Best End of Era Film

For discussions covering more than one Toho film or show that span across more than one “era.”

Which of the era enders was the best?

Terror of Mechagodzilla (Showa)
32
43%
Godzilla vs Destroyah (Heisei)
40
53%
Godzilla:Final Wars (Millenium)
3
4%
 
Total votes: 75

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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby Legionmaster » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:46 pm

RedZillaKing wrote:See, I always found it to be reminiscent of the sixties... Couldn't you see the Xilien Controller breaking bread with the Simians?

They have funny hat parties with the Kilaaks. No Seatopians allowed.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby TokyoVigilante » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:51 pm

RedZillaKing wrote:See, I always found it to be reminiscent of the sixties... Couldn't you see the Xilien Controller breaking bread with the Simians?

For sure. But the setup with secret agents, Bondian villains, the "mythic" Hero Godzilla, are all tropes that Fukuda mastered. At times it feels like Ifukube's somber score and Honda's conservative and dignified Direction are holding back a more energetic and lively film and that's ultimately why it never sat well entirely with me. But it's definitely an excellent movie and Katsura and Dr. Mafune are characters deserving of more praise.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby Primevalgodzilla V2 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:02 pm

Wait, GxG...so Destoroyah's ending is weak and inneffectual because...its a sad ending? Really? Sad endings suck?

I mea, if you are a traditional filmgoer and just want to have a feel-good/escapist movie, sure, a depressing ending's not exactly going to fulfill that, but I figured you of all people would learn to appreciete the poignant.

Godzilla's ending in ToMG, while unarguably the more feel-good, is just boring.
It is a simple story. There is nothing that brings me happiness. Be it believing in others or them believe in me, it did not matter.
What others called happiness simply did not bring me joy.


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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby TokyoVigilante » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:06 pm

The ending for ToMG doesn't really have any poignancy. Only in hindsight and with the knowledge that it is the last one of an era, style, frame of mind, and way of making these films, does it carry weight.

The ending for GvD is entirely constructed to carry weight and importance. That's why it's a better and more fitting "end of era" film then the other two options.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:15 pm

Primevalgodzilla V2 wrote:Wait, GxG...so Destoroyah's ending is weak and inneffectual because...its a sad ending? Really? Sad endings suck?


...I...never said that. I don't think Godzilla vs. Destoroyah's ending sucks. Quite the contrary. It's just that I much rather prefer Terror Of MechaGodzilla's ending, because when looking at it from Godzilla's angle, in GvsD, he loses everything and then dies. Whereas in ToMG, Godzilla defeats arguably his strongest opponent he's ever faced, stopped an alien invasion force, and is now content with himself over his accomplishments and can live in peace. Out of those two, ToMG's ending is better for Godzilla, so I feel more satisfied with that ending.

Just a personal preference.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby Primevalgodzilla V2 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:21 pm

Still, regardless of your preference of style of ending, Destroyah's last moments present a better sendoff. And its not all doom and gloom either, with Junior's return and whatnot. ToMG's ending (for Godzilla, not the human characters) is just Godzilla turning around and roaring. That's not much of an impressive, emotional end.
It is a simple story. There is nothing that brings me happiness. Be it believing in others or them believe in me, it did not matter.
What others called happiness simply did not bring me joy.


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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby Legionmaster » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:22 pm

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:
Primevalgodzilla V2 wrote:Wait, GxG...so Destoroyah's ending is weak and inneffectual because...its a sad ending? Really? Sad endings suck?


...I...never said that. I don't think Godzilla vs. Destoroyah's ending sucks. Quite the contrary. It's just that I much rather prefer Terror Of MechaGodzilla's ending, because when looking at it from Godzilla's angle, in GvsD, he loses everything and then dies. Whereas in ToMG, Godzilla defeats arguably his strongest opponent he's ever faced, stopped an alien invasion force, and is now content with himself over his accomplishments and can live in peace. Out of those two, ToMG's ending is better for Godzilla, so I feel more satisfied with that ending.

Just a personal preference.

I dunno, reviving your dead son is pretty sweet.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby TokyoVigilante » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:23 pm

You couldn't really end the Heisei series any other way but with Godzilla dying, I don't think. I certainly can't envision a "wrapped up but Happy ending" for that universe by any means. It's suiting.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby RedZillaKing » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:42 pm

What angle? Dinosaur heaven?

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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby Legionmaster » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:45 pm

Cimmerian Dragon wrote:
Legionmaster wrote:I dunno, reviving your dead son is pretty sweet.


But the Big Guy is nothing but radioactive dust by the time that happens, so it's not that great from his angle.

Well it's after the moneyshot anyway, so no one's even watching anymore. Wait...or is that porn?
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby RedZillaKing » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:52 pm

LMAO! I always thought Junior's resurrection somewhat diminished his father's death.

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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:34 pm

Legionmaster wrote:
GotengoXGodzilla wrote:
Primevalgodzilla V2 wrote:Wait, GxG...so Destoroyah's ending is weak and inneffectual because...its a sad ending? Really? Sad endings suck?


...I...never said that. I don't think Godzilla vs. Destoroyah's ending sucks. Quite the contrary. It's just that I much rather prefer Terror Of MechaGodzilla's ending, because when looking at it from Godzilla's angle, in GvsD, he loses everything and then dies. Whereas in ToMG, Godzilla defeats arguably his strongest opponent he's ever faced, stopped an alien invasion force, and is now content with himself over his accomplishments and can live in peace. Out of those two, ToMG's ending is better for Godzilla, so I feel more satisfied with that ending.

Just a personal preference.

I dunno, reviving your dead son is pretty sweet.


Godzilla didn't know that though. At the time of his death, he thought his son was dead. His final opponent was not killed by his hands either, but by the opposition that he had no trouble brushing off every single time (adding insult to injury), and he died for reasons he probably didn't understand.

That's incredibly sad and depressing. I can't think of a worse way to go out.

And for the record, I can't think of another way to end the Heisei series other than Godzilla being killed off. However, the way his death was handled made it seem like the creators just wanted to be as cruel as humanly possible and make everything go wrong for Godzilla at his death. Killing him is fine. Killing his son in front of his eyes, having his final opponent not die by his hands, and dying for unknown reasons (to Godzilla) is just sickening.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby Blackout286 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:12 pm

GotengoXGodzilla wrote: However, the way his death was handled made it seem like the creators just wanted to be as cruel as humanly possible and make everything go wrong for Godzilla at his death. Killing him is fine. Killing his son in front of his eyes, having his final opponent not die by his hands, and dying for unknown reasons (to Godzilla) is just sickening.


I think your over exaggerating the whole death thing lol.

Although I pretty much agree with DagarahX and his statement, Destoroyah Ending was the best, Terror of MechaGodzilla, mmm, not so much.

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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:16 pm

Blackout286 wrote:
GotengoXGodzilla wrote: However, the way his death was handled made it seem like the creators just wanted to be as cruel as humanly possible and make everything go wrong for Godzilla at his death. Killing him is fine. Killing his son in front of his eyes, having his final opponent not die by his hands, and dying for unknown reasons (to Godzilla) is just sickening.


I think your over exaggerating the whole death thing lol.


I don't think I am. I think I accurately described everything that was going on at the end of the film.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby antovald20 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:10 pm

^Everything bad did happen to godzilla, but his son still lives, also You're going to be a film critic, so u should know that not every ending will be a happy one.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby Blackout286 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:17 pm

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:
Blackout286 wrote:
GotengoXGodzilla wrote: However, the way his death was handled made it seem like the creators just wanted to be as cruel as humanly possible and make everything go wrong for Godzilla at his death. Killing him is fine. Killing his son in front of his eyes, having his final opponent not die by his hands, and dying for unknown reasons (to Godzilla) is just sickening.


I think your over exaggerating the whole death thing lol.


I don't think I am. I think I accurately described everything that was going on at the end of the film.


I wasn't clear on my part (Sorry about that, I meant you over exaggerating in the whole creators wanted to be as cruel and as inhumanly as possible. I honestly doubt they wanted, they wanted a emotional ending that made feel a connection with Godzilla, and later on at the end, witness the symbolism that Godzilla will live on and never truly die in the world. That's pretty much what the ending is really about, and with that, makes it the best.

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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:29 pm

antovald20 wrote:^Everything bad did happen to godzilla, but his son still lives,


Again, Godzilla does not know that. From Godzilla's perspective, life cannot get any worse.

also You're going to be a film critic, so u should know that not every ending will be a happy one.


... :roll:

Yes, I'm aware that not every film needs a happy ending. I knew going into Godzilla vs. Destoroyah that it was not going to have a happy ending. However, the film did not need to be so cruel to Godzilla. I'm okay with him dying. But I question the sanity of the writers who decided that death wasn't enough for Godzilla. He not only had to lose his life, he had to lose his family, his pride and his understanding of the world.

I wasn't clear on my part (Sorry about that, I meant you over exaggerating in the whole creators wanted to be as cruel and as inhumanly as possible. I honestly doubt they wanted, they wanted a emotional ending that made feel a connection with Godzilla, and later on at the end, witness the symbolism that Godzilla will live on and never truly die in the world. That's pretty much what the ending is really about, and with that, makes it the best.


And in a film where unnecessary cruel acts are done to Godzilla, going from "You are alone in this world and the world does not care" to "You will never truly die", is incredibly jarring and just doesn't work for how the film was trying to portray it.

That's why I can't say it's the best. I would gladly take Terror Of MechaGodzilla's short but sweet ending over the cruel and jarring ending of Godzilla vs. Destoroyah. Hell, if we're talking about endings to the entire franchise, then neither of those two come even close to the emotional ending to Son Of Godzilla.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby Blackout286 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:56 pm

I doubt Godzilla had any real understanding of the world, and I doubt he really cared about it. The only thing that mattered to him was his territory, surviving, and much later on, his adopted son (When MechaGodzilla II came around). I think fans would somewhat agree that he couldn't care less about the actual world around him. Living was all that really mattered.

I find the portraying to be pretty good, mainly because it makes me feel more connected with Godzilla and the symbolism for the character. Although as stated by another member, TOMG's ending was pretty ordinary, I don't dislike it, but it didn't make me feel anything and it didn't really leave me satisfied with how things wrapped up.

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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:09 am

Blackout286 wrote:I doubt Godzilla had any real understanding of the world, and I doubt he really cared about it.


What I meant by that was Godzilla died for reasons that he most likely did not understand. Everything that he knew about the world, how things died and whatnot, was thrown out of the window because he didn't understand why he was dying. I know that's how I would act if I were dying from an illness that I didn't understand and no one could tell me what it was.

The only thing that mattered to him was his territory, surviving, and much later on, his adopted son (When MechaGodzilla II came around).


And Godzilla lost all three of those in Godzilla vs. Destoroyah. Birth Island was destroyed, he lost his son, and he didn't survive.

Although as stated by another member, TOMG's ending was pretty ordinary, I don't dislike it, but it didn't make me feel anything and it didn't really leave me satisfied with how things wrapped up.


I would gladly take "ordinary" over "cruel and jarring".

Besides, at the time Terror Of MechaGodzilla was made, it wasn't intended to be the last Showa film, it just so happened to be the last one. Looking at the lost projects section of the site, you can see that there were many plans to make other Godzilla films after ToMG. The creators tried to bring Godzilla back, it just never worked. Meaning, Terror Of MechaGodzilla is the reluctant ending of the Showa series. It wasn't designed to be the last one.

So, for what it is, I'm fine with the Showa era ending on that high note: With Godzilla defeating two very powerful monsters with no other monsters to aid him (something he had never done before), stopping an alien invasion, and essentially being at peace with himself. Walking off into the sunset seems appropriate for that situation.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby Viva la revolucion! » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:43 am

This is soooo difficult. I mean, GODZILLA VS. DESTOROYAH is a masterpiece, a GODZILLA FINAL WARS is just so artsy and all. SO yeah, bot hof them, maybe even you can say GOdzilla Final Wars is a sequel.


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