New kaiju game from Matt Frank + Simon Strange [Archive]

[Mr. Strange]

I've felt for a while that the original thread for discussing the new game has become a bit... unwieldy. I want to keep the main discussion going there, but this thread is meant to act as a bit of a catch-up introduction to the process, for those who have not been following along for the past month.

THE BIG IDEA:

* Simon Strange will develop a new kaiju game with his own company - Sunstone Games, LLC. By licensing the Spigot engine (the modern version of the same engine which ran all three Godzilla games, plus Deadliest Warrior & other Pipeworks games over the past decade) and hiring most of the original Pipeworks monster-making team, this new game will focus on monster-on-monster combat. The game will be funded by the fans, via Kickstarter. Everyone contributing will be given a voice in the design & developmet of the game - even allowed to submit custom monsters to be included!

LICENSE ISSUES: (Will this be a Godzilla game?)

* As of today (April 8th) Sunstone Games, LLC. does not have a deal with Toho to use their monsters in any project - but we are actively pursuing that license. The game will have several releases over time - and each release might be branded with one or more licensed properties. This will allow players to mix any and all Kaiju we license at any point, which means it is very possible that you will be able to fight Godzilla vs. Gamera vs. King Kong vs. original monsters.

Each release will be a stand-alone game, which can be purchased separately. But players with more than one of the games will be able to mix and match characters, locations, and game modes from any release. The key trick is this: each release contains monsters from only 1 IP. This means that Toho shares in the profits of the Toho release, but not in any original monster releases, Gamera releases, etc.

PLATFORM ISSUES: (Will it be available on consoles?)

* The game will be available on PC, probably via Steam. (Mac and Linux are likely, depending on how recently Pipeworks has updated their engine...) The game will be put out on consoles if enough money is raised to pay for the additional up-front costs demanded by console platform owners. Console releases are problematic, because the cannot have frequent content-updates and newly-themed releases. If we do not get the money for an initial console release, it is very possible that (after the game has become established) we may be approached by a publisher who will fund our transfer to the console realm.

KICKSTARTER ISSUES: (What will the rewards be like?)

* The current reward scheme is something close to the following:
$5 - Get a login to the game discussion forums, where you can participate in all design decisions.
$15 - Get a free copy of the game upon release.
$30 - Get access to bi-monthly beta builds, so you can play the game in-progress and give better feedback.
$50 - Get a free copy of every release of the game (all future content is free for you!)
$100 - Get access to weekly builds, so you can keep your finger on the pulse of development at all times!
$200 - Get your voice in the game, reading one or more of the announcer lines.
$400 - Appear in the opening cinematic (must be able to travel to LA area)
$500 - Name one monster to be in the game - including any original monster you have created.

(Rewards are cumulative - you get all rewards up to the amount you donate.)

The great thing about Kickstarter is that if, for some reason, we fail to make our $300,000 minimum goal, no actual money changes hands. If that happens we just re-scope the project smaller, and try again. But we're hoping to make at least $500,000 or more! (Enough money to do everything we want!)

We are hoping to begin the Kickstarter campaign an the end of May, or early June. Subject to change.


GAMEPLAY ISSUES: (Will it be like StE? Unleashed? Something else?)

Because all contributors will be able to discuss design decisions, game mechanics can evolve organically via feedback. We have already had some very lively discussions in the main thread about rolling (back in!), grappling (more throws, and better reversals!), regeneration (minimal, or cut entirely!), powerups (bring back rage!) and more. My biggest draw to the franchise has always been the wildly different types of combat required for each monster - so I will likely try to keep those elements intact.

TIMELINE ISSUES: (when will it be released? When will donations be accepted?)

Everything is subject to change, but I'm hoping that the Kickstarter campaign will run for 30 days between mid-May and mid-June. The first public release of the game will probably take place 8 months after funding, so we are looking at maybe March 1st of 2013 before the general public gets a piece. I hope that we can start giving preview builds to contributors around September - they will be rough, but it will let folks give feedback on controls, compatibility issues, etc.

More importantly, once the game is in the hands of the public, how long will we continue to support it, add more monsters, etc? The answer is "until the money runs out."

Let's keep the discussion going in the main thread! Please do not post a response here, unless it is to point out some important thing I missed in my overview.

[zilla103192]

While I will still continue to follow the production of the game and see how it goes, because I know things can change...

At the current premise for the game, I don't think I will be donating.

I don't like this "release different packs from different franchises, so they can all play together" Idea. I am sorry Simon, but I just don't. It doesn't appeal to me at all.

That makes it sound more like a fan made game, where the fans went crazy and just threw everything but the kitchen sink in. And I just don't like those kind of games.

I want a good game focused on Godzilla, or a good game focused on Original-created monsters, or a good game focused on whatever other franchises you could get rights too. But not a combination of them all.

And having it so people can download whatever packs they want, and not download the packs they don't want just doesn't click with me either. Because I would feel like I have an unfinished game.

Honestly, I say have a game similar to the pipeworks games, with an all original monster cast. And just release new monsters/skin packs. You wouldn't have to deal with copy right issues, and fans of whatever franchise you would be trying to impress won't be disappointed if the game doesn't come out as good as they wanted it to.

Like I said though, I will still be watching closely, so if the game changes and I like the outcome, I will reconsider donating.

[Mr. Strange]

While I will still continue to follow the production of the game and see how it goes, because I know things can change...

At the current premise for the game, I don't think I will be donating.

I don't like this "release different packs from different franchises, so they can all play together" Idea. I am sorry Simon, but I just don't. It doesn't appeal to me at all.

I'd like to change your mind. I think this is a fantastic idea, but I am totally willing to admit that I might not be presenting it in the most appealing way possible. (for example, I want you to LOVE IT, not HATE IT.)

I suspect my language is misleading you. Let's take an example of how Capcom is doing something similar:

1 - Street Fighter 4 was a cool game.
2 - Super Street Fighter 4 was essentially the same game, but with a few more characters.
3 - Marvel vs. Capcom 3 was similar to both games, but had 3-on-3 fighting, and a bunch of Marvel characters.
4 - Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 was very similar to MvC3, but added more characters.
5 - Capcom vs. Tekken is based on the same engine, but uses no marvel character, and instead uses Tekken characters.

This is pretty much exactly what I'm proposing. All five games were built using the same technology, and shared assets between them. Marvel gets paid for the use of their characters in games #3 and #4, but gets nothing for games #1,2,5. Some people complained about how #2 and #4 were just expansions on previous games, but each product was a full release - not a half-baked product.

If (when) we get the Godzilla license, we will be creating a Godzilla-focused game with all the bells and whistles. But we will be using the same engine and architecture when we create a Gamera game, or an Ultraman game, or a game with original monsters. Every game will be stand-alone, and complete.

The only difference is that some players might be clever enough to use the characters from on game to play one of the other games. Just like loading a mod on any PC game, or creating a custom server for your favorite MMO.

[Svitska Donkun]

But if we were to do a Godzilla game, there would still need to be expansion packs for that as well..its not purely a multi franchise thing....while I will agree, I don't see the Ultra-verse and Godzilla-verse colliding, they're extremely different.Ultraman has more in common with Power rangers at this point than Godzilla. I'm not too hostile about Gamera because he fits so well in. Monsters like Cloverfield, Ultraman, and even King Kong to some extent, don;t really feel right next to Toho monsters.

[UltramanGoji]

But if we were to do a Godzilla game, there would still need to be expansion packs for that as well..its not purely a multi franchise thing....while I will agree, I don't see the Ultra-verse and Godzilla-verse colliding, they're extremely different.Ultraman has more in common with Power rangers at this point than Godzilla. I'm not too hostile about Gamera because he fits so well in. Monsters like Cloverfield, Ultraman, and even King Kong to some extent, don;t really feel right next to Toho monsters.

For once, I agree with Donkun.

[Legionmaster]

But if we were to do a Godzilla game, there would still need to be expansion packs for that as well..its not purely a multi franchise thing....while I will agree, I don't see the Ultra-verse and Godzilla-verse colliding, they're extremely different.Ultraman has more in common with Power rangers at this point than Godzilla. I'm not too hostile about Gamera because he fits so well in. Monsters like Cloverfield, Ultraman, and even King Kong to some extent, don;t really feel right next to Toho monsters.

So then if those expansions come out, don't buy them. That's the point.

[Svitska Donkun]

But if we were to do a Godzilla game, there would still need to be expansion packs for that as well..its not purely a multi franchise thing....while I will agree, I don't see the Ultra-verse and Godzilla-verse colliding, they're extremely different.Ultraman has more in common with Power rangers at this point than Godzilla. I'm not too hostile about Gamera because he fits so well in. Monsters like Cloverfield, Ultraman, and even King Kong to some extent, don;t really feel right next to Toho monsters.

So then if those expansions come out, don't buy them. That's the point.

But I wouldn't want to run into those characters playing online.

[Mr. Strange]

But if we were to do a Godzilla game, there would still need to be expansion packs for that as well..its not purely a multi franchise thing....while I will agree, I don't see the Ultra-verse and Godzilla-verse colliding, they're extremely different.Ultraman has more in common with Power rangers at this point than Godzilla. I'm not too hostile about Gamera because he fits so well in. Monsters like Cloverfield, Ultraman, and even King Kong to some extent, don;t really feel right next to Toho monsters.

So then if those expansions come out, don't buy them. That's the point.

But I wouldn't want to run into those characters playing online.

We don't have to make online matchmaking a free-for-all. We could let you restrict opponents to only characters you own, or only characters in your franchise, or only some subset (like, Godzilla + original monsters are ok, but no other IP monsters.)

[Svitska Donkun]

That kind of thinking causes a certain amount of sacrifices in terms of online matchmaking. You're dealing with a limited fanbase as it is, and limiting matchmaking will make it worse. Look what happened to Gears of War 3's online when it came to people "with" and people "without".

[Destroyer]

If Jet Jaguar could fit in with G, so could ol' Ultraman.

[Svitska Donkun]

If Jet Jaguar could fit in with G, so could ol' Ultraman.

Ultraman exists in a universe EXTREMELY far removed from Godzilla. Gamera at least has many things in common in the franchise and can be penciled in, however Ultraman has a whole different tone and history and universe that would overshadow and contradict a lot of what the Godzilla franchise has to offer. Jet Jjaguar at least has a role and fits into the Godzilla universe. in fact, it could be said that Jet Jaguar is the reason we DON'T need Ultraman.

[Chris55]

You're dealing with a limited fanbase as it is

Wow, you have a tiny knowledge of Godzilla's fans.

[Svitska Donkun]

You're dealing with a limited fanbase as it is

Wow, you have a tiny knowledge of Godzilla's fans.

We have a small fanbase. This is generally accepted, and can be a supported claim. If we had a decently sized fandom, why are we so worried about raising 1,000,000 dollars? This forum itself is the central hub for the Godzilla fandom on the English-Speaking web, and there's what? 30-50 regular posters?

I mean shit, highest attendance for G-Fest is 1300. I was just at Monster-Mania, a mid-rate Horror Con that happens every few months, and it definitely outdid that attendance.

[Chris55]

You're dealing with a limited fanbase as it is

Wow, you have a tiny knowledge of Godzilla's fans.

We have a small fanbase.

No we don't. Just because they don't post on boards doesn't mean they aren't there. For example, do you honestly think Legendary/Warner Bros would dump millions into a franchise with a small fanbase?

When things get settled with the licensing and the Kickstarter campaign goes up, the world will spread to games sites, film sites etc.

[Svitska Donkun]

No we don't. Just because they don't post on boards doesn't mean they aren't there. For example, do you honestly think Legendary/Warner Bros would dump millions into a franchise with a small fanbase?

Uhm...more like Godzilla simply has brand name recognition, and apparently they aren't even fully committed to the project as its still in development hell. You also realize that Hollywood has adapted projects with equally or lesser interest based solely off brand recognition. Smurfs, Thing, 21 Jump Street, even Tron to an extent. So that argument is moot. Hollywood will adapt anything that is recognizable, and recognizable does not mean it has many rabid fans. ow many articles involving the creators of the new Godzilla film talk about pleasing fans? I doubt the creators even know that much about the franchise, let alone that it even has a devoted fanbase, howeve rsmall it is. Godzilla is small fanbase, like it or not.

I mean, shit the fact that we NEED the fans to raise money for the game, rather than getting a legit development company to produce it, should say something about how executives view the property's marketability.

[jdude1996]

OMG you are dumb svitska, I have never met one person who doesn't know Godzilla or one that doesn't like him, everyone I have met likes him to an extent but nonetheless still likes him. Hell Godzilla even appeared as one of the units we had to learn about in my FRENCH class in my school. Also like they said NUMEROUS times, this is a game being made for fans and developers would just rush it and mess it up. Argument is now done.

[Chris55]

No we don't. Just because they don't post on boards doesn't mean they aren't there. For example, do you honestly think Legendary/Warner Bros would dump millions into a franchise with a small fanbase?

Uhm...more like Godzilla simply has brand name recognition, and apparently they aren't even fully committed to the project as its still in development hell. You also realize that Hollywood has adapted projects with equally or lesser interest based solely off brand recognition. Smurfs, Thing, 21 Jump Street, even Tron to an extent. So that argument is moot. Hollywood will adapt anything that is recognizable, and recognizable does not mean it has many rabid fans. ow many articles involving the creators of the new Godzilla film talk about pleasing fans? I doubt the creators even know that much about the franchise, let alone that it even has a devoted fanbase, howeve rsmall it is. Godzilla is small fanbase, like it or not.

I mean, shit the fact that we NEED the fans to raise money for the game, rather than getting a legit development company to produce it, should say something about how executives view the property's marketability.

You're worry about nothing. It'll be fine

[jdude1996]

why are you even here svitska if all your gonna do is put the game down

[Svitska Donkun]

OMG you are dumb svitska, I have never met one person who doesn't know Godzilla or one that doesn't like him, everyone I have met likes him to an extent but nonetheless still likes him. Hell Godzilla even appeared as one of the units we had to learn about in my FRENCH class in my school. Argument is now done.

You are so correct. I submit to your all knowing wisdom on the subject. How could I ever have thought otherwise? I completely forgot that my French class had an entire unit on Godzilla too! How silly of me. My driving course had one too! And my Forensics class. How have I been so blind? I really do apologize. You are the superior one in this confrontation of intellects.

why are you even here svitska if all your gonna do is put the game down

He mad.

[hammysammy59]

A modular, mix and match game sounds awesome and makes the game incredibly customizable for all tastes. Don't think certain monsters fit with Godzilla? Don't worry, you can switch them on and off. You don't even have to pay for them, they're an optional purchase/download. Only feel like fighting X type of monsters tonight? Boom, there's a match-making option for that. Hell, say Toho won't cough up the rights for their monsters just yet, but we've raised the money for the game anyway. We're not stuck, we can go forward with original monsters/Gamera monsters/Ultraman monsters/random licensed monsters and come back to Toho monsters later.