New kaiju game from Matt Frank + Simon Strange [Archive]

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Re: Your Movesets For Monsters In The New Kaiju Game

Postby jdude1996 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:01 pm

can anyone think up a moveset for Kamicuras?
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby Mr. Strange » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:03 pm

Infinity wrote:You are thinking on the right lines Mr.Strange but it suprises me that Toho wanted all those goofy moves to be implemented in the game.

It certainly wasn't like that in Godzilla: Kaiju Daikessen or Godzilla Battle Legends. They had the basic jumping and dashing but everything else for the most part was pretty accurate to the character they represented. Very few things seemed slapstick and even those made the kaiju still look cool (I won't complain about Super Mechagodzilla's Long kicks as they made him look really badass in contrast to MG's kicks in G:STE or G:DAMM where it was a combination of bad posture and wacky move types that just didn't click with me.


Well, movies don't have to worry about realism in some of the ways a video game does. Film Ghidorah can't kick his legs - they simply don't bend that way. So nobody bothered to make his legs long enough to kick effectively. Since we are dealing with ridgid skeletons and meshes, we can't arbitrarily change the proportion of his body to make things work - so when he kicks, we have to twist and contort his body to get his feet out away from his body to the point where they can actually connect.

2D games can simply draw bigger limbs during the attack frames - to get around this issue easily.

Before G:U monster couldn't stack on top of one another, so moves like Ghidorah's big stomp attack were really hard to get working. There was a lot of behind-the-scenes cheating on that attack, as I recall!

Anyway, none of you should be worried about this sort of technical detail. Let's try running a list of attacks, and we'll let people weigh in on which ones they like or don't like. That would be useful data to have.
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby PopInPicsPresents » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:06 pm

I have a question, would it be possible for the bigger kaiju like Godzilla to be able to actually walk through buildings like in the films? Or when a monster like Ghidorah lands from flying to have him just crush the buildings under his feet if there are any?
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby godzilla898 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:16 pm

PopInPicsPresents wrote:I have a question, would it be possible for the bigger kaiju like Godzilla to be able to actually walk through buildings like in the films? Or when a monster like Ghidorah lands from flying to have him just crush the buildings under his feet if there are any?

I second this. One of the most annoying things in StE was the ankle-high buildings-you couldn't jump over them or quickly destroy them.
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby Oasis_S » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:25 pm

Mr. Strange wrote:Since we're getting into the subject of "how accurate should monsters be to their film incarnations" I thought I'd share some insights.

Original Godzilla & co. were about 50 meters tall. They grew over the years, eventually being about 100m tall.

When we started making G:DAMM, Toho had a very strict rule - all monsters needed to be relatively the same size. So we just kept Godzilla at 100m, and scaled the other monsters (with Toho's supervision) to be proportionately correct. So if King Ghidorah was originally 70m to Godzilla's 60m, we say "ok, so KG is 17% taller than Godzilla - so make him 117m."

Toho has not, in general, been willing to have things exist "as they were" - they have specifically wanted things updated to fit with the lastest monster incarnations.

The "stiffness" of monsters in the older films is a great example of this. Toho thinks of that stiffness as a technology constraint, not a true representation of the monsters. We tried doing some frame-for-frame copies of various monster moves, and Toho did not like it. Then we created Godzilla 2000's uppercut move - and they loved it. Toho told us that THAT was what they wanted all the monsters to be doing - jumping, swinging, and slashing with more freedom that they ever could in the movies.

I'm a bit surprised that several people here have complained about the speed of combat in the last few games - I've only heard people complain about how sluggish things were. I honestly prefer things to be slower and more tactical. We'll definitely discuss that at length early in the development process!


That's all really interesting. Though I guess now my spreadsheet of monster heights scaled to be proportionate to Godzilla is useless now. I'm glad Toho feels that way about their monsters' movements. Definitely makes for a better gaming experience.

I wish I could comment more on the speed of these games, but I only have StE to play. I wish I could compare it to DAMM, because I remember DAMM feeling really great in general. Hopefully it's not just the nostalgia. I just seem to have it in my head that StE was a step down. Wasn't it slowed down from DAMM? Can't play Unleashed again either, but I remember enjoying it more than StE. Thought the way the health worked was pretty clever.


Also, about attacks, no one monster had two attacks that acted in the same way, did they? Whether they were slow or fast; hit high or low; didn't phase the opponent, stunned them, or knocked them down completely; or had the same "elemental" type to them, right? I mean, that's a lot of variety there. Each move is designed to be useful in at least SOME situations?
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby ゴジラ » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:28 pm

Infinity wrote:You are thinking on the right lines Mr.Strange but it suprises me that Toho wanted all those goofy moves to be implemented in the game.


Its not really all that goofy,

Toho does not want the restrictions of their films to be in the game, and they love the freedom within the games. When you have Godzilla vs. Megalon, Hedorah, Revenge, and MechaGodzilla, (along with Megaguirus and Final Wars) then I'm positive that no one should really be surprised by the "goofy moves" in the games. Beyond that you have to remember, this is a game, a game is suppose to be entertaining and fun. Toho most likely enjoyed the games and had a great time, allowing the "goofy moves" to be packaged in the games.

Now a few new moves can be given to replace the "goofy moves" that some people do not like, so long as they are reasonable. Before going too far in giving thought with this idea...

Are their any listing of moves that people do not like, but would like to be changed or replaced? Make any responses clear like:

Example:
Monster: Godzilla 90's
Disliked Move: Foot Volley (Grapple in G:U)
Reason: It seems really out of place and kinda weird.
Replacement Move and Why: Nuclear Pulse, it could be the new grapple move like in the Godzilla Super Nintendo Game. Plus its a decent way to implement it.


I've read some pages back that Monsters grabbing other monsters to execute attacks are difficult things to program, so anyone with a grapple move idea keep that in mind.
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby Mr. Strange » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:31 pm

PopInPicsPresents wrote:I have a question, would it be possible for the bigger kaiju like Godzilla to be able to actually walk through buildings like in the films? Or when a monster like Ghidorah lands from flying to have him just crush the buildings under his feet if there are any?


Sure. The monsters just walked through buildings in all three G games.

Of course, I suspect your question really is "can they just walk through the buildings which, before, were so big that they wouldn't just walk through them?"

Let me ask you - if the buildings offer no resistance, then what is the purpose of having buildings at all? Why not just leave open spaces? It seems like a lot of time and trouble to make buildings which offer no resistance.

Oasis_S wrote:Also, about attacks, no one monster had two attacks that acted in the same way, did they? Whether they were slow or fast; hit high or low; didn't phase the opponent, stunned them, or knocked them down completely; or had the same "elemental" type to them, right? I mean, that's a lot of variety there. Each move is designed to be useful in at least SOME situations?


Yes, every attack had unique properties - designed to be useful in some situations and pretty weak in others.

Now a few new moves can be given to replace the "goofy moves" that some people do not like, so long as they are reasonable. Before going too far in giving thought with this idea...

Are their any listing of moves that people do not like, but would like to be changed or replaced? Make any responses clear like:


This is half useful. First, attacks need to be listed by how they were triggered (Ghidorah's "Down + A in StE"). Second, it is not useful at this time for people to talk about what they would like to replace those moves. Let's just list the attacks people liked (that is - moves they felt were true to the spirit of the character) and which attacks they did not like.
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby Blackout286 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:37 pm

If I remember correctly, some buildings in the films never just collapsed away whenever Godzilla encountered them, sometimes he had to tear away at them before finally going through.

A.K.A Resistance? O.o
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby PopInPicsPresents » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:38 pm

Mr. Strange wrote:
PopInPicsPresents wrote:I have a question, would it be possible for the bigger kaiju like Godzilla to be able to actually walk through buildings like in the films? Or when a monster like Ghidorah lands from flying to have him just crush the buildings under his feet if there are any?


Sure. The monsters just walked through buildings in all three G games.

Of course, I suspect your question really is "can they just walk through the buildings which, before, were so big that they wouldn't just walk through them?"

Let me ask you - if the buildings offer no resistance, then what is the purpose of having buildings at all? Why not just leave open spaces? It seems like a lot of time and trouble to make buildings which offer no resistance.


Buildings really shouldn't be a resistance to a giant monster, maybe the smaller ones like Baragon and Anguirus but the larger ones should be able to walk through them like in the films. Beams should go through buildings, not get stopped by them. Buildings should just be there to be destroyed.
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby godzilla898 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:40 pm

Mr. Strange wrote:
PopInPicsPresents wrote:I have a question, would it be possible for the bigger kaiju like Godzilla to be able to actually walk through buildings like in the films? Or when a monster like Ghidorah lands from flying to have him just crush the buildings under his feet if there are any?


Of course, I suspect your question really is "can they just walk through the buildings which, before, were so big that they wouldn't just walk through them?"

While I can't speak for PiPP, what if they could walk through the buildings, but would be significantly slowed or unable to use certain attacks?
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby Berzerkgodzilla » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:43 pm

I always wanted to be able to do that. What about making it so they can go through buidings when doing the rush thing they could do in GU? Like they crash through the building if they charge into instead of just stopping?
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Re: Your Movesets For Monsters In The New Kaiju Game

Postby Oasis_S » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:44 pm

While not a moveset, I think Kamacuras should feel like... a scheming sort of character. He wants to hurt you, but he knows he has to wait for the right time to strike. So he might seem kind of cautious and careful too. When he CAN attack you, it'll probably hurt pretty bad.

I see him as a character that tries to lure his opponent into attacking so Kamacuras can find an opening to exploit. He might have some moves that, at the beginning or end of their animation, will cause Kamacuras to move away from his opponent. Such as backing up to allow the opponent to miss, only for Kamacuras to follow it up (in the same animation) with a strong attack. His weaker attacks would probably be pretty fast and string into one another easily.

To keep from exploiting his quick and COMBO-Y moves, Kamacuras himself would probably have to be pretty fragile. Biding his time would be to his benefit. Preying on the vulnerable - very Kamacuras-like, yeah?



Oh yeah, and Gabara's grab animation should be kind of over-the-top. That is, if he misses, he should hop on one foot a short distance, leaving him vulnerable.
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Re: Your Movesets For Monsters In The New Kaiju Game

Postby Mr. Strange » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:50 pm

jdude1996 wrote:can anyone think up a moveset for Kamicuras?


A attacks - pincer claw strikes.
B attacks - back leg strikes.
C attacks - flying attacks (wings come out)

A + Up : Claw stab high
A + Down : Claw uppercut
A + Away : Preying Mantis pose (pull away from opponent) then lash forward to strike with both pincers.
A + Toward : Cross-pincer strike (lunge forward and cross both pincers to strike

B + Up : Hop and splay legs outward - to hit in any direction. (short range)
B + Down : Stap front pincer into the ground by his side, then pivot around it for a wide-angle sweep.
B + Away : Mule kick, leaves him facing backward
B + Toward : Slide forward a small distance on his side, kicking legs out during the slide. Hits low, but not a sweep.

C + Up: Fly up in a stair-step, hitting with pincers and front legs.
C + Down: Flatten to the ground, then spring very high, giving players control over the descent.
C + Away: Bicycle kick while jump-flying away from the opponent.
C + Toward: Wing-assisted charge flailing wing and limbs on all sides. Leaves him stunned for a moment (long recovery)

Ranged attack : ventriloquist's chirp. Create a quick echoing chirp which bounces around the arena, distracting and confusing the opponent. All monsters immediately end their charge (firing their weapons at whatever charge level they have) immediately.

Special attack : Active camouflage. He becomes partially transparent, and opponent's attacks do not auto-target for a few seconds. Uses some energy.
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Re: Your Movesets For Monsters In The New Kaiju Game

Postby jdude1996 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:00 pm

^ I like this moveset :)
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby Goji » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:15 pm

PopInPicsPresents wrote:
Kiryu2012 wrote:Hey I just thought of something for Kamacuras.

What if whenever the player uses invisibility, they go into first-person like the TF2 Spy, and against other players the screen splits, so the player that's invisible knows where they're going, while the other player doesn't know where they are.


Now that's an awesome idea!


No...it's not. :? Having a fighting game go FPS out of nowhere would be a terrible design choice..and like LGM said, it would be extremely jarring, and mess up the flow of multiplayer (local or online).

I think the complaints about "silly" moves are really overblown. How serious do we expect a game that's based on giant monsters battling to the death, to be? Personally, I love the freedom that was allowed with the old games, and I hope to see more of that in the design/development of the monsters for this new title. I also hope to see some moves from the Pipeworks return. For instance, I simply can't imagine Jet Jaguar without the druken monkey move. Not only is it his launcher, it fits him perfectly.
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby godzilla898 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:34 pm

Goji wrote:I think the complaints about "silly" moves are really overblown. How serious do we expect a game that's based on giant monsters battling to the death, to be? Personally, I love the freedom that was allowed with the old games, and I hope to see more of that in the design/development of the monsters for this new title. I also hope to see some moves from the Pipeworks return. For instance, I simply can't imagine Jet Jaguar without the druken monkey move. Not only is it his launcher, it fits him perfectly.

I wasn't a huge fan of the freedom the games allowed. G 90's is a good example-not once in the films does he jump or display the speed or agility that would allow him to do moves such as his run-and-kick throw or double kick.
Obviously it's going to be a bit different for each monster, but I think some of them shouldn't be quite as agile as they were in previous games.
Spacegodzilla is a good example of the increased flexibility working out well-it gives him some more freedom than his lumbering on-screen appearance, but it doesn't stray to far away from it or give him any crazy new abilities.
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby Oasis_S » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:48 pm

I guess it's okay to think some moves are silly. If they don't mesh with how people see that monster's character, then it can't be helped. Should be changed. We should probably stop arguing about it and list those moves before Strange gets impatient, lol.

But I like how animated the monsters are. Brings out their personalities. In some cases maybe even GIVES them their personality where one wasn't apparent before.
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby Goji » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:12 pm

Wow. I feel like some of you didn't even read Mr. Strange's recent response.

Toho liked the changes, and welcomed them. None of the stuff was extreme, and like I said earlier, these complaints have been blown out of proportion. Even in "serious" films like FRANKENSTEIN VS. BARAGON, Baragon is seen jumping around like a maniac, trying to pounce Franky...Yet some people have the balls to complain about how "silly" Baragon was in the Pipeworks games. Also, most of Toho's monsters started becoming increasingly anthropomorphic as early as 1962...and with that said, these complaints are barely justified. Toho's various critters were already goofy by the time KING KONG VS. GODZILLA was made. MOTHRA VS. GODZILLA is a rare case, where none of the monster stuff was played for laughs.

Seriously, if it's going to ruffle your feathers so much, tell ya what guys, get yourself about 500,000 dollars (if that would even cover it), get approval from Toho, and make you're own damn Godzilla fighting game.
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby matrix » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:15 pm

Do you think you will be able to see the stats in vs. mode?
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby Mr. Strange » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:35 pm

Goji wrote:Wow. I feel like some of you didn't even read Mr. Strange's recent response.


Heh. I feel that way all the time.
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Re: (Possible) new kaiju game from Matt Frank and Simon Stra

Postby matrix » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:36 pm

Mr. Strange wrote:
Goji wrote:Wow. I feel like some of you didn't even read Mr. Strange's recent response.

Heh. I feel that way all the time. But I take solace in the belief that most folks here are 14.

Hey, im 13. :lol:
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