante'' to me is actually 1 of the best ''VS'' movies of the series since the Original ''Godzilla vs Mothra''
The character's here are also once again quite decent for a Godzilla movie, an the score is once again pretty well done.. The only difference is the Visual's in this movie are more impressive then in ''Godzilla 1985''

I guess there both extremely popular amongst the fan-base because Godzilla 1985 the only movie worthy to be a Sequel to the Original film. To me it's just that good.. An Godzilla vs Biollante would easily be the final Sequel an it went on very well... After this movie, The Franchise an the dubbing got progressively worse an the character's started to become unwatchable.

Example : ''Godzilla vs Mothra - Battle for the Earth'' has absolutely terrible dubbing.. I can't explain why i like both so much but i hold Biollante an Godzilla 1985 to be ''some'' of the best film's in the entire franchise.