Your Religous Views

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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby kaiju_wars » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:59 am

Crocodile wrote:
I believe the "big bang" was when God made the universe, and everything went boom. Now do I think it took millions of years? No, I don't.


No one does, it's believed the formation of the current universe took BILLIONS of years. Though since time is an irrelevant abstract, the 365 Day Year is an irrelevant unit of measurement on the cosmic stage.



Million, billion, I still don't believe it took that long, I still believe that "the big bang" was when God made the universe, and I still believe it took only 7 days. (6 days, plus a day of rest)
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby Living Corpse » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:08 am

The Bibel is metaphorical, it's not meant to be take literally.
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby NSZ » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:23 am

Living Corpse wrote:The Bible is metaphorical, it's not meant to be take literally.


I don't understand how anyone can take it literally when that it's been edited as much as Wikipedia.
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby Jomei » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:38 pm

kaiju_wars wrote:I believe the "big bang" was when God made the universe, and everything went boom. Now do I think it took millions of years? No, I don't.

I respect other people's beliefs and opinions, as long as they respect mine.


Million, billion, I still don't believe it took that long, I still believe that "the big bang" was when God made the universe, and I still believe it took only 7 days. (6 days, plus a day of rest)


See, I don't respect that belief at all. I won't personally insult you or harass you for it, but that's as much "respect" as anyone deserves merely for holding an opinion.

You completely disregard all of the scientific evidence on cosmology and decide that a collection of ancient writings is more reliable. That's... not worthy of any kind of respect at all--just like people who believe the earth is flat do not deserve respect. If your beliefs are immune to evidence, that shows something profoundly irrational in your way of thinking about these things, and that's not a good thing. Maybe you're a totally rational person otherwise, but you're keeping your rationality away from your religious beliefs.
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby Legionmaster » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:45 pm

Jomei wrote:just like people who believe the earth is flat do not deserve respect.

Actually, the real hardcores have spent a whole lot of time on their theories. If you look into what they've done to support their claim, they've put forth a lot of really good effort and somewhat sciencey work. Unlike Creationists, Flat-Earth theorists have put as much time and work into proving their theory as round-Earth theorists have. It's still mostly hilarious, but at least they give it the ole' college try.
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby kaiju_wars » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:10 pm

Jomei wrote:
kaiju_wars wrote:I believe the "big bang" was when God made the universe, and everything went boom. Now do I think it took millions of years? No, I don't.

I respect other people's beliefs and opinions, as long as they respect mine.


Million, billion, I still don't believe it took that long, I still believe that "the big bang" was when God made the universe, and I still believe it took only 7 days. (6 days, plus a day of rest)


See, I don't respect that belief at all. I won't personally insult you or harass you for it, but that's as much "respect" as anyone deserves merely for holding an opinion.



Then I see no need for me to respect your beliefs. I will gladly listen to what you have to say, but I believe it on how the King James bible is written.
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Shadow wrote:It was so hot out today, I couldn't go up and see the girl I love.

Too bad, I was driving around town with her anyways. She said the change in your pocket wasn't enough for her.
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby Jomei » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:26 pm

Legionmaster wrote:
Jomei wrote:just like people who believe the earth is flat do not deserve respect.

Actually, the real hardcores have spent a whole lot of time on their theories. If you look into what they've done to support their claim, they've put forth a lot of really good effort and somewhat sciencey work. Unlike Creationists, Flat-Earth theorists have put as much time and work into proving their theory as round-Earth theorists have. It's still mostly hilarious, but at least they give it the ole' college try.


That's just the same as the intelligent designers. It's pseudo-science; on the surface it's superficially scientific, but it doesn't stand under actual scientific scrutiny.

kaiju_wars, you don't have to respect science. It stands on its own strength. You benefit from it every day even if you reject the parts that conflict with your private religious feelings.
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby SuperSaiyan4Godzilla » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:12 pm

kaiju_wars wrote:Million, billion, I still don't believe it took that long, I still believe that "the big bang" was when God made the universe, and I still believe it took only 7 days. (6 days, plus a day of rest)


It actually took much shorter for the universe to be corrected...

All of the universe was compacted into the Singularity. In theory, all of existence was contained within that Singularity. Therefore, when the Big Bang occurred, the universe at a speed faster than the speed of light. In conclusion, the Universe was technically created in less than a day.

Or always existed...within the singularity.
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby kaiju_wars » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:51 pm

Jomei wrote:
kaiju_wars, you don't have to respect science. It stands on its own strength. You benefit from it every day even if you reject the parts that conflict with your private religious feelings.



I respect science, to a degree. And I don't know all your beliefs, but by my morals and standards, I can't respect your beliefs because you can't respect mine. Now, I am a stubborn man, I stick by my morals and values. I won't bend them for anyone.

I don't see why you can't respect my beliefs, I mean it's really not that hard.
But science in itself, can be evil, so can Christianity. But without good and evil, balance is out of whack, and we wouldn't want that now would we? ;)
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Shadow wrote:It was so hot out today, I couldn't go up and see the girl I love.

Too bad, I was driving around town with her anyways. She said the change in your pocket wasn't enough for her.
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby Stuckey » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:01 pm

I still just believe in myself. That's all.
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby Jomei » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:04 pm

Stuckey wrote:I still just believe in myself. That's all.


Believe in the me that believes in you, SHIMON

Kick reason to the curb and do the impossible!
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby Legionmaster » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:05 pm

Jomei wrote:That's just the same as the intelligent designers. It's pseudo-science; on the surface it's superficially scientific, but it doesn't stand under actual scientific scrutiny.

IDers are Creationists or believe in aliens. They're even worse than Flat Earth people.
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby SuperSaiyan4Godzilla » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:19 pm

kaiju_wars wrote:
Jomei wrote:
kaiju_wars, you don't have to respect science. It stands on its own strength. You benefit from it every day even if you reject the parts that conflict with your private religious feelings.



I respect science, to a degree. And I don't know all your beliefs, but by my morals and standards, I can't respect your beliefs because you can't respect mine. Now, I am a stubborn man, I stick by my morals and values. I won't bend them for anyone.

I don't see why you can't respect my beliefs, I mean it's really not that hard.
But science in itself, can be evil, so can Christianity. But without good and evil, balance is out of whack, and we wouldn't want that now would we? ;)


You see, the main issue between you and Jomei is the mere misunderstanding of what religion is and what science is.

Science does not concern itself the human experience of the "why?" It concerns itself with the "how?"

Religion and faith concerns itself with the "why?" and human experience. However, it does not concern itself with the "how?"

Creation stories in ancient days serve the same purpose as science today. Humans used theories and observations that were present for them to make a theory on how the world started. However, today, we have evidence that is quite the contrary and based off better, more accurate observations.

When religion starts trying to interfere with the "how?," it finds itself in the wrong place. Religion is no longer about how the universe came into existence, but the factor humans place in it.

Science does the same thing too.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby Mitchal » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:42 pm

We wouldn't suffer unless God wanted us to.

So God enjoys watching us suffer. To deny that God enjoys watching his children in pain is to deny that God is all-powerful. There would be no pain if he didn't want it.
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby Cimmerian Dragon » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:01 pm

kaiju_wars wrote:I don't see why you can't respect my beliefs, I mean it's really not that hard.
But science in itself, can be evil, so can Christianity.


Science can't be evil, it is merely a systematic manner of thought. You can use it for evil purposes, but the system itself is obviously a moral neutral. Also, the difference between respecting your beliefs and respecting Jomei's beliefs comes down to rationality. Believing in something because other people wrote it down a long time ago is not the same as believing something because it has been tested to the best of our abilities.

The scientific model of creation is a theory based upon logical principles, the basis of which can be thoroughly explained to anyone who cares to learn them. Religion is based on faith alone, and cannot be explained in terms which can be understood without sharing that faith. You say your beliefs are based upon the Bible, which is a book written by people who (ostensibly) had faith that they were accurately transcribing the word of God. Of course, if you're basing your beliefs on that book, then your faith is in the human authors and not God, but I digress. Faith can be a wonderful thing when it fills in the blanks in our knowledge, or gives meaning to our lives. However, when you choose to accept as literal truth certain tenants of faith that directly conflict with rational theory, it is hard to respect that.

Saying that the earth was created in six days is as scientifically unsound as if you looked at a fully grown man and insisted that he was born this morning. I don't need to look at his birth certificate in order to take the evidence into account and logically conclude that he is much older. If you tell me that you have faith in your belief regardless of the biological evidence, why should I respect that? You might say that determining a human being's age is much simpler than determining the age of the Earth, but that's not really true. To anyone that understands geology, the issue is nearly as obvious. In both situations, my conclusions are upheld by objective observations, yours are not.

Now, all that being said, I do think that everyone must respect your right to believe what you do. I can respect your choice without respecting the ideas you embrace. Respecting your faith does not mean that others must pander to it, but it does mean that you should not be forced to renounce them. Believe what you want, but don't be surprised when people challenge you to provide more than faith as evidence to support your assertions.



EDIT: Darn it, I'm just repeating myself now...here, let me repeat my last attempt at explaining this in the clearest possible terms:

Spirituality is VHS, and Science is BetaMax. People base their lives around whichever fits their heart best, but they can't pull a cassette out of one, and expect it to play in the other. Let Bob watch his videos in peace. Don't tell him he's evil for picking his standard. Don't throttle him because your tapes won't play for him. Most importantly, don't burn his tapes and smash his player because they aren't compatible with the equipment that you inherited from your Grandma. Just smile at Bob, and be on your way, secure in the knowledge that what you have chosen works for you. That's called being a civilized human being, and whether you've built your life on a foundation of science or reason, being civilized is something that we can all do together.
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby Jomei » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:18 pm

Cimmerian Dragon, as reasonable as all that is, don't you feel like you just wasted a lot of time? Nothing you said up there is in the King James version of the Bible, so it's irrelevant. DUH!
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby Malchik » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:19 pm

kaiju_wars wrote:Now, I am a stubborn man, I stick by my morals and values. I won't bend them for anyone.

You will inadvertently, everyone's does.

I don't see why you can't respect my beliefs, I mean it's really not that hard.

Define what you want out of the term "respect". Does it encompass allowing people to sprout inaccurate nonsense?
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby SuperSaiyan4Godzilla » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:21 pm

Jomei wrote:Cimmerian Dragon, as reasonable as all that is, don't you feel like you just wasted a lot of time? Nothing you said up there is in the King James version of the Bible, so it's irrelevant. DUH!


Jomei, stop. You're being an asshole.

I disagree with kaiju_wars' views too, but I don't mock him. I don't understand (fully) how people can believe some things, but I don't handle it the same way you are.

So, stop.
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby Jomei » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:24 pm

SuperSaiyan4Godzilla wrote:
Jomei wrote:Cimmerian Dragon, as reasonable as all that is, don't you feel like you just wasted a lot of time? Nothing you said up there is in the King James version of the Bible, so it's irrelevant. DUH!


Jomei, stop. You're being an asshole.

I disagree with kaiju_wars' views too, but I don't mock him. I don't understand (fully) how people can believe some things, but I don't handle it the same way you are.

So, stop.


I'm not mocking him. I'm accurately representing what he said.

Then I see no need for me to respect your beliefs. I will gladly listen to what you have to say, but I believe it on how the King James bible is written.


I see your accusation and raise you one.

edit: ss4g and I seem to have misunderstood each other. In case anyone else takes my above jab as an insult, I certainly don't mean it personally. It's a critique of a way of thinking, but I mean no ill-will against kaiju_wars.
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Re: Your Religous Views

Postby SuperSaiyan4Godzilla » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:47 pm

Jomei wrote:
SuperSaiyan4Godzilla wrote:
Jomei wrote:Cimmerian Dragon, as reasonable as all that is, don't you feel like you just wasted a lot of time? Nothing you said up there is in the King James version of the Bible, so it's irrelevant. DUH!


Jomei, stop. You're being an asshole.

I disagree with kaiju_wars' views too, but I don't mock him. I don't understand (fully) how people can believe some things, but I don't handle it the same way you are.

So, stop.


I'm not mocking him. I'm accurately representing what he said.


Negotiations have been settled.

Then I see no need for me to respect your beliefs. I will gladly listen to what you have to say, but I believe it on how the King James bible is written.


I see your accusation and raise you one.


There use to be a time when this type of statement would throw me into an anti-religious rant, but it doesn't anymore. I've been going to the school in the Bible Belt for so long, I'm use to it. And often times, such statement isn't even the truth. There are many modern beliefs that clash with the King James Bible.
But I, that am not shaped for sportive tricks
Nor made to court an amorous looking-glass;
I, that am rudely stamped, and want love's majesty
To strut before a wanton ambling nymph.
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