Best End of Era Film

For discussions covering more than one Toho film or show that span across more than one “era.”

Which of the era enders was the best?

Terror of Mechagodzilla (Showa)
32
43%
Godzilla vs Destroyah (Heisei)
40
53%
Godzilla:Final Wars (Millenium)
3
4%
 
Total votes: 75

RedZillaKing

Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby RedZillaKing » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:40 pm

^LOL, definitely not, IMO. I'm not really a fan of Destoroyah, tbh. I like to call out B.S. when I see it, though. Speaking of which...

@ GxG: LOL... your statement was that there was nothing special about Destoroyah. I don't care if they matter to you. Your statement was erroneous as there were several things that set Dessy apart. I listed them, you disregarded them. Showa King Ghidorah is great and all, but he's hardly the most expressive character. Flipping your necks around/beam spamming =/= personality. His monster co stars were always way more emotive. The most personality Ghids ever showed? Shooting Goji in the junk.

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:
Not King Ghidorah, MechaGodzilla (Showa), Hedorah or the like. They have personalities and reasons for why they do what they do. I can't say the same for Destoroyah.

King Ghidorah was controlled for the majority of his appearances. His motivations were not his own. Hell, his original motivation was the very one you attributed to Destoroyah. Mechagodzilla was a weapon. His motivations were not his own. Hedorah was hungry for waste. That's pretty deep bro.

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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:55 pm

RedZillaKing wrote: @ GxG: LOL... your statement was that there was nothing special about Destoroyah. I don't care if they matter to you. Your statement was erroneous as there were several things that set Dessy apart.


And IMO, the things that you listed did not make Destoroyah special. Those were things that someone would list for a fantasy match, not describing what sets Destoroyah apart from other kaiju. I'm talking about his personality and reasons for why he acts the way he does. And to be honest, I hardly ever saw either from Destoroyah. That's why I don't think Destoroyah is all that special.

Showa King Ghidorah is great and all, but he's hardly the most expressive character. Flipping your necks around/beam spamming =/= personality. His monster co stars were always way more emotive. The most personality Ghids ever showed? Shooting Goji in the junk.


Cackling the whole time like a mad man, enjoying himself while he destroys the world and monsters around him. That's what makes King Ghidorah so interesting to me. I can tell that KG enjoys doing what he does: destroying worlds.

Not to mention how the original KG was an symbolic message for the rising threat of China at the time of the films release, so his appearance meant something to the real world when the film came out.

King Ghidorah was controlled for the majority of his appearances. His motivations were not his own.


It still felt like his motivations though. It felt like he was still in control, because he was still doing what he normally did, and acted the same way while doing it. He still enjoyed himself while destroying the world. That's good enough for me.

Hell, his original motivation was the very one you attributed to Destoroyah.


King Ghidorah wants to destroy the world, because that's just what he does. He's been doing it for so long, he seems get a thrill out of it (possibly power too), and its what what he lives to do.

Destoroyah wants to destroy the world, because...um...uh...evil?

...See where I'm going with this?

Mechagodzilla was a weapon. His motivations were not his own.


His motivations were that of his controller. He's a robot, of course he's not going to have motivations. I'm talking about the motivations of the Space Apes, especially in Terror Of MechaGodzilla. Way more diverse and well-built than any other alien race before or after.

Hedorah was hungry for waste. That's pretty deep bro.


Hedorah wanted power, and nothing would get in his way. He would stop anything that he came across, and much like King Ghidorah, tries to have fun with it.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby RedZillaKing » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:21 pm

This is a case of projecting things on characters based on how you feel about them. You could say that Destoroyah was sadistic in that he dropped Junior from a great height. But that's based on nothing.

You hear Ghidorah cackling madly, I hear his roar. He makes the same noise all the time, regardless of the situation he's in. He destroys. That's it. Not very deep at all. And for all you know he might hate it. I'm not a big fan of SS4G's "monsters have no personalities, only what we project on them" theory in general. However, it definitely applies in the case of some of Goji's Showa villains.

Nothing you listed at all sets those monsters apart from Destoroyah. Personality schmersonality. Do human motivations give tanks personality?

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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby ScootaVaran » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:52 pm

I went with GvD.
It was the only one that really did feel like an ending of a era. ToMG was just like any other Godzilla movie at the time and Final Wars..well i'll just leave that alone.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby JAGzilla » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:58 pm

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:
Destoroyah wants to destroy the world, because that's just what he does. He seems get a thrill out of it (possibly power too), and its what what he lives to do.

King Ghidorah wants to destroy the world, because...um...uh...evil?


...See where I'm going with this?

In the interest of staying on-topic, I'll agree that Mafune and Katsura are excellent, well-developed characters. I almost find myself wanting to watch ToMG more for them than the monsters.

RedZillaKing

Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby RedZillaKing » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:16 pm

^I certainly see what you're driving at.

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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:49 pm

RedZillaKing wrote:This is a case of projecting things on characters based on how you feel about them. You could say that Destoroyah was sadistic in that he dropped Junior from a great height. But that's based on nothing.


This has been talked about before by several other people in the past, and I agree with them: Destoroyah is not sadistic. At all.

You hear Ghidorah cackling madly, I hear his roar.


And that roar sounds like Ghidorah is cackling madly. Its what makes his roar so fascinating. That, and each head has its own different roar.

He makes the same noise all the time, regardless of the situation he's in.


Exactly. Because he's always doing something that he enjoys immensely: Giving pain to others. Gaining power. Destroying worlds. To Ghidorah, doing so is like reaching a state of nirvana.

Not very deep at all.


For a giant three headed golden space dragon that shoots yellow lightning out of its mouths, I would say we're lucky to have gotten any personality or reasons to begin with. I'm fine what we have on Ghidorah's motivations and personalities. I think there's enough there to look in to, and come out with something.

And for all you know he might hate it.


I don't see any evidence in the Showa series that points to that. Ghidorah only hates to die, which is why he flees. Other than that, he enjoys everything he does.

I'm not a big fan of SS4G's "monsters have no personalities, only what we project on them" theory in general. However, it definitely applies in the case of some of Goji's Showa villains.


And I disagree with that. There is enough evidence to support personalities for King Ghidorah, Hedorah, MechaGodzilla, Megalon, Kumonga and even Gabara. You just have to analyze the films, and the films will make the conclusions for you.

Nothing you listed at all sets those monsters apart from Destoroyah.


...Pretty sure I did when I said that King Ghidorah destroyed planets to gain power and because it gave him immense pleasure, and that there's no defined reasons for why Destoroyah wants to destroy the world.

Do human motivations give tanks personality?


If the humans do something with the tank that goes against the norm or makes it an individual, then sure. For example, that one tank operator in The Mysterians. The one that sucked into the sink hole, or whatever that was. Because that one guy went charing ahead, all by himself with tank, it gave him and the tank personality. I remember that tank more than any other tank in The Mysterians.

...See where I'm going with this?


No, no I don't.

Never in GvsD did it seem like Destoroyah was doing this, because it gave him immense pleasure or power. Destoroyah just did it because the plot says so. Ghidorah, on the other hand, we're told that he's done this to multiple worlds, including Venus. He's a planet destroyer with a roar that always sounds like an evil laugh.

To me, that gives Ghidorah personality, and simply makes Destoroyah a plot device, not a character.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby RedZillaKing » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:27 pm

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:
This has been talked about before by several other people in the past, and I agree with them: Destoroyah is not sadistic. At all.

This is where I get confused. You seem to understand my point when it comes to Destoroyah (while making it seem like I said Destoroyah was sadistic, despite the fact that my point was the opposite :roll: )....


GotengoXGodzilla wrote: And that roar sounds like Ghidorah is cackling madly. Its what makes his roar so fascinating. That, and each head has its own different roar.

...and then all progress is clouded by bias. It's great that it sounds like a cackle to you. Sounds like musical notes to me. Where's your proof that it's a mad cackle? It's all about perception here.


GotengoXGodzilla wrote:Exactly. Because he's always doing something that he enjoys immensely: Giving pain to others. Gaining power. Destroying worlds. To Ghidorah, doing so is like reaching a state of nirvana.

:eh: And you get this from.. what? In bold: what we actually know about Ghidorah.

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:For a giant three headed golden space dragon that shoots yellow lightning out of its mouths, I would say we're lucky to have gotten any personality or reasons to begin with. I'm fine what we have on Ghidorah's motivations and personalities. I think there's enough there to look in to, and come out with something.

Ghidorah likes to destroy! He likes to destroy because... um... Evil? Or is it to level up? No wait... it's the euphoria he gets from destroying...

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:And I disagree with that. There is enough evidence to support personalities for King Ghidorah, Hedorah, MechaGodzilla, Megalon, Kumonga and even Gabara. You just have to analyze the films, and the films will make the conclusions for you.

Megalon and Gabara sure. Their goofy, dumb thugs. However, we get that from the things they do. Not from something as superficial as looks or sounds they make. Megalon is the guardian monster/god of the Seatopians. His motivation (destroying humanity for crimes against the Earth) does not automatically grant him a personality. Characterization does that.

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:...Pretty sure I did when I said that King Ghidorah destroyed planets to gain power and because it gave him immense pleasure, and that there's no defined reasons for why Destoroyah wants to destroy the world.

He did it for money and women. Oh and to level up.

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:If the humans do something with the tank that goes against the norm or makes it an individual, then sure. For example, that one tank operator in The Mysterians. The one that sucked into the sink hole, or whatever that was. Because that one guy went charing ahead, all by himself with tank, it gave him and the tank personality. I remember that tank more than any other tank in The Mysterians.

The tank operator had the personality....

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:No, no I don't.

Clearly. And with that, I bow out of this argument.

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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:50 pm

RedZillaKing wrote: ...and then all progress is clouded by bias. It's great that it sounds like a cackle to you. Sounds like musical notes to me. Where's your proof that it's a mad cackle? It's all about perception here.


...

1. That's not bias. I'm not looking down on Destoroyah just because I like King Ghidorah more. I'm giving both of them an equal chance to impress me. It's just that King Ghidorah does a better job at it then Destoroyah does.
2. I say that's a mad cackle, because it sounds like a mad cackle. If a human tried to sound like that, that person would be cackling. Not much more to say then that.

:eh: And you get this from.. what? In bold: what we actually know about Ghidorah.


Given Ghidorah's personality, I believe that Ghidorah destroys worlds, not because he can, but because it gives him immense pleasure. When he causes pain onto other monsters, his limbs are just flailing about like a little kid scoring his first goal in a soccer game. He's achieved what he lives for.

Ghidorah likes to destroy! He likes to destroy because... um... Evil? Or is it to level up? No wait... it's the euphoria he gets from destroying...


I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say with this statement here. I believe Ghidorah destroys, because doing so gives him pleasure. That's my opinion. I'm not saying you have to agree with me. You're free to believe whatever reason that you want for why Ghidorah destroys. I'm going to disagree with you, but I'm not going to say you're wrong.

Megalon and Gabara sure. Their goofy, dumb thugs. However, we get that from the things they do. Not from something as superficial as looks or sounds they make. Megalon is the guardian monster/god of the Seatopians. His motivation (destroying humanity for crimes against the Earth) does not automatically grant him a personality. Characterization does that.


They don't get personality from the things they do. They get personality from how they do the things they do. How do they plan to achieve their goals? By what means? How will they handle opposition?

For example, Megalon's plan is to destroy Japan. But what gives him personality is how he destroys Japan: By essentially being a kid in a monster's body and trying to enjoy it, evident by how he hops and jumps around when he's getting from one city to the next, and throws temper tantrums whenever someone attacks him, like the jets or when he's losing against Godzilla and Jet Jaguar.

The tank operator had the personality....


And he projected his personality into the tank, thus giving the tank personality.

Clearly. And with that, I bow out of this argument.


Great job only listening to part of my argument, then jumping to conclusions without seeming to read the rest of it. Seriously, at least take note of the rest of my quote before signing off on it.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby RedZillaKing » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:11 pm

The thing that makes Terror of Mechagodzilla such a great end of era film is the way it actually ends. There's real finality to how Goji leaves it: his enemies are dead or otherwise defeated and he wades out into the sunset, all to the tune of a haunting melody. They basically achieved what G vs. D did withouit killing the main character. And somehow it comes off even sadder....

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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby Destroyer » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:16 pm

When I first read the title, I thought it was on the endings of the three end of an era films. With that said...

My 'favorite' would be Final Wars. To me, it really sent G on a crazy high-note for his 50th birthday. The ending with Godzilla and Minya heading out to sea with the 'End Title' theme playing is my favorite ending of a Godzilla film, a perfect closure.

But the 'best' would have to be Terror of Mechagodzilla. The story with Dr. Mafune and Katsura is one of the most well-done in G history. Not to mention that Titanosaurus is a very cool monster. The final battle ranks as one of the greatest. The ending also has that 'farewell Godzilla' feel. It just makes you feel sad yet content at the same time.

Godzilla vs. Destoroyah gets more hate than I feel it deserves. I thought the human characters weren't that bad, and there's a sense of 'peril' the whole time. Destoroyah is one of my favorite monsters ever, I thought he was the perfect 'final boss.' Great origin and design. To see Junior become the new Godzilla was a nice send-off to the Heisei era.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby XxComablack1937xX » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:33 pm

Terror of Mecha-Godzilla was the best Godzilla film since Ghidorah: The Three headed monster in that era of films. So that get's my vote.

I'm not saying i didn't enjoy some of the other films or at-least minor moment's in them that remind me of my childhood... but most of them were very crappy.

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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby PopInPicsPresents » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:59 am

I found Destoroyah had the best closing to the series. I'm not that big of a fan of Terror or Final Wars for starters. I think Destoroyah had the best closing to the series because it actually made me feel for Godzilla, it killed him off after 7 years of building up his personality and opened possibilities to a new series. In Terror of Mechagodzilla, Godzilla just walks off into the sunset, nothing too too special. Final Wars is pretty much the same thing but not as well done. It doesn't matter how good or bad the films were, what matters was how they ended the series. IMO Destoroyah ended the Heisei series perfectly.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby EikoHarvey » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:17 am

Terror of MechaGodzilla, my favorite Showa movie for the purpose of wrapping up the series.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby Cinematic Kaiju » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:08 pm

I went with Godzilla vs. Destoroyah. Too me, it just seemed very fitting, especially being tied into with the first film, it felt like everything came full circle. Especially it being Akira Ifukube's final Godzilla movie that he scored and Tomoyuki Tanaka's final Godzilla film he produced... Godzilla films after Destoroyah just didn't feel the same without Tanaka. Did I mention the ending credits being BAD ASS?! (Damn you Tri-Star for cutting them off!) 8-)
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby Killswitch » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:39 pm

Godzilla vs. Destoroyah was made to end the Heisei series, the Godzilla meltdown was a nice touch. I never got that feeling with Terror of Mechagodzilla.

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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby The Dark Uniter » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:58 am

The best ending to me has to be Terror of Mechagodzilla, though Godzilla vs Destroyah is pretty damn close. As much as I like Final Wars, I can't say the ending was the best. :)

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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby Rody » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:11 am

Tyler wrote:
Jomei wrote:
TokyoVigilante wrote:Terror of Mechagodzilla is certainly the better film, but Godzilla vs. Destroyah has a better sense of finality and closure to it.


My thoughts exactly. ToM doesn't feel like the end to anything except maybe the Showa Mechagodzilla story. Destroy All Monsters maybe should have been included in this poll. Granted, it doesn't end the "showa series," but it certainly marked the close of an era in a way.


My feelings too pretty much.

I'll quadruple this statement. Terror of Mechagodzilla is a good movie, but as a finale to the series, I felt unsatisfied by it.

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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby MaxRebo320 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:05 am

Gonna have to go with ''Terror''.
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Re: Best End of Era Film

Postby antovald20 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:30 pm

For me Godzilla vs Destroyah. Why? CONTINUITY! And just read everybody's else's posts, there all good reasons.
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