Final Wars: Why all the Hate?

[GotengoXGodzilla]

There's nothing "cheesy" or "campy" about the characters in the Showa series. Hell, most of them aren't even kid friendly. Just look at Godzilla vs. Hedorah or Invasion Of The Astro-Monster. Almost all of the characters in those films are taken very seriously, with little to no joking around.

What you're saying now really isn't making much sense anymore.

Most of the Showa series at least from Son of Godzill and on were/are meant to be campy and kid friendly for the most part.

What I say makes sense it is just another POV.

I don't see any Godzilla film, especially Son Of Godzilla, Godzilla vs. Hedorah, Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla and Terror Of MechaGodzilla as "campy" or "kid friendly". Hell, no Godzilla film as a whole is "campy" or "cheesy". There are a few moments that are like that, like Godzilla flying or Godzilla dancing, but not the entire film. Also, first you were talking about the characters and the acting being "cheesy" and "campy", but now you're talking about the entire films. You need to stay consistent.

Like TV said, the Heisei series is just as kid friendly as the Showa series.

[GodzillaDude]

I never said that the Heisei films were/are only viewed by a more sophisticated audience what I meant was it generally took itself more consistently seriously than Showa.

[TokyoVigilante]

I never said that the Heisei films were/are only viewed by a more sophisticated audience what I meant was it took itself more consistently seriously than Showa.

Except they don't? They're the same grade of adventure story archetypes that the Showa films have. Explorers, reporters, military types, scientists, etc. Aside from "Godzilla 1985" and "Godzilla vs. Destroyah", there is no straight serious Godzilla film from the Heisei era.

[GodzillaDude]

I never said that the Heisei films were/are only viewed by a more sophisticated audience what I meant was it took itself more consistently seriously than Showa.

Except they don't? They're the same grade of adventure story archetypes that the Showa films have. Explorers, reporters, military types, scientists, etc. Aside from "Godzilla 1985" and "Godzilla vs. Destroyah", there is no straight serious Godzilla film from the Heisei era.

I admit that the Heisei films still had that same kind of stuff in it but even the monster fights didn't have something like Godzilla flying or dancing.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

I never said that the Heisei films were/are only viewed by a more sophisticated audience what I meant was it took itself more consistently seriously than Showa.

You've yet to present evidence that proves this point.

And I would make the point that almost the entire Showa series takes itself very seriously. Films like Mothra vs. Godzilla, Son Of Godzilla, Ghidorah, The Three-Headed Monster, Ebirah, Horror Of The Deep, not to mention Godzilla, all talk about issues that concerned the filmmakers at the time of the film's release. The rise of corporate power, the growing size of world hunger, the threat of China, rebellion from the youth, and the fear of nuclear warfare are all themes that are present in these films, and reflect what was happening in the real world. The filmmakers took their work seriously enough to add in themes from the real world to these films.

If people like Ishiro Honda and Jun Fukuda didn't take their work more seriously than the filmmakers of the Heisei era, then we probably wouldn't be talking about the Godzilla films right now.

I admit that the Heisei films still had that same kind of stuff in it but even the monster fights didn't have something like Godzilla flying or dancing.

So suddenly, because the Showa series has one or two moments of being funny, moments which only last a few seconds mind you, that means that the entire Heisei series is more serious than the Showa series?

That doesn't make any sense.

[GodzillaDude]

They were strange enough moments and more strange than anything Godzilla did in the Heisei series. The main point is the Heisei series never at any point did anything as over the top or funny/kid friendly as having Godzilla dance and fly.

[TokyoVigilante]

They were strange enough moments and more strange than anything Godzilla did in the Heisei series. The main point is the Heisei series never at any point did anything as over the top or funny/kid friendly as having Godzilla dance and fly.

You're using two instances that last only seconds to generalize 15 entire films. It doesn't matter that the Heisei films never went as extreme in those two instances, that doesn't excuse them as being the exact same tone and use the same grade of character archetypes as the Showa films.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

They were strange enough moments and more strange than anything Godzilla did in the Heisei series. The main point is the Heisei series never at any point did anything as over the top or funny/kid friendly as having Godzilla dance and fly.

...Moments like that in the Showa series are few and far between. They don't dwell on them. They just happen, the audience has a good laugh, and then it moves on. That doesn't mean that the Showa series is less "serious" (or "strange" now, since you've changed your wording) than the Heisei series. As I said, the Showa series managed to work in fears and problems from the real world into their films, which means that they take what they have to say seriously. Little to none of the Heisei films do that.

[GodzillaDude]

Both of you guys have good points and I seem to have lost this debate but I guess I just find myself taking the notable films of the Heisei series more seriously than the notable films of the Showa series (except Gojira is more serious than any of them). Just in case any of you wondered this...I really do like the Showa series.

Back on topic...I actually really liked Final Wars I thought it was very entertaining with both it's humans and monsters. I even enjoyed the human talking scenes and fights even though they were obviously based on Matrix stuff. Personally I liked the score too and thought Godzilla's suit was good.

[Killswitch]

I find the human characters in the Heisei series to be forgettable. Boring and generic.

[Ethan]

I really like Professor Hayashida, the Prime Minister, and that homeless man.

[GodzillaDude]

We are not talking about the Heisei series in here anymore we got off topic with that lol it is meant to be about Final Wars.

Like I said earlier...

I actually really liked Final Wars I thought it was very entertaining with both it's humans and monsters. I even enjoyed the human talking scenes and fights even though they were obviously based on Matrix stuff. Personally I liked the score too and thought Godzilla's suit was good.

[Goji]

You might as well put that last paragraph in your signature, because I've seen you say the same thing about 17 times already.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

You might as well put that last paragraph in your signature, because I've seen you say the same thing about 17 times already.

Holy crap, I just now noticed it too!

Just look at his last two posts in this thread. They're exactly the same. Jeez, that's pretty sad.

[GodzillaDude]

I only posted that twice to get us back on topic...we were pretty off topic and now we are again.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

I only posted that twice to get us back on topic...we were pretty off topic and now we are again.

...Did you even look at the two posts between your identical posts? The posts by Killswitch and Ethan were on-topic. So no, we were not off-topic. And even if we were off-topic, you could have come up with something better other than saying the exact same thing twice.

[GodzillaDude]

I only posted that twice to get us back on topic...we were pretty off topic and now we are again.

...Did you even look at the two posts between your identical posts? The posts by Killswitch and Ethan were on-topic. So no, we were not off-topic. And even if we were off-topic, you could have come up with something better other than saying the exact same thing twice.

Killswitch said "I find the human characters in the Heisei series to be forgettable. Boring and generic."

The topic is "Final Wars: Why all the Hate?"...how is that on topic?

And I only reposted the same thing so we could continue debating.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

I only posted that twice to get us back on topic...we were pretty off topic and now we are again.

...Did you even look at the two posts between your identical posts? The posts by Killswitch and Ethan were on-topic. So no, we were not off-topic. And even if we were off-topic, you could have come up with something better other than saying the exact same thing twice.

Killswitch said "I find the human characters in the Heisei series to be forgettable. Boring and generic."

The topic is "Final Wars: Why all the Hate?"...how is that on topic?

And I only reposted the same thing so we could continue debating.

No one was forcing you to say the same thing twice, nor to continue the debate. And if you really wanted to continue the debate, then try saying something new. Not the same thing twice. People are going to notice and call you out on it.

[GodzillaDude]

Ah well I'm pretty much done talking about this. My closing statement being that it is one of my favorite Godzilla films and possibly my favorite of all time and that I think it really doesn't deserve all the hate it gets at all. But hey just one Big G fan's opinion right? I'm tired.

[Killswitch]

I only posted that twice to get us back on topic...we were pretty off topic and now we are again.

...Did you even look at the two posts between your identical posts? The posts by Killswitch and Ethan were on-topic. So no, we were not off-topic. And even if we were off-topic, you could have come up with something better other than saying the exact same thing twice.

Killswitch said "I find the human characters in the Heisei series to be forgettable. Boring and generic."

The topic is "Final Wars: Why all the Hate?"...how is that on topic?

And I only reposted the same thing so we could continue debating.

You are correct, its not on topic. You guys got off the topic, and I wanted to add my 2 cents-lol

As for GFW, I find the the human characters to be generic rip-offs from other series of films. I want to see Godzilla, not a Matrix meets Alien meets X-Men type of film. IMO, they needed to capture some of that 1960's Showa style.