New kaiju game from Matt Frank + Simon Strange [Archive]

[PopInPicsPresents]

I think Stange mentioned a "Make your own film" mode last night, which made me think one of the original monsters should be your standard-shaped monster, only with a camera for a head with film reels as its spines, lol. Position the monster to position your camera, etc. Click of a button and you go to an FPS view.

I've been pushing for theater mode since day 1. It all depends on how much we earn in donations though. Who wouldn't like to make their own monster/Godzilla films? Imagine this: No more "trailers" with Linkin Park slapped over em on YouTube!

I'd rather have those then have little kids making crappy Godzilla videos

[Goji]

I don't remember if Unleashed had this, but one of the few things I liked about StE was the ability to juggle opponents.

Agreed, I absolutely loved that about STE. G:U sort of had it..but juggles worked very differently. The biggest issue was that several of the monsters didn't have launchers, while others didn't. While STE was like this, it seemed that a lot of the monsters from the older games suddenly didn't have their launchers actually launch their opponents anymore.

Though I think I'm in the minority when I say StE was the worst of the three games...? Looks like people have grown to love it. To me it felt like most matches consisted of blocking, and trying to hit opponents with get-up attacks. :V

..I don't think it was that way at all. Yes, wake-up attacks were now invincible, but that had to be done for the sake of balance, otherwise you could be hit by your opponent repeatedly while grounded, without them suffering any consequences. This was a pretty big problem in G:DAMM.

Most of these wake-up moves could be jumped over and avoided, especially the ones that hit low (All three Godzilla's). Some monsters had one's that hit high (Destoroyah, King Ghidorah), or mid (Orga, King Ghidorah), and the way to avoid them was to simply jump backwards.

GU: I swung the Wii remote as I pressed A+B. Over and over. With every monster. And I won. On Hard. Kind of strange when I can play as Varan and Biollante the same way and almost always win. I REALLY hope the next game doesn't play anything like this...

That's because the CPU on "Hard" in G:U is a frakkin' joke in comparison to STE. They hardly even block half the time.

Though believe me, this strategy would not work on a human opponent. You'd be out in round one if you tried this at one of the G-Fest tournaments.

Here's a controls question - did anyone ever use the button-only combos? Things like A,B,X? Or did everyone just dis (dir)+Button all the time, and win the game with single-hits?

Always used both. Here's an example of doing a combo with Jet which can only be done by following my opponent across the map, to continue the combo. (This is a match between a friend of mine from a couple of years ago). The combo happens between 0:26-0:31. I catch it again 8:09-8:13.

(Xbox control scheme) Drunken Monkey (B)+Press R trigger to "hop" far enough across the screen, Viper Jab (standing A), Viper Jab, Mongoose Strike (Forward+X).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh7eS1Qn ... ature=plcp (Sorry about the music, but it had to be added to drown out the sounds of us laughing hysterically at times; and no, that's not me talking at the end).

The timing is tricky for it, and it doesn't always work on heavier opponents who drop quickly (Destoroyah), nor does Jet's Drunken Monkey launch certain standing opponents (Orga, King Ghidorah). It may be possible to add more hits after the Mongoose Strike, since the opponent is juggled high again, but all I've been able to successfully land is an OTG (on the ground) Hyena Kick (away+X) . It doesn't do much damage, but it's an example of using unorthodox combos in the STE engine.

I would really like to see the juggle system from STE implemented in this new game. I'm probably starting to sound like a broken record, but STE had the best combo/juggle system out of all the three Pipeworks games, and that is just one of my several reasons I prefer it to the other two games.

[Chris55]

I will call him Camorah.

And we have our first monster

[hammysammy59]

The fanny pack makes it. Rage attack: plays embarrassing home movies of your monster: Godzilla getting hit in the crotch by Minya swinging a whiffle bat, Ghidorah singing in the shower, and of course, a pimply, awkward teen Gigan getting way too excited over a super-dorky Christmas present.

[godzilla898]

The fanny pack makes it. Rage attack: plays embarrassing home movies of your monster: Godzilla getting hit in the crotch by Minya swinging a whiffle bat, Ghidorah singing in the shower, and of course, a pimply, awkward teen Gigan getting way too excited over a super-dorky Christmas present.

I will not be able to die until I see these.

Also while we're on throwing, one of my favorite stupid things about PS2 G:U was how monsters moved when you threw them. Which, is to say, completely vertically. With Kiryu's rocket-thruster elbow (O throw) and a few moves to follow up, you could launch a monster to the top of the arena.
I don't support the system every existing again, but it was fun in a silly, stupid way nonetheless.

[Blackout286]

Mr. Strange I was wondering, are there any possibilities of involving Kiryu's drilling hand? Or would the animation of having kiryu's hand forming and spinning into a drill be a bit much? The drill itself could be a grab attack replacement for the plasma blade grab?

[matrix]

Oh snap! I forgot, ive been a fan for years and dreamed of this, but I never told you! Ive kinda been craving a monster creator feature (though it might be a ton of money) just a simple creator would be so cool, here is a example of a creator, choose parts from monsters you have unlocked, choose stat points (with a limit to the amount of stat points you have) change color, and BLAM, a awesome creator, but that is just my dream, which almost never come to reality.

[Mr. Strange]

Mr. Strange I was wondering, are there any possibilities of involving Kiryu's drilling hand? Or would the animation of having kiryu's hand forming and spinning into a drill be a bit much? The drill itself could be a grab attack replacement for the plasma blade grab?

Seems like more work than it is worth. "Morphing" the hand would be really hard - but we could try to fake it, if folks were insistent. Certainly we could just spin the hand and put some fx and audio over it.

[PopInPicsPresents]

Mr. Strange I was wondering, are there any possibilities of involving Kiryu's drilling hand? Or would the animation of having kiryu's hand forming and spinning into a drill be a bit much? The drill itself could be a grab attack replacement for the plasma blade grab?

Seems like more work than it is worth. "Morphing" the hand would be really hard - but we could try to fake it, if folks were insistent. Certainly we could just spin the hand and put some fx and audio over it.

Why not just have one of the hands in permanent drill mode? It would make for a really cool melee weapon.

[jdude1996]

^ I dont really like the sound of that

[SpanishBulldog63]

Mr. Strange I was wondering, are there any possibilities of involving Kiryu's drilling hand? Or would the animation of having kiryu's hand forming and spinning into a drill be a bit much? The drill itself could be a grab attack replacement for the plasma blade grab?

Seems like more work than it is worth. "Morphing" the hand would be really hard - but we could try to fake it, if folks were insistent. Certainly we could just spin the hand and put some fx and audio over it.

Why not just have one of the hands in permanent drill mode? It would make for a really cool melee weapon.

Hmm, so could a possibility be like A+away=drill stab and A+towards=blade slash?

[Lenbo]

Here's a controls question - did anyone ever use the button-only combos? Things like A,B,X? Or did everyone just dis (dir)+Button all the time, and win the game with single-hits?

Very rarely. The reason players used the (dir)+Button moves all the time was because they came out quickly and were thus harder to predict/block, dealt more damage more quickly, and often resulted in knockdown, which basically made them more useful than the button-only combos ever were.

All of these reasons were exacerbated in G:U because you could only take out a health cell with a (dir)+Button move, and was thus the only way to defeat your opponent. This was despite single button mashing having more DPS.

---

Now for my thoughts/input/suggestions on other subjects:

Replay Feature from G:DAMM
- The replay from G:DAMM of the knock-out hit with various camera angles was really cool. Bring it back if possible.

“Comeback” mechanic
- A rage meter similar to other games (like Street Fighter 4 or X-Factor in Marvel vs. Capcom 3) which gives access to the use of super moves is a fun mechanic. When you get “defeated” there’s some way for you to save yourself, stay in the fight and possibly pull out a win creates tension and makes matches more exciting.
- The Rage moves from StE were fun and made each monster feel all the more unique and powerful. This was missed by many players in G:U.
- When you get “defeated” there’s some way for you to save yourself, stay in the fight and possibly pull out a win

Health System
Health cells are good, allow you to clearly tell who has more overall health. It was much clearer in G:U that monsters started out with different amounts of health compared to StE.

Information Clarity
In previous games, there was a definite problem of making everything clear to the player(s). This is why there is such widespread ignorance on how the systems and mechanics of previous Pipeworks Godzilla games functioned.
- Monster statistics/abilities need to be accessible/visible from some kind of monster profile screen (strengths/weaknesses, what damage types dealt/vulnerable to)
This could be accessible from the monster selection screen in single player games as it was in StE, but also from a separate monster profile screen accessible from the main menu. This could include a biography for each monster, a brief overview of their strengths/weaknesses to go along with an actual statistical breakdown (health, damage types dealt, resistances/weaknesses, speed etc.)
- Move list is a must. G:U didn't include this and it's a travesty as it essentially hid crucial information on how to play the game from the player. Many players didn't actually know how to play each monster because of this. How many people know Mothra Larva had an air grapple? I sure didn't until it happened by accident.
- Numerical representation of damage in StE was good (option to turn on/off would be welcome as I'm sure not everyone wants it visible).
- Clear visible feedback as to what moves are effective/ineffective against what monsters (through sound effects/graphical effects). I feel this was never effectively conveyed in any of the Pipeworks Godzilla games. Although G:DAMM probably did it best with the graphical effects when using physical attacks. It was never made clear enough that certain damage types healed other monsters in StE. I feel that moves dealing 0 damage is better than moves actually healing opponents.

Practice Mode
- Practice mode is a must, essential for new players to get the hang of things and for players to test out monsters. See any Capcom fighting game for example on how to do this.
- Tutorial would be appreciated as well, see Mortal Kombat 9 on how to do this well.

Online Play
GGPO networking system for online play seems to be the best solution for smooth online play. All I've ever heard from the fighting game community is this is preferable over other solutions as it makes online fighting games feel lag-free. Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix and the recent XBLA fighting game Skullgirls use it, and the feedback has been very positive.

- If this is going to be competitive, which if it's anything like StE it will be, then stat tracking (wins/losses) are a must. Also a player stats screen showing information like most used monster and wins/losses for each monster played would be appreciated. See Super Smash Bros. Brawl for a good example of this.

Free to Play
If this game turns out to be Free to Play, then monsters could be unlocked through spending points earned in any mode by simply playing the game or unlocked with real $$$. (See League of Legends or Uber Entertainment's Super Monday Night Combat for reference on how to do this well.)

Character Unlocking
If it's not Free to Play, make every playable monster unlocked from the get-go. Super Street Fighter 4 & Ultimate MvC3 had every character unlocked right from the get-go, allowing players to get right into the gameplay with anyone they want. This is preferable. I find the unlocking process of previous Pipeworks Godzilla games tedious.

Or if unlocking monsters is a must - make them easy to unlock. For example, playing through the Story Mode with each monster unlocks a new monster. Specifically, playing through the story with Godzilla would unlock Kiryu. Then playing through the Story Mode with Kiryu would unlock King Ghidorah. This way players are forced to experience playing every monster and getting a feel for how they work.

- Lenbo

[Megaton17]

So from what I can guess we won't be seeing kaiju redesigns?

Off topic, I've seen that Toho is very strict in the use of movie versions of monsters, but I've also wondered why the Uchusen art has been able to redesign monsters.

Back on topic, it would be cool to see battle damage in this game ala the DBZ games

[Godzillabrawler]

@Lenbo: My jaw hit the floor. I couldn't have said it any better myself.

[Oasis_S]

Lots of good ideas from Lenbo.

I feel like the "comeback mechanic" may be a bit tricky, though I know lots of games have it. I kind of like the idea of how it's done in Unleashed. It's very similar to how the Smash Ball works in Brawl. Unlike Brawl though, the crystals used to obtain Critical Mass were ever-present. Do away with that, and just relegate Rage to an occasionally appearing crystal (or any other substitute, maybe a special UFO). The crystal should appear nearest the monster with the lowest health.

What I like about having it in a crystal is that getting Rage is not simply an AUTOMATIC thing, or a thing that the fastest monster gets. While you do have the advantage of getting to it first, you still have to break it apart. You still have to EARN IT. And DESTROYING STUFF is very at home in a Godzilla game, so I like that aspect of it too.

If you want to make it completely like Smash and put it into a glowing UFO or something that moves while you try to hit it, that might be cool too. It fits that party aspect of the Pipeworks Godzilla series. Maybe BOTH? Each would give you a different move... I dunno. Speaking of items and power-ups, you might want to think about polishing up the idea from StE of using certain buildings/objects as weapons. Making every interactable object a throwing item is kind of boring. Doesn't necessarily have to be, though. Maybe certain objects would explode and send debris flying in all directions on impact. Explosive buildings... VARIETY IS ALWAYS WELCOME. Of course, focus on the core gameplay first before doing any crazy stuff. If that's not fun, then nothing else will be.

EVEN THOUGH THIS POST IS ALREADY MUCH LONGER THAN I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE: I had a really simple idea. It's always fun to recreate battles from the films, so since pretty much EVERY fan is going to do that, why not just make that it's own mode? Legacy Mode I guess you'd call it. While that might be fine by itself, I'd like it so that you didn't have to play with/as Godzilla pretty much every battle. Y'know, variety. So how about instead, you have a battle to represent each film (possibly more than one per film in some cases)? You'd be presented with a list of all the Godzilla films, and you'd have the option of selecting just one or playing through all of them. If you play through them all, it would keep track of your score. You could also select whichever monster you wanted, pretty much just inserting it into the battle in Godzilla's place. For example, if you picked Gabara (I would!), then when you got to the Godzilla vs. Gigan stage, the battle would be Gabara & Anguirus vs. Gigan & King Ghidorah.

I tried making a list, and even with a bit of cutting, that's about 30 separate battles. It would be a REALLY long playthrough (maybe you get something special for beating it, lol), but at least it would be neat as a fan to go through recognizable battles in chronological order. And it's a history lesson for the non-fans out there, lol. The loading screen before each battle could even be a picture of the respective movie poster. :3

It's too bad King Kong vs Godzilla would have to be skipped.

[Living Corpse]

Character Unlocking
If it's not Free to Play, make every playable monster unlocked from the get-go. Super Street Fighter 4 & Ultimate MvC3 had every character unlocked right from the get-go, allowing players to get right into the gameplay with anyone they want. This is preferable. I find the unlocking process of previous Pipeworks Godzilla games tedious.

NO!

Half the fun of games is unlocking shit, earning it. If everyone is unlock non fans will play it once and then drop it. Unllockibles give people more reason to play it more then once.

Or if unlocking monsters is a must - make them easy to unlock. For example, playing through the Story Mode with each monster unlocks a new monster. Specifically, playing through the story with Godzilla would unlock Kiryu. Then playing through the Story Mode with Kiryu would unlock King Ghidorah. This way players are forced to experience playing every monster and getting a feel for how they work.

YES! Unlockibles don't have to be a pain to unlock they can be fun. Also maybe have a cheat code for people who wanna do a tournament so they don't have to waste time unlocking them for tournaments. People like me can get them the old way and tournament organizers and lazy gamers can just cheat. Everyone wins.

[Oasis_S]

Yeah, Godzilla is more of a party game, so maybe following Street Fighter like that isn't the best.

Didn't DAMM have the latter unlocking method you suggested, Lenbo? That is a pretty good method. I just hope I don't suck terribly with one particular monster which leaves me unable to unlock one or two other monsters, lol.

[Mr. Strange]

Replay Feature from G:DAMM
- The replay from G:DAMM of the knock-out hit with various camera angles was really cool. Bring it back if possible.

Sorry to start on a sour note, but the Spigot engine added too much complexity to bring this back the way it was in G:DAMM. I have some ideas about replacements, but this is probably not a top priority due to the costs involved.

“Comeback” mechanic
- When you get “defeated” there’s some way for you to save yourself, stay in the fight and possibly pull out a win

This is the direction we've been discussing - I think it's the best thematic fit for a Kaiju game - sort of like "battle overtime" - you might just lose when your health goes to zero, but you might come back in a stronger attack/weaker defense form to keep trying. Could lead to some epic battles.

Health System
Health cells are good, allow you to clearly tell who has more overall health. It was much clearer in G:U that monsters started out with different amounts of health compared to StE.

Information Clarity
In previous games, there was a definite problem of making everything clear to the player(s). This is why there is such widespread ignorance on how the systems and mechanics of previous Pipeworks Godzilla games functioned.

Putting monster stats on the vs screen is tricky - because you have 1/4 or less of the screen to work with. Since we'll be starting on PC, a hover-over solution would probably work really well.

I really like numbers - they are nice and clear. I'm considering replacing the entire health bar with a defense # (sort of like Smash Bros) to really drive that sort of thing home. A number also helps fit 4 player HUDs on the screen - which is always a problem.

Practice Mode
- Practice mode is a must, essential for new players to get the hang of things and for players to test out monsters. See any Capcom fighting game for example on how to do this.
- Tutorial would be appreciated as well, see Mortal Kombat 9 on how to do this well.

A well-implemented practice mode is quite a lot of work. My preference is to allow the AI to be turned down to "very easy" - which gives you most of the same practice opportunities, without all the engineering overhead.

Online Play
GGPO networking system for online play seems to be the best solution for smooth online play. All I've ever heard from the fighting game community is this is preferable over other solutions as it makes online fighting games feel lag-free. Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix and the recent XBLA fighting game Skullgirls use it, and the feedback has been very positive.

The idea behind GGPO, as described in that article, is exactly how Spigot already deals with networking. I felt really clever when I designed that system in 2004. I always thought StE had some of the best online combat ever.

- If this is going to be competitive, which if it's anything like StE it will be, then stat tracking (wins/losses) are a must. Also a player stats screen showing information like most used monster and wins/losses for each monster played would be appreciated. See Super Smash Bros. Brawl for a good example of this.

This is a ton of work, but I'm inclined to prioritize it. Since the design of the game (and how we spend our time/money) is going to be handled through online discussion, you should make sure everyone else here agrees with us.

Free to Play
If this game turns out to be Free to Play, then monsters could be unlocked through spending points earned in any mode by simply playing the game or unlocked with real $$$. (See League of Legends or Uber Entertainment's Super Monday Night Combat for reference on how to do this well.)

The game might cost $0, but it would not be Free to Play. "Free to Play" means there is a way to spend money inside the game - that absolutely won't be the case with this game.

Character Unlocking
If it's not Free to Play, make every playable monster unlocked from the get-go. Super Street Fighter 4 & Ultimate MvC3 had every character unlocked right from the get-go, allowing players to get right into the gameplay with anyone they want. This is preferable. I find the unlocking process of previous Pipeworks Godzilla games tedious.

Or if unlocking monsters is a must - make them easy to unlock. For example, playing through the Story Mode with each monster unlocks a new monster. Specifically, playing through the story with Godzilla would unlock Kiryu. Then playing through the Story Mode with Kiryu would unlock King Ghidorah. This way players are forced to experience playing every monster and getting a feel for how they work.

We could be more creative here - why not allow unlocking for single-player, but let everything be available for multiplayer from the get-go? I also think non-critical unlocks, like visual flair on your monster, is a good thing to let players unlock for multiplayer modes - like portraits or titles or the like.

[Oasis_S]

I also think non-critical unlocks, like visual flair on your monster, is a good thing to let players unlock for multiplayer modes - like portraits or titles or the like.

Or Godzilla with a top hat.

[Godz]

To those wanting a training mode....just set up a 2P match with no one manning the 2P controller. Simple fix, no? And it won't cost any extra dev dollars. I get that it wont have the fleshed out AI actions (like always jump, duck, etc, like Capcom games) but I don't think its essential to the game. IMO these style brawlers don't have near the complexity of a Capcom fighter.