ULTRA-THREAD

[Godzilla 2000]

The legal dispute between Tsuburaya and Chaiyo is still going, and until that is dealt with don't expect any TPC-approved releases of the early Ultra Series in the US.

wait. wat.


I thought that was long over with.

Nope.

Last summer there was a lot of buzz on messages boards like Henshin Justice and Monster Zero (and here too, I think) that Tsuburaya Pro had won some final victory over Chaiyo. But, unfortunately, the people reporting that news misunderstood the story and got it wrong. The legal battles continue, with no end in sight.

That's it, I give up all hope of this series coming to the U.S.

[DaiKamonohashi]

The legal dispute between Tsuburaya and Chaiyo is still going, and until that is dealt with don't expect any TPC-approved releases of the early Ultra Series in the US.

wait. wat.


I thought that was long over with.

Nope.

Last summer there was a lot of buzz on messages boards like Henshin Justice and Monster Zero (and here too, I think) that Tsuburaya Pro had won some final victory over Chaiyo. But, unfortunately, the people reporting that news misunderstood the story and got it wrong. The legal battles continue, with no end in sight.

Well it would've been nice if someone had corrected those of us THEN. T___T

[kpa]

Well it would've been nice if someone had corrected those of us THEN. T___T

I agree. When I finally learned some of the details of the case I was really surprised that none of the reports I'd seen on fan forums (which included posts by fans who speak/read Japanese) were accurate.

[Rody]

Kpa, would you be able to supply some details on the present state of the debate, since no one else seems to have them?

You know, maybe Sci-Fi Japan should release some info to let others know as well.

[kpa]

Kpa, would you be able to supply some details on the present state of the debate, since no one else seems to have them?

The short version is that the legal battle between Tsuburaya Pro and Chaiyo has been fought on three fronts: Japan, Thailand and China. The case slowly moved up to the higher courts until Thai Supreme Court ruled in favor of Tsuburaya in 2007 and rejected an appeal from Chaiyo in 2008. The Chinese courts did the same in 2009. But the Japanese courts ( which are the most important for Tsuburaya) have repeatedly declared the Chaiyo contract to be valid. The 2011 ruling had nothing to do with ownership of the Ultraman rights but with financial issues due to the years of legal wrangling.

You know, maybe Sci-Fi Japan should release some info to let others know as well.

We will. After seeing the posts about the ruling last summer I looked into doing an article on SciFi Japan. But Tsuburaya Pro (understandably) didn't want to discuss on the record a current legal matter, and the Japanese news reports were vague and full of legalese (which is probably why so many people misunderstood those reports). Any article written for SFJ is thoroughly fact-checked so it is as accurate as possible, so we decided not to run the Chaiyo article until we had concrete info. It was only recently that I got the details from a company that has licensed Ultraman in the past, so we'll probably run an article in the near future.

[Rody]

Thank you, Kpa.



On another topic, I have now finished the original Ultraman show. I'm going to be fully honest; it wasn't very good. The writing often seemed rather sloppy, and at times it seemed painfully obvious that it was intended as a kids show. I still enjoyed it, though. My guess is that, like Varan for Toho, Ultraman was basically an experiment; a stepping stone to bigger and better things. I can't say this for sure, having not seen any other Showa Ultra series, but that's my guess.

[NSZ]

The short version is that the legal battle between Tsuburaya Pro and Chaiyo has been fought on three fronts: Japan, Thailand and China. The case slowly moved up to the higher courts until Thai Supreme Court ruled in favor of Tsuburaya in 2007 and rejected an appeal from Chaiyo in 2008. The Chinese courts did the same in 2009. But the Japanese courts (which are the most important for Tsuburaya) have repeatedly declared the Chaiyo contract to be valid.

I keep reading this part over and over, and my reaction is the same each time: Da fuq? So Thailand and even skreeonk China basically called Chaiyo's claim to be a load of malarky, and yet Japan ends up being the reason why we aren't seeing legit stateside releases of Showa era Ultras anytime soon by saying it's legit.

Clearly this is gonna be a problem that can only be solved through time-travel.

[Rody]

The irony; oh, the terrible irony....

[Megalon-5]

Damn, and I think Japan would be pulling for Tsuburaya here. Oh the bitter irony.

Clearly this is gonna be a problem that can only be solved through time-travel.

To the Tardis!

[Rody]

Random thought: a Doctor Who/Ultraman crossover could be pretty cool (if impossible).....

[Megalon-5]

A DW/Ultraman crossover would be the coolest thing ever. Too bad it's never gonna happen.....

[kpa]

You're welcome, Rody... though I disagreement of the original ULTRAMAN. I love that show!

The short version is that the legal battle between Tsuburaya Pro and Chaiyo has been fought on three fronts: Japan, Thailand and China. The case slowly moved up to the higher courts until Thai Supreme Court ruled in favor of Tsuburaya in 2007 and rejected an appeal from Chaiyo in 2008. The Chinese courts did the same in 2009. But the Japanese courts (which are the most important for Tsuburaya) have repeatedly declared the Chaiyo contract to be valid.

I keep reading this part over and over, and my reaction is the same each time: Da fuq? So Thailand and even skreeonk China basically called Chaiyo's claim to be a load of malarky, and yet Japan ends up being the reason why we aren't seeing legit stateside releases of Showa era Ultras anytime soon by saying it's legit.

Clearly this is gonna be a problem that can only be solved through time-travel.

One of the big hurdles for TPC is that the Chaiyo "contract" bears a hanko mark, which is a stamp signifying a document is official. The irony is that the hanko is easy to forge and yet carries much more weight with Japanese courts than a lot of other evidence. The case centers on a document -- supposedly drafted by TPC-- that gets the names of their shows wrong, lists the wrong number of episodes for several series, and even misspells Noboru Tsuburaya's name in his signature. On that alone, I can't imagine the case would have gone beyond Day 1 in an American courtroom.

[Rody]

You're welcome, Rody... though I disagreement of the original ULTRAMAN. I love that show!

Oh, I enjoyed it too; I just think that, critically speaking, it's very flawed.

So, if the Japanese courts would accept the possibility of the hanko being forged, the dispute could end?
Also, does this dispute prevent Tsuburaya from distributing ANY of their shows outside of Japan, or just the Showa series? It's not quite clear to me.

[Legion1979]

The short version is that the legal battle between Tsuburaya Pro and Chaiyo has been fought on three fronts: Japan, Thailand and China. The case slowly moved up to the higher courts until Thai Supreme Court ruled in favor of Tsuburaya in 2007 and rejected an appeal from Chaiyo in 2008. The Chinese courts did the same in 2009. But the Japanese courts (which are the most important for Tsuburaya) have repeatedly declared the Chaiyo contract to be valid.

I keep reading this part over and over, and my reaction is the same each time: Da fuq? So Thailand and even skreeonk China basically called Chaiyo's claim to be a load of malarky, and yet Japan ends up being the reason why we aren't seeing legit stateside releases of Showa era Ultras anytime soon by saying it's legit.

Clearly this is gonna be a problem that can only be solved through time-travel.

I...I thi...I...wha....

Da fug???

[Ethan]

It's sad Chaiyo/Sompote Sands is involved in such a nefarious affair. Their non-copyright infringement films are quite nice.

[kpa]

So, if the Japanese courts would accept the possibility of the hanko being forged, the dispute could end?

I guess so. But that would involve the Japanese courts changing how they've operated for decades. Change is always possible, but not likely.

Also, does this dispute prevent Tsuburaya from distributing ANY of their shows outside of Japan, or just the Showa series? It's not quite clear to me.

The dispute only involves the Ultra shows from ULTRA Q to ULTRAMAN TARO, the JAMBORG ACE series, and the two movies co-produced by Tsuburaya and Chaiyo. All the other TPC shows, films, etc are in the clear. Chaiyo did try to claim some ownership of all the characters in the shows-- which would have made it extremely difficult for Tsuburaya to internationally market a series like ULTRAMAN MAX which features classic monsters-- but the courts thankfully shot that down a few years back.

For anyone who wants to know more about this case, on SciFi Japan we ran a lengthy covering the legal battle from its beginnings up until 2007. There's pictures of the contract, descriptions of the various court rulings, plus details on how far Chaiyo tried to push their claim...

http://www.scifijapan.com/articles/2007 ... oductions/

[Jomei]

Noboru Truburaya!

OH my god.

I almost wish I hadn't joined TK until now just so I could use that name.

[Rody]

So TPC could release any of their Heisei series here in the states if they wanted to, provided they could find a distributor?

[kpa]

Noboru Truburaya!

OH my god.

I would think that should have been a pretty obvious clue the contract wasn't legit...

So TPC could release any of their Heisei series here in the states if they wanted to, provided they could find a distributor?

Like I posted before, Rody, only the first six Ultra series are in dispute with Chaiyo. Tsuburaya owns the rights to the other shows and can try to sell them outside Japan. They first went to court with Chaiyo in 1998, and since they have sold rights to the other shows in Asia and licensed TIGA to 4Kids. And a couple of years ago TIGA and DYNA were shown subtitled on a Japanese language station in Los Angeles. The problem is trying to find a distributor in the US.

[Rody]

Thanks, Kpa; I just wanted to make sure I understood.





HEY, MILL CREEK!!!!!