New kaiju game from Matt Frank + Simon Strange [Archive]

[miguelnuva]

@Svitska Donkun

I hope this doesn't sound like an attack but you do kinda shut down most of the ideas that get tossed out for this game.

[hammysammy59]

I would love to see some little surprises pop up in the game. I'd have simpler triggers for them though, so they're a little more likely to happen--basically, there's a 1 in X chance of an object or cameo monster appearing. Due to their random nature, I'd probably not have them impact directly gameplay.

[Svitska Donkun]

@Svitska Donkun

I hope this doesn't sound like an attack but you do kinda shut down most of the ideas that get tossed out for this game.

No more so than anyone else. My 3 main things are Story being one of the last priorities(Not OPPOSED to story, its just not important), a definitive TOHO roster, and console support. In reality, I cannot shut down anything as long as more people oppose me than agree, and even so, what we say shouldn't actually have any bearing on the game at all, decisions should be made by the entire fandom. Though small, TK is a very small voice of it and offers a narrow perspective.

[Mr. Strange]

I mean, shit the fact that we NEED the fans to raise money for the game, rather than getting a legit development company to produce it, should say something about how executives view the property's marketability.

Actually, there is a really interesting reason that larger companies, as a rule, do not make Godzilla games.

The problem is that Toho is a Japanese company, and so respects Japanese copyright law. Japanese copyright law (J-law) is very different from American copyright law. In America, I can sell my copyright, or a limited use version of it, to anyone. I can write a contract saying that I grant permission to use my IP, in exchange for X. That's legally binding, and so people are willing to pay for X.

In Japan, you CANNOT sell your copyright. Further, copyright is held by the individual, not by a company. This means that Toho doesn't own the rights to most Godzilla monsters!

So here is how the Atari games happened:

Atari approaches Toho, and wants to buy the rights to make Godzilla games. They have to spell out exactly which monsters (because Toho has to send folks out to get agreements from each individual who owns the copyright for that monster) and a length of time. They set a price for this, and sign a contract. But since J-law says that an individual CANNOT sell their copyright, Atari has actually bought nothing. They have bought a handshake deal. Toho, (or any of the individuals they are now representing) can, at any time, decide to revoke their permission for copyright. That would make it illegal for Atari to publish the game. The game takes 2 years or so to produce, so suddenly losing one or more monsters would be a huge problem. And that potential problem can't ever go away - since it is an artifact of J-law.

The result is that American companies pretty much never consider it an acceptable risk to make games (or anything else) based on Japanese properties - because they cannot actually buy the rights to use those properties. As a result, the only people you get making Godzilla games are companies who are in financial trouble, and are willing to take the risks.

Honestly, I think the ONLY way to ever get a really good Godzilla game made would be to have it done in a not-for-profit manner, like we are working on here. If we are not trying to make a profit then Toho can feel comfortable that we are working with their best interests at heart.

[Legionmaster]

Though small, TK is a very small voice of it and offers a narrow perspective.

But a moment ago TK was the largest sample of G-Fans you found an example of. So is it a large part or a small part? Get your story straight before your mindless rhetoric gets you look foolish.

[g2kmaster]

I mean, shit the fact that we NEED the fans to raise money for the game, rather than getting a legit development company to produce it, should say something about how executives view the property's marketability.

Actually, there is a really interesting reason that larger companies, as a rule, do not make Godzilla games.

The problem is that Toho is a Japanese company, and so respects Japanese copyright law. Japanese copyright law (J-law) is very different from American copyright law. In America, I can sell my copyright, or a limited use version of it, to anyone. I can write a contract saying that I grant permission to use my IP, in exchange for X. That's legally binding, and so people are willing to pay for X.

In Japan, you CANNOT sell your copyright. Further, copyright is held by the individual, not by a company. This means that Toho doesn't own the rights to most Godzilla monsters!

So here is how the Atari games happened:

Atari approaches Toho, and wants to buy the rights to make Godzilla games. They have to spell out exactly which monsters (because Toho has to send folks out to get agreements from each individual who owns the copyright for that monster) and a length of time. They set a price for this, and sign a contract. But since J-law says that an individual CANNOT sell their copyright, Atari has actually bought nothing. They have bought a handshake deal. Toho, (or any of the individuals they are now representing) can, at any time, decide to revoke their permission for copyright. That would make it illegal for Atari to publish the game. The game takes 2 years or so to produce, so suddenly losing one or more monsters would be a huge problem. And that potential problem can't ever go away - since it is an artifact of J-law.

The result is that American companies pretty much never consider it an acceptable risk to make games (or anything else) based on Japanese properties - because they cannot actually buy the rights to use those properties. As a result, the only people you get making Godzilla games are companies who are in financial trouble, and are willing to take the risks.

Honestly, I think the ONLY way to ever get a really good Godzilla game made would be to have it done in a not-for-profit manner, like we are working on here. If we are not trying to make a profit then Toho can feel comfortable that we are working with their best interests at heart.

Please tell me that someone in Japan has tried to get those kinds of laws changed. That just seems crappy. It makes those who want to work for the copyright holders feel as if they are on a bed of needles below some thin ice while the copyright holders can possibly look like... well, pains.

[GIGAN05]

Hammysammy59 Wrote:
I would love to see some little surprises pop up in the game. I'd have simpler triggers for them though, so they're a little more likely to happen--basically, there's a 1 in X chance of an object or cameo monster appearing. Due to their random nature, I'd probably not have them impact directly gameplay.

True, just thought it would be great to have that due to the massive imput the fan base is having on the supposed new game.

[Godz]

I mean, shit the fact that we NEED the fans to raise money for the game, rather than getting a legit development company to produce it, should say something about how executives view the property's marketability.

Actually, there is a really interesting reason that larger companies, as a rule, do not make Godzilla games.

The problem is that Toho is a Japanese company, and so respects Japanese copyright law. Japanese copyright law (J-law) is very different from American copyright law. In America, I can sell my copyright, or a limited use version of it, to anyone. I can write a contract saying that I grant permission to use my IP, in exchange for X. That's legally binding, and so people are willing to pay for X.

In Japan, you CANNOT sell your copyright. Further, copyright is held by the individual, not by a company. This means that Toho doesn't own the rights to most Godzilla monsters!

So here is how the Atari games happened:

Atari approaches Toho, and wants to buy the rights to make Godzilla games. They have to spell out exactly which monsters (because Toho has to send folks out to get agreements from each individual who owns the copyright for that monster) and a length of time. They set a price for this, and sign a contract. But since J-law says that an individual CANNOT sell their copyright, Atari has actually bought nothing. They have bought a handshake deal. Toho, (or any of the individuals they are now representing) can, at any time, decide to revoke their permission for copyright. That would make it illegal for Atari to publish the game. The game takes 2 years or so to produce, so suddenly losing one or more monsters would be a huge problem. And that potential problem can't ever go away - since it is an artifact of J-law.

The result is that American companies pretty much never consider it an acceptable risk to make games (or anything else) based on Japanese properties - because they cannot actually buy the rights to use those properties. As a result, the only people you get making Godzilla games are companies who are in financial trouble, and are willing to take the risks.

Honestly, I think the ONLY way to ever get a really good Godzilla game made would be to have it done in a not-for-profit manner, like we are working on here. If we are not trying to make a profit then Toho can feel comfortable that we are working with their best interests at heart.

No offense intended whatsoever here, but, I think if Atari hadn't been so hard nosed with deadlines and finances and whatnot, and Pipeworks staff had been more in-tune with what Godzilla fans wanted....those games could've been "really good". They had great monster rosters, for the most part...yet so many monsters were not handled accurately, be it missing roars, bad character design, questionable attributes, etc. If G:U was given six more months (or however long would be realistic to remove glitches like the frequent text overlaps, redundant unlock messages, Kiryu's broken Absolute Zero, etc) and was a 360 title with traditional controls (since the advertised "Godzilla can attack one monster with his atomic breath, punch another, tail whip a third" idea didn't really pan out) and a better, branching storyline? I could see it being rated 8-9/10 from credible gaming review sources. Granted I am no expert, but I saw the potential there (which is why I rated it fairly high on my GameFaqs review upon launch), you just REALLY had to be a G-fan to dig deep and enjoy it.

[Svitska Donkun]

Though small, TK is a very small voice of it and offers a narrow perspective.

But a moment ago TK was the largest sample of G-Fans you found an example of. So is it a large part or a small part? Get your story straight before your mindless rhetoric gets you look foolish.

Tohokingdom is a very small part of a small thing. I thought I made this very clear.

[Goji]

Again, where are all of these votes even coming from? Who's "we"? I'm assuming we're looking at votes from an army of 11 year old from the Atari boards?

[Mr. Strange]

Hammysammy59 Wrote:
I would love to see some little surprises pop up in the game. I'd have simpler triggers for them though, so they're a little more likely to happen--basically, there's a 1 in X chance of an object or cameo monster appearing. Due to their random nature, I'd probably not have them impact directly gameplay.

True, just thought it would be great to have that due to the massive imput the fan base is having on the supposed new game.

I'm all in favor of special scripted sequences, cameos, etc.

Figuring out the right trigger conditions for that sort of thing is a very delicate balancing act - you want players to feel as though they have earned something, but not make it so obscure that people don't find it. Perhaps a list of explicit objectives, or challenges in each level would be a good idea?

[GIGAN05]

Mr.Strange Wrote:
I'm all in favor of special scripted sequences, cameos, etc.

Figuring out the right trigger conditions for that sort of thing is a very delicate balancing act - you want players to feel as though they have earned something, but not make it so obscure that people don't find it. Perhaps a list of explicit objectives, or challenges in each level would be a good idea?

Sounds like a great idea .

How about this one for an example?

An underground level of some sorts and one of the objectives is to destroy a set amount of Meganulon in a cavern ( say about 20 in this case ) before moving on. But if you desire you can hang around and destroy a few more. Once 56 are destroyed, part of the wall in the cavern will collapse and an egg will appear. And thus the reward and easter egg here is a Baby Rodan hatching out of the egg.

[Gawdziller]

Giant Condor or nothing.

[jdude1996]

Goji I get them from all over the site. If I see someone say they want that character, I tally it up

[Grayshot954]

Now i have a question about the payment options.

Mr. Strange lets say I donate 50 dollars. Can I put that 50 dollars toward a monster so it can be created even though to garantee its entry its 500 dollars. Like lets say I choose Zone Fighter, I donate 50 dollars toward him. Can 9 other people donate 50 dollars each to garantee him in the game?

[Goji]

Honestly, I'd gladly donate $500 if it meant this game would actually see release, and that I could be assured most of my donation would go to Hedorah's development.

[hammysammy59]

That's an awesome idea for a level! Again, I'm not so sure about the criteria for making the baby Rodan appear, but I love the concept of brawling inside the Rodan lair, and having a baby Rodan hatch in the background. Meganulons squirming around is pure awesomeness too.

[Mr. Strange]

Now i have a question about the payment options.

Mr. Strange lets say I donate 50 dollars. Can I put that 50 dollars toward a monster so it can be created even though to garantee its entry its 500 dollars. Like lets say I choose Zone Fighter, I donate 50 dollars toward him. Can 9 other people donate 50 dollars each to garantee him in the game?

There is no clean way to do this without putting more effort into your side. For example, if you pool money with friends to get $50 you can absolutely submit for a monster - but that would be one submission (meaning one forum login, one copy of the game, etc) and not 10.

If you want to organize your friends such that they each give just $5, and give you $45 so that you, personally, can put in $500 - but they still all get design discussion logins? More power to you.

[Goji]

^ Wow, that's a lot work man! I'll give you props for taking on something like that.

A Godzilla is a given, but other (Toho) monsters that have to be in this game are:

-A Showa-era Godzilla. Whether if be '54, '74/'75, or the infamous King-Goji or Mosu-Goji, there needs to be some Showa rep.
-Godzilla 90's
-Rodan (Any really)
-Mothra (Tokyo S.O.S. would be the best version to model her off of, IMO)
-King Ghidorah (Preferably not a lame hybrid, this time)
-MechaGodzilla (I suppose the Heisei one would make the most sense..)
-Anguirus
-Gigan
-Megalon
-Hedorah
-Destoroyah
-SpaceGodzilla
-Biollante

Personal "must haves" list (no order). These are monsters I personally feel need to be in the game, if not at launch, then eventually.

-Battra
-Jet Jaguar
-Kiryu
-Baragon
-GINO/Zilla
-Mecha-King Ghidorah
-Megaguirus
-Orga
-MOGUERA
-Titanosaurus
-Gorosaurus
-Monster X(I)
-Ebirah
-Kumonga
-Kamacuras
-Varan
-Manda

"Wish" list (no order). These guys are probably less likely to see many votes, but I'd love to see them.
-Gabara
-Gaira
-Sanda
-Gezora
-(Showa) Mechagodzilla
-Zone Fighter
-Dogora (as an unplayable boss)
-Giant Condor (an air strike, intended as a joke)
-Super X's (Super X would have the cadmium missiles, which could briefly "knock out" monsters, but would be the weakest of the three, X-II could have the Fire Mirror, and be able to reflect monster beams, while the X-III could freeze opponents like it did in G:STE)

Kong's not ever going to happen, so I didn't even bother including him on any of these.

[W2daERN]

I have a question: How would we donate the money, if we reach the goal? Would we have to transfer money online or mail it in an envelope?