New kaiju game from Matt Frank + Simon Strange [Archive]

[JVM]

Here's an idea for Training mode, that I think sits in line for Mr. Strange's idea - add Training as a difficulty level rather than a mode:

Training
Easy
Medium/Normal
Hard

Maybe even toss in an "Insane/Advanced/Expert" difficulty after Hard, too.

[PopInPicsPresents]

How does everybody feel about really long button combos?

Maybe instead of a Rage move, players can pull off some sort of long combo and unleash an ultimate attack of sorts.

[Fiender]

I have a suggestion, not sure how much attention it'll draw.

Something I felt was missing from all of the games was ambiance in the cities. It felt like I was punching giant cardboard boxes, not buildings. And it felt too much like a giant city set from a Toho movie, not an actual city.

People running on the streets in giant crowds, cities gridlocked with cars trying to flee, buildings that are fun to destroy even if they aren't photo-realistic. At night (if you add that option), the buildings and streets should light up and give your monster the chance to make it all go dark >:)

[JVM]

^ More detail, less maps.

More maps, less detail.

It's a tough line to walk, my man.

[PopInPicsPresents]

^ More detail, less maps.

More maps, less detail.

It's a tough line to walk, my man.

Why not have a vote?

[Mr. Strange]

I have a suggestion, not sure how much attention it'll draw.

Something I felt was missing from all of the games was ambiance in the cities. It felt like I was punching giant cardboard boxes, not buildings. And it felt too much like a giant city set from a Toho movie, not an actual city.

People running on the streets in giant crowds, cities gridlocked with cars trying to flee, buildings that are fun to destroy even if they aren't photo-realistic. At night (if you add that option), the buildings and streets should light up and give your monster the chance to make it all go dark >:)

In G:DAMM, there were working streetlights, cars that followed them (until the monsters got close!), news helicopters, busses running schedules, park benches, and more. Almost 10% of our processing time was spent on the "living city" elements.

We even tried people fleeing from crumbling buildings - but they were basically too tiny to see.

It was my opinion, when we started working on StE, that pretty much all of that was a waste. Even the tanks and military firing at your was mostly a waste - because nobody noticed it. (Except the freeze tanks, or monster air strikes)

[hammysammy59]

Obviously time and money would have to go into little effects like tanks and stuff, but is it also an issue of scale? The monsters in the Pipeworks games were scaled up to meet the sizes of the Heisei monsters, right? The Showa series is by far my favorite, and likely the most famous... it also features significantly smaller monsters. While it might make the monsters a little less awe-inspiring, it makes them able to have much more meaningful interactions with humans, and human-sized vehicles. I'd love to see Showa size monsters in this game.

[Lenbo]

This is the direction we've been discussing - I think it's the best thematic fit for a Kaiju game - sort of like "battle overtime" - you might just lose when your health goes to zero, but you might come back in a stronger attack/weaker defense form to keep trying. Could lead to some epic battles.

Street Fighter x Tekken has an interesting comeback mechanic called Pandora Mode. You can activate it when you have less than 25% health, which then kills your tag partner (if he's still alive), you then get a maxed-out super meter, but a timer then begins to count down, and at the end of 8 seconds you die.

Something along those lines would be interesting. Like as soon as you lose, you become more powerful than ever, but have a limited time to try to KO your opponent. If the opponent lands a hit on you, you're out for good. Think of this in a 3-4 player game. The first person to "lose" has the potential to take out everyone all by himself!

Putting monster stats on the vs screen is tricky - because you have 1/4 or less of the screen to work with. Since we'll be starting on PC, a hover-over solution would probably work really well.

Yeah, or hold down left trigger or something to view stats of the monster you currently have selected.

I really like numbers - they are nice and clear. I'm considering replacing the entire health bar with a defense # (sort of like Smash Bros) to really drive that sort of thing home. A number also helps fit 4 player HUDs on the screen - which is always a problem.

That could definitely work. Also important to note how Smash Bros' number changes to red the more damage the player takes.

If a health meter is used, a good example of clearly displaying health is DOTA 2. The meters are segmented (like StE's energy meter), but in a way that it's clear at a glance which characters have more health than others. The more segments on the health meter, the more health they have.

The idea behind GGPO, as described in that article, is exactly how Spigot already deals with networking. I felt really clever when I designed that system in 2004. I always thought StE had some of the best online combat ever.

It did have very good online combat... with 2 players. 3-4 player matches online had a tendency to get very choppy. We should strive to make it silky smooth no matter how many players there are. Mario Kart Wii for some reason had the most lag-free online mode I've ever seen. Or at least did the most amazing job hiding the lag. And that was with 12 players... on the Wii.

We could be more creative here - why not allow unlocking for single-player, but let everything be available for multiplayer from the get-go? I also think non-critical unlocks, like visual flair on your monster, is a good thing to let players unlock for multiplayer modes - like portraits or titles or the like.

I don't mind this idea except I imagine it might "cheapen" unlocking characters in single-player, if you can just switch to multiplayer to play as them anyways... I'm not sure how other people feel about this.

---

Some more thoughts:

Unlockable Content Ideas
Concept art, 3D monster renders, aesthetic changes (Burning Godzilla for Godzilla 90s), portraits, titles, taunts, alternate victory animations, alternate roars are all cool unlockable content.

Gameplay Ideas
Rolling - I liked rolling gameplay-wise, but as a concept in the Godzilla universe I always thought it was a bit silly. I think Godzilla rolled maybe once or twice in the films, and never for extended periods of time. Visually, rolling looks ridiculous as well. I think perhaps not all monsters should roll, or when they do, have a different animation. Seeing monsters like King Ghidorah or Destoroyah roll seemed really odd. Not sure how other people feel about this.

Get-up Attacks - These were always pretty cool in my opinion. G:U probably did them best animation-wise. However, I think it would be interesting to give monsters multiple get-up attacks. For example: Godzilla could have one where he use hes claws to slash as he gets up, another where he uses his tail, and another where you can use your Atomic Breath/Fireball. It would be really satisfying to blast your opponent from a prone position as you get up. Each could do a different damage type.

This would make get-up attacks more interesting as players will have choices of what they want to do, rather than just roll and use the same get-up attack over and over. It would make the outcome of knocking down an opponent less predictable as suddenly you're not sure what your opponent is going to strike back with.

Survival Mode
This mode has become rather popular of late with AAA games (Call of Duty, Gears of War, Halo, Batman: Arkham City) really have taken it and added their own spin.

If Survival Mode is included, it would ideally support leaderboards. Comparing your high scores to your friends and the world gives this mode longevity and incredible replay value besides just trying to best your own high score.

There are all sorts of possible Godzilla-centric scenarios as well. Monsters vs. Military or Aliens, Monsters vs. Multiple Kamacuras, Final Wars Godzilla vs. Everyone etc.

Of course the standard-keep-fighting-monsters-until-you-die is fun as it is. What I think would be really fun would be a Co-op Survival Mode. You and another monster take on waves of AI controlled opponents. Each team of enemies would be actual team-ups from Godzilla films (Godzilla/Rodan, Godzilla/Anguirus, Kumonga/Kamacuras, Gigan/King Ghidorah, Godzilla/Jet Jaguar, Gigan/Megalon, MechaG/Titanosaurus, Mothra/Battra, GMK Mothra/King Ghidorah, Kiryu/Mothra, Monster X/Gigan,).

I'm sure people could come up with other scenarios or ideas for a Godzilla spin on Survival Mode.

- Lenbo

[JVM]

Obviously time and money would have to go into little effects like tanks and stuff, but is it also an issue of scale? The monsters in the Pipeworks games were scaled up to meet the sizes of the Heisei monsters, right? The Showa series is by far my favorite, and likely the most famous... it also features significantly smaller monsters. While it might make the monsters a little less awe-inspiring, it makes them able to have much more meaningful interactions with humans, and human-sized vehicles. I'd love to see Showa size monsters in this game.

Have to agree with this actually. A Showa scale would be interesting to see.

[Goji]

Yeah, or hold down left trigger or something to view stats of the monster you currently have selected.

Viewing the monsters stats doesn't need to be an option in-game. Having them viewable at the character select screen (like they always have been) is perfectly fine.

It did have very good online combat... with 2 players. 3-4 player matches online had a tendency to get very choppy. We should strive to make it silky smooth no matter how many players there are. Mario Kart Wii for some reason had the most lag-free online mode I've ever seen. Or at least did the most amazing job hiding the lag. And that was with 12 players... on the Wii.

The online play was actually quit good..maybe you just had a bad experience with it *shrugs*. I played matches with four players all the time, and it was very rarely choppy. Two player matches were always spot on for me.

Comparing the online to play to a game that came out 4 years later on completely different hardware (Mario Kart Wii) seems like a pretty unfair fair comparison if you ask me.

Rolling - I liked rolling gameplay-wise, but as a concept in the Godzilla universe I always thought it was a bit silly. I think Godzilla rolled maybe once or twice in the films, and never for extended periods of time. Visually, rolling looks ridiculous as well. I think perhaps not all monsters should roll, or when they do, have a different animation. Seeing monsters like King Ghidorah or Destoroyah roll seemed really odd. Not sure how other people feel about.

Again, this is a video game, not a movie. The monsters are going to have certain actions that don't necessarily represent what they did in the films. Rolling is added for the sake of balance, because it allows you to escape what may otherwise be inescapable situations. It's been in Tekeen for decades for a reason.

Having only some monsters roll would be horrible unbalanced. I am highly against it.

[Lenbo]

Viewing the monsters stats doesn't need to be an option in-game. Having them viewable at the character select screen (like they always have been) is perfectly fine.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I meant holding the left trigger on the character select screen to bring up the stats that you currently have your cursor on, just as an example of how it could mechanically be done.

The online play was actually quit good..maybe you just had a bad experience with it *shrugs*. I played matches with four players all the time, and it was very rarely choppy. Two player matches were always spot on for me.

Comparing the online to play to a game that came out 4 years later on completely different hardware (Mario Kart Wii) seems like a pretty unfair fair comparison if you ask me.

Well G:U was on Wii, and considering this new game will be using a similar version of the Spigot engine as G:U for Wii, I think it's a somewhat relevant comparison. The fact that it supported 12 players and managed to be smooth is quite remarkable regardless.

Again, this is a video game, not a movie. The monsters are going to have certain actions that don't necessarily represent what they did in the films. Rolling is added for the sake of balance, because it allows you to escape what may otherwise be inescapable situations. It's been in Tekeen for decades for a reason.

Having only some monsters roll would be horrible unbalanced. I am highly against it.

I am aware we're talking about a video game and not a movie. I even said that gameplay-wise I liked rolling. Rolling just thematically doesn't make much sense for Godzilla and friends to be doing all the time.

Why would it be unbalanced if only some monsters rolled? Megaguiras, Mothra, and Moguera already didn't roll in StE. Unleashed had no rolling in it at all.

- Lenbo

[Supergeon]

I want to know what everyone thinks single player should be like.
Should it
A) Be an arcade ladder
B) Be a predetermined match order depending on monster picked (Exclusively monster matchups from films) keep in mind this would only apply to a TOHO or DAEI release..
C) G:U style where you have a map and can choose your location

[Supergeon]

All characters from G:U (Is this okay?)
Hedorah
Gorosaurus
Kamacuras FW
Kumonga FW
Battra (Larva and Imago)
Kamoebas
Gezora
Ganimes
Ebirah
Manda
Bagan
Monster X

That is asking a lot!

[hammysammy59]

I like B because it's basically like having an arcade ladder, but a cooler arcade ladder that is tailored to each monster. Hell, with the tailored ladders, the order of matches tells a story for each monster, without even having to use cut scenes and stuff. I'm not opposed to C, but I'd still want the map choices to be unique for each monster and have my map choices affect what other choices I can make, and how the story concludes.

[Mr. Strange]

I also think B - because it can be very interesting to have unusual match-up orders. In G:DAMM, for example, I loved that MKG fought Destoroyah first. People thought of Destoroyah as such a nasty fight - but MKG could absolutely clobber him - so just the fight order there really opened some people's eyes as to how the mechanics of the game worked.

[JVM]

Gotta agree on B, except for the movie match-ups rule. Strange put it nicely, I think, but I also think it adds an extra diversity - it gives you more reason to try out other monsters. If you play the same gang of monsters each time, why not just take the same player monster every time - plus it would eventually get boring.

[Living Corpse]

Maybe we can have a secret bonus boss fight after you beat the game under the right conditions like beat the game on hard mode.

[Goji]

Well G:U was on Wii, and considering this new game will be using a similar version of the Spigot engine as G:U for Wii, I think it's a somewhat relevant comparison. The fact that it supported 12 players and managed to be smooth is quite remarkable regardless.

Nope, nice save attempt there, but you were clearly comparing Godzila: Save the Earth's online play on the original Xbox to Mario Kart Wii's online play, which came out on superior hardware, 4 years later. You were not talking about G:U.

Yes, the online play was great for MKW, but again, the comparison doesn't make any sense.

I even said that gameplay-wise I liked rolling. Rolling just thematically make much sense for Godzilla and friends to be doing all the time.

Well..yeah, but we are talking about a video game, are we not? I don't understand the problem.

Why would it be unbalanced if only some monsters rolled? Megaguiras, Mothra, and Moguera already didn't roll in StE. Unleashed had no rolling in it at all.

I was talking about opponents that are actually grounded, and walk.

MOGUERA and Mothra larva were the ones who were more succceptable to getting stuck in certain situations agsinst a solid player because they couldn't escape a situation once grounded. For example, a Destoroyah player could demolish a grounded Mothra with his Katana Horn because she couldn't roll. Additionally, a good player can avoid MOG's get up attack, and keep pressuring them. Rolling allows monsters to escape certain situations. It needs to stay.

Some of you really need to give it a rest with these "it looks silly" or "they never did that in the movies", type of complaints. To make gameplay more interesting, small liberties need to be taken. I'm sorry, but this should be obvious to everyone..

[Oasis_S]

Some of you really need to give it a rest with these "it looks silly" or "they never did that in the movies", type of complaints. To make gameplay more interesting, small liberties need to be taken. I'm sorry, but this should be obvious to everyone..

I was thinking about this, and wondering if maybe because the visual style tries to present itself as "realistic" that maybe some expect the monsters to act "realistic" as well? Some things may look silly because they're being done in an... ATMOSPHERE that leads one to not expect it. So... if THAT'S the issue, then maybe the visual style should be less ...serious. So it's not taken as seriously.

Though, I would be in the "just get over it" boat like you. Don't want the gameplay compromised. Before you can make a good Godzilla game, you have to make a good game first. If you stripped away the charm the Godzilla license provides for the Pipeworks Godzilla series, would it still be enjoyable...?

[Godzillabrawler]

Not to bring up the size issue again, but I prefer the Heisei / Final Wars standard. For one, the awe-inspiring factor is appealing to those who don't watch the movies, because if they see that Godzilla is able to shouldknock over a skyscraper that could dwarf Kong... yeah. But for technical reasons, it is much easier. The models for environments don't have to be as big compared to the monsters, so you save space. New York is already massive in the Pipworks games... imagine how daunting it'd be to do that for a 50m monster vs an 100m monster.

Besides, like I said, the visual appeal is that the monsters are HUGE. I prefer it when Godzilla can knock over a small building by walking straight through it, whereas a Showa monster would have to work at it more.