New kaiju game from Matt Frank + Simon Strange [Archive]

[Mr. Strange]

Question: Hypothetically if we get Kamacuras would his active camouflage power be a problem to make work?

Let me counter your question with a question - if he is invisible, how would the player controlling him know where he is? If the player controlling him can see him, what stops the opponents from seeing him?

Beams auto-target in all of the Godzilla games - but sometimes the auto-targeting gets disabled. (Rodan's special loop-fly move, for example) I could easily see Kamacuras "melding" into the ground, and no longer being targeted by beams. But it wouldn't be moving at the same time.

[Grayshot954]

^To answer your question its pretty simple. Have an outline form over the character just for the player who is controlling it on their screen. To all other players he is invisible/ mostly invisible. Also while Kamacuras is invisible, which takes alot of energy to sustain, he can't be targeted by energy weapons but physical attacks still do damage. More so then normal. This would even the playing field giving kamacuras a great offense but sad defense.

[Mr. Strange]

^To answer your question its pretty simple. Have an outline form over the character just for the player who is controlling it on their screen. To all other players he is invisible/ mostly invisible. Also while Kamacuras is invisible, which takes alot of energy to sustain, he can't be targeted by energy weapons but physical attacks still do damage. More so then normal. This would even the playing field giving kamacuras a great offense but sad defense.

But for players playing on the same screen, that wouldn't work.

Even if it was totally invisible, the camera motion would allow players to pinpoint its location exactly. If we kept the camera static, then it could easily run off-screen - bleh!

[Grayshot954]

Okay you got me there. How about a camaflouge that is cleary seen but stops all energy attacks from locking on? Players can still melee and see it but no energy attacks?

[Kaiju-King42]

It could also work like a teleporting move, like Biollante's. Kamacurus turns invisible, a quick buzzing noise is heard, and the next thing you know, Kamacuras is in a completely different position.

[Blackout286]

Mr. Strange, I have one question to ask. I understand that monsters can't be film accurate although I would like to know if possible changes could be done to help reach that near accurate level. Just small but appealing changes.

For example, Godzilla 90's, would it be possible to give this incarnation grey dorsal fins with dark back patches? I've noticed that the games had blue dorsal fins with dark base patches, but could it be changed? Also was the Godzilla 90's model in Unleashed a mixture between the Godzilla 1985 suit and the 89 suit? I kept thinking this since it looked like an awesome combination of the two IMO. A huge step up from the previous games.

[Mr. Strange]

Mr. Strange, I have one question to ask. I understand that monsters can't be film accurate although I would like to know if possible changes could be done to help reach that near accurate level. Just small but appealing changes.

We'll be getting feedback from all contributors on each model. If you care about cosmetic things, make sure you contribute, and participate in the feedback forums!

[jdude1996]

mr strange, you could have kamicuras' camouflage be completely invisible when he doesn't move but wen he does he slowly starts to come out of camouflage, kind of like the camouflage ability in halo.

[Supergeon]

Simon, during development on the other games did you ever have beam battles being decided by button mashing? If you are able to talk about it what methods did/didn't work?

Also, a question of mine was featured in the podcasts about Hedorah. You said that you didn't want to do it if you couldn't make it a fluid monster. Is this something you have thought about? What kind of things could be done to bring him to the game?

Is the spigot engine the exact same build that G:U ran on? Will the visuals be much better now that it will be on PC?

To elaborate on an earlier post (Brianzilla?) Have you played Godzilla Generations? That game was based on destruction, so that was obviously something that it had to do well. What complications could arise from having such a dynamic destruction system?

[Mr. Strange]

Simon, during development on the other games did you ever have beam battles being decided by button mashing? If you are able to talk about it what methods did/didn't work?

Is the spigot engine the exact same build that G:U ran on? Will the visuals be much better now that it will be on PC?

To elaborate on an earlier post (Brianzilla?) Have you played Godzilla Generations? That game was based on destruction, so that was obviously something that it had to do well. What complications could arise from having such a dynamic destruction system?

Spigot is the proprietary enigine that Pipeworks has been using for all of its games for 10 years. Take a look at the Deadliest Warrior (XBLA, PSN) for a recent example of it in action.

However, I think people should be prepared for visuals somewhat *worse* than G:U. I'm planning to make the best game I can make for the money we raise - but my focus is on great monsters, great combat, and wide appeal. I will almost certainly not be spending $300,000 on city art, or $250,000 on a snazzy Menu system. I also want the game to run great on lots of older systems - so I really have no interest in pushing polygon counts, or per-pixel shaders, or any of that. We'll have great monsters, and fantastic online combat. That is the focus.

As for "button mashing" determining the victor of a beam fight - it's no good. I spoke about it at length during our grappling discussion a week back or so. In short, let me explain the problem:

Button mashing is not a measure of "who can mash the button faster" but rather "who knows to start mashing the button first." This makes it a mechanic in which people who know the game well just dominate everyone else - which means that in most matches one person will just always win every beam fight. This teaches new players "never use beams."

Against the AI, the problems get even worse. The AI can crush you in a mash-speed contest, every time. So we need to specifically town down the mash-rate the AI uses. But this simply sets a bar which determines whether you, as a player, will always beat the AI in a beam fight, or always lose. Neither option is much fun.

Beam fights need to be risky. A skill-based test eliminates that risk, and makes beam-fights very one-sided. That is no good. Thus, beam fights need to be determined in large part by luck.

[Mr. Strange]

How did I double-post? I must be developing strange powers...

[Supergeon]

I edited my post with a question about Hedorah, probably while you were responding. He wasn't included in the game because you guys didn't want to do him badly because the engine cant handle a fluid skeleton. What can be done to get around this and get him into the game.

[Legionmaster]

I'm perfectly ok with Hedorah getting hit by attacks just like everyone else and whatnot. So long as he's there.

[Mr. Strange]

The issue with Hedorah was that I wanted his skeleton to morph dynamically into his different forms. I would solve that problem by not wanting his skeleton to morph. That means he'd just have the one fighting form - problem solved.

[Living Corpse]

Question: Hypothetically if we get Kamacuras would his active camouflage power be a problem to make work?

Let me counter your question with a question - if he is invisible, how would the player controlling him know where he is? If the player controlling him can see him, what stops the opponents from seeing him?

Beams auto-target in all of the Godzilla games - but sometimes the auto-targeting gets disabled. (Rodan's special loop-fly move, for example) I could easily see Kamacuras "melding" into the ground, and no longer being targeted by beams. But it wouldn't be moving at the same time.

Simple, you don't make him completely invisible, make him fast and have some light distortion like the Predator, just enough that other players can't keep track of him (a barely visible target moving fast) and their own monsters at the same time who they are trying to maneuver around buildings. The player controlling Kamacuras doesn't have this problem he just needs to keep his eye on the his enemies location since he'd have a general idea of where his own monster is while the enemy would have to guess.

I don't think it'd be much of a hindrance for the guy using the mantis, plenty of fighting games have fighters that turn invisible and I've seen guys do insane combos with Reptile or Smoke invisible and still keep track of their own fighter while the other player is trying to get a lucky strike to make him visible again.

The four things to make this work but not broken, I think is...

1. So really I think all we need is enough of a light distortion that you can see something is there if you look for it's outlines thus letting the player controlling him still be able to keep track of his Kamacuras.

2. Make him fast enough that the other players have a hard time keeping track of him while he's invisible and their own monsters.

3. Make him immune to beam lock on when invisible. Or fast enough that it is hard to keep him in a beam lock.

4. Give Kamacuras a SLOW recharge time so this power isn't broken and abused by spammers.

[PopInPicsPresents]

Here's an odd question, would anyone find a First Person Mode interesting? Kinda like what they've done with the AVP games.

[miguelnuva]

Ultraman
Gamera
Legion

Um, the first one isn't happening. Ever. In fact it's part of the reason I keep saying Zone Fighter, since he's the closest thing we have to UM. The latter two will never happen. Period.

I thought we were going to try and use a loophole to get these guys in, but if it was a choice between Zone Fighter and Ultraman Zone gets my vote.

Unfortunately for us, if Mr. Frank and Mr. Strange used that loophole, Toho could very well pull the plug.[/quote]

ABout this TOHO might pull the plug where did this idea of come from and do we know for 100% that TOHO still feels this way?

[Mr. Strange]

Unfortunately for us, if Mr. Frank and Mr. Strange used that loophole, Toho could very well pull the plug.

It's not a loophole - it's not a deception, and it's not something that gets anybody in trouble.

Imagine somebody wanted to do a fanfic crossover between Star Wars and Batman - to sell it commercially, they would need to get permission from LucasArts and DC - that sounds like a nightmare. Trying to make a game, or a movie, which used Ultraman & Godzilla would be like that.

However, LEGO has made Batman legos in association with DC. They have also made Star Wars legos in association with LucasArts. Two totally different products - there is no crossover.

Of course, if you buy both sets, you can totally play with them together. That is acceptable, and doesn't upset anybody. The point is that each purchased item is its own IP, so the rights are clear.

If you want to buy Coke and Pepsi and then mix them, you're totally within your rights. But if Coke were to sell Pepsi - that would be totally different.

The point is - there is no trick. I'm just proposing that we make a Gamera game, an Ultraman game, a Zone Fighter game, a Godzilla game, an original monsters game - as many as we want. And I'm promising that they will all use the same basic technology, so that players will be able to combine data. But at no point am I ever planning, or implying, that TOHO's intellectual property would ever be mixed with another IP in a commercial product.

Deep breaths - it's all on the level.

[Brianzilla2004]

However, I think people should be prepared for visuals somewhat *worse* than G:U. I'm planning to make the best game I can make for the money we raise - but my focus is on great monsters, great combat, and wide appeal. I will almost certainly not be spending $300,000 on city art, or $250,000 on a snazzy Menu system. I also want the game to run great on lots of older systems - so I really have no interest in pushing polygon counts, or per-pixel shaders, or any of that. We'll have great monsters, and fantastic online combat. That is the focus.

Honestly, this worries me. I'm not expecting Crysis here, but making the game look equal to or potentially ever "somewhat worse" than a 4.5-year-old Wii game? Now THAT'S a crisis. A lot of games have various graphical settings, and can run well on low-end PC's while offering quality graphics on higher settings. I'd argue that having a nice presentation is important too. If the menu system looks like something someone made with MS Paint, that's a serious problem. I've never played a game that was any good that had a shoddy menu scheme.

Yes, the gameplay is the most important thing, but if the game's gonna look like it's ten years old, I might as well just play a game that's actually ten years old, that I don't need to pay for additional content for.

Considering that this is a game that will be entirely funded by the fans, it seems like solid visuals would be a top concern. There's a reason AAA titles always look great. There's a reason that a lot of more obscure games are more fun to play, despite their lackluster visuals. People want to be wowed visually. They want to be impressed with what their money is paying for.

As a lifelong fan of Godzilla, I want the Big G to get the all-star treatment he deserves. I want him to wow and dazzle fans and non-fans alike on the PC. I think we as fans have put up with enough crap from people criticizing the franchise. Making an ugly game makes the series look bad. We fans deserve to better. The King of the Monsters deserves it.

[Captain Aktion]

You guys might be surprised at what 4-5 year old games made for other systems look like on my reasonably priced PC. High-res polys and texture maps go a LONG ways. Early gen 360 and PS3 games relied on it. And for consoles? I could point to how the MGS, Shadow of the Colossus, and God of War re-releases have looked with some minor upgrades, again, mostly in the high-res department, which any comp can do.

Just sayin'.