Spacegodzilla vs Destoroyah

[GojiFan]

Why do some think Destroyer was beating Godzilla one sidedly in their fight it was pretty even till Godzilla powered up again.

Because even with the whole Toho screw up involving the floral pattern he was whooping on Godzilla for the most part. It wasn't until Godzilla reached 1190+ that he gained the upper hand in that fight.

[RedZillaKing]

^No he wasn't. Hell Goji even matched his strength a few times despite crabby's superior size. And all Dessy's offensive tactics just served to anger Godzilla even further. Nothing he did save the Laser Horn even hurt Goji.

I could see SG losing control in panic/anger and unleashing a more powerful ray. Anyways, SpaceGodzilla renders Godzilla helpless with Corona Beams in the first encounter on Birth Island. Godzilla was down, plain and simple. If you actually watch the scene, the amount of times Goji is hit by the beams is relatively few. SG clearly hit around the two monsters, attempting to separate them. The fact that he hits all around LG earlier shows that he has absolute control over the cbs.

I'm glad I only do these things casually now.

[Gyaos]

Except the whole 'unleashed a more powerful ray" fiasco is pure conjecture. There is NO evidence in the film that suggest this. MOGUERA's arm being severed was simply due to being hit in an unprotected area of the body as Gojifan and I indicated in our posts.

[RedZillaKing]

Even the joints would be havily armored on a super robot like Moguera. I could say calling it a weak poin is purely conjecture as well.

[GojiFan]

^No he wasn't. Hell Goji even matched his strength a few times despite crabby's superior size. And all Dessy's offensive tactics just served to anger Godzilla even further. Nothing he did save the Laser Horn even hurt Goji.

I have proven this idea of yours wrong so many times it is starting to get redundant. The first time they bumped chests Destroyah clearly knocked Godzilla off his feet and proceeded to drag him around. The second time they got into again in close range Godzilla had to use his beam several times on an open floral pattern (which shouldn't have been opened in the first place since the scene that involved it was deleted) to gain the advantage. Meltdown Godzilla never once matched Destroyah in strength.

As for your other point, it makes no sense. You say the corona beam was bringing Godzilla to the brink of death, yet he took them like a champ a majority of the movie. Destroyah was in clear control of the fight and floored Godzilla with one shot of the OD ray, yet his attacks were useless? I think you are showing a clear bias in favor of Space Godzilla here RZK.

I could see SG losing control in panic/anger and unleashing a more powerful ray. Anyways, SpaceGodzilla renders Godzilla helpless with Corona Beams in the first encounter on Birth Island. Godzilla was down, plain and simple. If you actually watch the scene, the amount of times Goji is hit by the beams is relatively few.

Trust me, I watched the scene.

I already discussed this much earlier in my longer post. The first time Godzilla got knocked down was from two corona beams and his own beam being reflected back at him. It didn't even temporarily disorient him as he was still capable of shooting back as he was falling. He also got right back up almost immediately. The second time he fell was because of the shoulder wound, as I mentioned. The left shoulder took five direct hits to the same spot for that to happen.

The last time SG knocked Godzilla down it took 6 corona beams and the energy slaps. The remainder of the movie the corona beam barrages all failed at putting Godzilla down on the ground or even making him stumble.

Destroyah's beam floored Godzilla with one shot and disoriented him enough where he couldn't get up nor attack back.

[Gyaos]

Even the joints would be havily armored on a super robot like Moguera. I could say calling it a weak poin is purely conjecture as well.

Its not conjecture when theres evidence directly supporting it in the film. If anything, your entire statement is conjecture as well since theres no evidence to support he joints are armored. Atleast mine has on-screen proof to back it up. Rubbery materiel isnt going to be as strong as the solid metal plates that MOGUERA is made of, not to mention that if you compair getting your arm chopped off at the elbow compaired to getting it chopped off at the middle, the axe is going to go through the elbow MUCH easier than the middle of the bone.

Joints are a weak point on any part of the body.

[RedZillaKing]

I have proven this idea of yours wrong so many times it is starting to get redundant.

Was this really necessary? Come on GF, no reason to get uppity.

The first time they bumped chests Destroyah clearly knocked Godzilla off his feet and proceeded to drag him around.

Funny... this is what I was referring to. The first time they bump chests Goji is clearly seen knocking Dessy back on his heels. And then it's a back and forth until Dessy knocks him down. It wasn't one sided at all.

The second time they got into again in close range Godzilla had to use his beam several times on an open floral pattern (which shouldn't have been opened in the first place since the scene that involved it was deleted) to gain the advantage. Meltdown Godzilla never once matched Destroyah in strength.

Actually he had a very small victory at the beginning of the first chest bump. Dessy was knocked back. Not far, but he was.

As for your other point, it makes no sense. You say the corona beam was bringing Godzilla to the brink of death, yet he took them like a champ a majority of the movie. Destroyah was in clear control of the fight and floored Godzilla with one shot of the OD ray, yet his attacks were useless? I think you are showing a clear bias in favor of Space Godzilla here RZK.

Never said brink of death. However, SG could've chosen to kill Godzilla when he was flailing and helpless on Birth Island. Dessy's attacks didn't put Goji down for the count. Goji might've taken a lot of damage from him, but his life was only endangered by the LH. On the other hand, the Corona beam had an obvious, very painful effect on Godzilla and left him helpless. I'm not really sure what doesn't make sense here, but there you go again. I was thinking you might be biased as well, yet I chose not to use that to undermine your arguments. Not necessary. Can we get past the petty garbage and debate here?

I already discussed this much earlier in my longer post. The first time Godzilla got knocked down was from two corona beams and his own beam being reflected back at him. It didn't even temporarily disorient him as he was still capable of shooting back as he was falling. He also got right back up almost immediately. The second time he fell was because of the shoulder wound, as I mentioned. The left shoulder took five direct hits to the same spot for that to happen.

The first time his own beam didn't even hurt him. The two Corona beams did disorient him... Enough for him to fall over. His quick recovery was just proof of what we already know. Godzilla is awesome. As for the second time it was 3 direct hits. However, some amount of healing no doubt happened between beam 1 and 2 as they were something like 5 seconds apart. We know Goji heals friggin' fast. The killer was the 2 successive hits afterward. And I don't see how this makes the beam weak in any way... Goji took worse shoulder damage from Biollante and didn't reel in agony and flail about. There's obviously more to it than just a flesh would.

The last time SG knocked Godzilla down it took 6 corona beams and the energy slaps. The remainder of the movie the corona beam barrages all failed at putting Godzilla down on the ground or even making him stumble.

That doesn't make it okay to ignore their first encounter. Besides, SG was using a great deal of energy to combat Moguera as well.

Destroyah's beam floored Godzilla with one shot and disoriented him enough where he couldn't get up nor attack back.

Godzilla was in incredible pain already. The MO must've hurt like a bitch on top of that. Hell, there was obviously no serious damage and Goji just laid there. Again, there must've been more to it. I personally attribute it to the fact that his body was burning up from the inside out.

@Gyaos: Rubber???

[GojiFan]

Was this really necessary? Come on GF, no reason to get uppity.

I'm not really being uppity when it is the truth. Every time you bring this up I have to explain how it simply isn't true.

Funny... this is what I was referring to. The first time they bump chests Goji is clearly seen knocking Dessy back on his heels. And then it's a back and forth until Dessy knocks him down. It wasn't one sided at all.

So he bumped into Destroyah and made him move a little bit. According to you, this shows an "even match in strength" even though Destroyah then retaliated by knocking Godzilla on his ass and into a building. One shows a very brief advantage in strength, the other shows a clear concise advantage in strength. Godzilla was not evenly matched in physical strength with Destroyah.

Actually he had a very small victory at the beginning of the first chest bump. Dessy was knocked back. Not far, but he was.

That is like saying landing a punch on Anderson Silva means you had a brief victory. If Anderson Silva proceeds to beat you down, that tiny moment of pride doesn't matter at all. Godzilla clearly was outmatched in that instance and there is no way to argue it.

Never said brink of death. However, SG could've chosen to kill Godzilla when he was flailing and helpless on Birth Island. Dessy's attacks didn't put Goji down for the count. Goji might've taken a lot of damage from him, but his life was only endangered by the LH. On the other hand, the Corona beam had an obvious, very painful effect on Godzilla and left him helpless. I'm not really sure what doesn't make sense here, but there you go again. I was thinking you might be biased as well, yet I chose not to use that to undermine your arguments. Not necessary. Can we get past the petty garbage and debate here?

Did you ever think he flew away because he didn't have the energy to beat Godzilla at the time? That would explain why he flew off into the distance and set up a crystal fortress. As for the whole "down for the count" part, on Birth Island Godzilla was still clearly moving after he had fallen down the second time.... which is the same state he was in after Destroyah floored him with the OD ray. The corona ray left him helpless all of one entire time the entire movie. You are favoring one instance over the dozens of other instances that showed to have no more effect on Godzilla than the average Heisei beam. There was a point when SG was flying around shooting Godzilla with corona beams and Godzilla just stood there and took them. He wasn't reeling in pain as you describe him to be.

I'm not really biased at all here. I just watched the movies and judge it how I see it. You are favoring one instance over dozens of others later in the movie showing the exact opposite of what you said. You basically are doing the same thing with the whole "evenly matched in strength" argument. One small moment of power does not change the overall level of power. The corona beam leaving Godzilla stunned one time does not suddenly erase the dozens of other beams that SG shot at Godzilla that did no such thing.

The first time his own beam didn't even hurt him. The two Corona beams did disorient him... Enough for him to fall over. His quick recovery was just proof of what we already know. Godzilla is awesome. As for the second time it was 3 direct hits. However, some amount of healing no doubt happened between beam 1 and 2 as they were something like 5 seconds apart. We know Goji heals friggin' fast. The killer was the 2 successive hits afterward. And I don't see how this makes the beam weak in any way... Goji took worse shoulder damage from Biollante and didn't reel in agony and flail about. There's obviously more to it than just a flesh would.

What is your version of hurt? Not reacting at all like Godzilla often did against the corona beam? It caused an explosion about the same size or slightly bigger than the corona beam that was then launched at him. In Godzilla vs Biollante, his own beam was used to make him retreat into the sea. Are you under the impression that his own beam can't physically harm him?

And while they disoriented him enough to fall over, Godzilla was already recovered midfall as he shot SG with his beam. After hitting the ground, he got right back up.

That doesn't make it okay to ignore their first encounter. Besides, SG was using a great deal of energy to combat Moguera as well.

That is why he had a giant fortress feeding him energy. But that is pretty much irrelevant, as even when Godzilla first started fighting him there the corona beams did not have near the effect on him as they did on Birth Island. You are ignoring the entire final fight in favor of a brief fight in the beginning of the movie.

Godzilla was in incredible pain already. The MO must've hurt like a bitch on top of that. Hell, there was obviously no serious damage and Goji just laid there. Again, there must've been more to it. I personally attribute it to the fact that his body was burning up from the inside out.

.... There was no serious damage from nearly every single corona ray. Seriously, you are changing your argument from one point to the next.

[miguelnuva]

Why do some think Destroyer was beating Godzilla one sidedly in their fight it was pretty even till Godzilla powered up again.

...Nobody said that..

Maybe no one in this topic but it's been stated several times. PopinPicks you just said Destroyer would have beat Godzilla if he didn't start meltdown.

[Tomzilla]

Your most powerful ray can blow chunks out of the kaiju that is killing you but you never use it?

It's really not that much different than Destoroyah rarely using his Horn Katana.

There is a pretty decent chance that quick, consecutive attacks to the same spot can overpower his regen and produce that effect.

Yes, there's a decent chance Godzilla's regeneration can be overpowered; however, you have no evidence backing this up. If Godzilla's regeneration is being overpowered, we'd actually see that happening. We don't. All we see is a single Corona Beam grazing his shoulder. No damage. Less than a second later, a more powerful Corona Beam lances into his shoulder, and rips it apart. Why? Because it packed a little bit more energy this time around.

Throughout the movie, we see SpaceGodzilla striking Godzilla and MOGUERA in the same place multiple times without damaging them. So your theory, while still plausible, isn't as sound as you think it is.

We've seen kaiju put more energy into their energy attacks all the time. Destoroyah didn't always floor Godzilla with his Oxygen Destroyer Ray. When he did, it's because he put more juice into it; when he didn't, it's because he withheld some energy.

What you see there on the right is the entire cone-shaped portion of the arm go flying off. If the corona beam had hit the cone part of the arm, the SG missile would have exploded and blew the cone to pieces. Which means that the beam hit the arm behind the cone.

In the film, we clearly see the Corona Beam striking MOGUERA's cone-shaped hand. After hitting it, we see MOGUERA's arm getting blasted off. Why did the SGM not explode? Maybe because it was designed not to explode prematurely? Afterwards, we see SpaceGodzilla's Corona Beam striking MOGUERA's cone and not a second later we see his arm come ripping off.

That's what happened in the scene.

That portion isn't necessarily unarmored, but it is a joint and also the thinnest part of MOGUERA. By those two properties, it would be pretty obvious for it to lack the most armor compared to other areas of MOGUERA. You can clearly see in the picture just posted before me that it is mostly wiring and little to no armor.

I don't see how it being MOGUERA's thinnest part makes the armor any less thick or less durable than everywhere else. I also don't see how blasting it off isn't an impressive feat.

What makes you think it is? How is it that every time MOGUERA is hit hes fine yet when that particular spot is hit, the arm comes clean off? The Corona ray hitting a "soft spot" sounds more plausable than Spacegodzilla making his Corona ray stronger especially since he was rapidly losing power.

I'm not ruling both theories out. Both are plausible and make sense. However, I don't understand why you think it's unarmored. I think it's armored because MOGUERA is a giant, fighting machine designed to fight monsters. Having incredibly weak joints would make it a very useless robot. It's armored because SpaceGodzilla did hit MOGUERA's arm in previous encounters, and the arm wasn't ripped off. SpaceGodzilla put more energy into this Corona Beam because his shoulder crystal had just been destroyed, which pissed him off, and he wanted retribution regardless of the consequences.

I don't see why it's so difficult to believe kaiju like SpaceGodzilla can make their energy beams stronger. Especially since many kaiju have done exactly that. They can't always whip out these stronger than average beams because it'd exhaust their energy supply. So they have to pick and choose when the time is right.

[GojiFan]

It's really not that much different than Destoroyah rarely using his Horn Katana.

Except it isn't a theory whether or not the Horn Katana even exists.

Yes, there's a decent chance Godzilla's regeneration can be overpowered; however, you have no evidence backing this up. If Godzilla's regeneration is being overpowered, we'd actually see that happening. We don't. All we see is a single Corona Beam grazing his shoulder. No damage. Less than a second later, a more powerful Corona Beam lances into his shoulder, and rips it apart. Why? Because it packed a little bit more energy this time around.

And you have no evidence backing up a supposed stronger corona beam. The color, size, shape, charge time, etc did not change in the slightest.

Throughout the movie, we see SpaceGodzilla striking Godzilla and MOGUERA in the same place multiple times without damaging them. So your theory, while still plausible, isn't as sound as you think it is.

Which is why I referred to it as a freak instance earlier in this thread, because the corona beam never came close to dealing that much damage again to Godzilla.

We've seen kaiju put more energy into their energy attacks all the time. Destoroyah didn't always floor Godzilla with his Oxygen Destroyer Ray. When he did, it's because he put more juice into it; when he didn't, it's because he withheld some energy.

The beam that floored Godzilla hit him for a longer period of time than pretty much every other beam Destroyah used on Godzilla.

In the film, we clearly see the Corona Beam striking MOGUERA's cone-shaped hand. After hitting it, we see MOGUERA's arm getting blasted off. Why did the SGM not explode? Maybe because it was designed not to explode prematurely? Afterwards, we see SpaceGodzilla's Corona Beam striking MOGUERA's cone and not a second later we see his arm come ripping off.

Missiles do have to be armed, but that does not prevent the explosives within from going off if the missile itself is hit before firing. The fuzes do nothing more than prevent the operator from accidentally firing off a missile that would cause severe collateral damage.

Besides, the movie clearly shows SG rotating the corona beam around the arm:

Here we see the corona beam come in from the right side, bypassing the cone all together.

Now here it starts rotating. It changes it's trajectory and goes over the open portion of the cone.

I don't see how it being MOGUERA's thinnest part makes the armor any less thick or less durable than everywhere else. I also don't see how blasting it off isn't an impressive feat.

The thinnest part would automatically put it in the discussion for the area with the least armor. Being a joint, there is more mechanical systems and wiring, which also decreases the amount of armor. Those are pretty common facts in both mechanical and biological structures.

SpaceGodzilla put more energy into this Corona Beam because his shoulder crystal had just been destroyed, which pissed him off, and he wanted retribution regardless of the consequences.

He would have used it after the tower was destroyed if that was the case, but he didn't.

I don't see why it's so difficult to believe kaiju like SpaceGodzilla can make their energy beams stronger. Especially since many kaiju have done exactly that. They can't always whip out these stronger than average beams because it'd exhaust their energy supply. So they have to pick and choose when the time is right.

You know why I don't believe you? Because SG had more energy when he fought Godzilla the second time and we never see a beam of that strength used against him again.

[PopInPicsPresents]

Why do some think Destroyer was beating Godzilla one sidedly in their fight it was pretty even till Godzilla powered up again.

...Nobody said that..

Maybe no one in this topic but it's been stated several times. PopinPicks you just said Destroyer would have beat Godzilla if he didn't start meltdown.

I never said it was a one sided battle though

[Kaiju-King42]

...Nobody said that..

Maybe no one in this topic but it's been stated several times. PopinPicks you just said Destroyer would have beat Godzilla if he didn't start meltdown.

I never said it was a one sided battle though

That wasn't a one sided battle, because at least Burnng Godzilla is able to hurt Destoroyah. No, THIS is the one sided battle. Sure, thanks to his regeneration, it would be long, but Spqcegodzilla simply does not have the weapons to bring down Destoroyah.

[RedZillaKing]

I'm actually a bit ashamed of myself here. I took a lot of things others were saying on faith which were just plain bullshit. Thank God for condescension for it often drives others. Anyways, I've rewatched both films and some interesting things have come to light. Anyways ill post my findings later and I just ask that people keep an open mind.

Catch you later(when I get to an actual computer that is).

[PopInPicsPresents]

I'm actually a bit ashamed of myself here. I took a lot of things others were saying on faith which were just plain bullshit. Thank God for condescension for it often drives others. Anyways, I've rewatched both films and some interesting things have come to light. Anyways ill post my findings later and I just ask that people keep an open mind.

Catch you later(when I get to an actual computer that is).

THIS ^^

It would help out a lot if people watched the battle a kaiju before posting things that said kaiju did. I made the mistake that Spacegodzilla fired 3 Corona Rays at the Fukuoka Tower, he only fired one. Just take that into consideration.

[miguelnuva]

...Nobody said that..[/quote]

Maybe no one in this topic but it's been stated several times. PopinPicks you just said Destroyer would have beat Godzilla if he didn't start meltdown.[/quote]

I never said it was a one sided battle though [/quote]

I know you never said it was one sided their are others on the board that said it was one sided.

[Tomzilla]

Except it isn't a theory whether or not the Horn Katana even exists.

Quit backpedaling.

You said: "Your most powerful ray can blow chunks out of the kaiju that is killing you but you never use it?"

Yes, SpaceGodzilla's most powerful ray can and has done that. 'Why doesn't he use it all the time then?' is what you were getting at. The same can be said about why Destoroyah neglected to use his Horn Katana all the time.

There are many reasons. Negligence, overconfidence, necessity, energy dependence, etc... These kaiju, while smart as far as kaiju go, aren't smart by our standards. Why they did or didn't do this is irrelevant when it comes down to whether or not they can.

And you have no evidence backing up a supposed stronger corona beam. The color, size, shape, charge time, etc did not change in the slightest.

Once again you backpedal. Newsflash, poking holes in my theory doesn't make you right. It's safe to say your theory has been squashed since you can't provide evidence.

My theory, on the other hand, is loaded with evidence.

Examples-

1) SpaceGodzilla's Corona Beam struck Godzilla's shoulder. This blast was so much stronger than the other Corona Beams because it not only wounded Godzilla, it floored him and kept him immobile for a few minutes.

2) 1:12:34 into the movie, SpaceGodzilla's Corona Beam hit MOGUERA, and floored the 160,000-ton robot. MOGUERA didn't move for hours, since he was brought down when the skies were blue, and didn't retreat 'til it was well after dark. Last time I checked, the Corona Beam didn't always do this, which means this Corona Beam was packing more energy.

3) 1:15:27 into the movie, SpaceGodzilla's Corona Beam brings Godzilla down. Godzilla stays down long enough for SpaceGodzilla to lift him up and throw him with his Gravity Tornado. Either Godzilla remained powerless during this time because the Corona Beam incapacitated him or the Gravity Tornado had paralyzing effects. Opinions vary.

4) SpaceGodzilla's Corona Beam strikes MOGUERA's cone-shaped hand so hard, it tears the arm completely off. I'll go into more detail about this one in a moment.

Anyway, it's common sense. SpaceGodzilla's Corona Beams usually didn't floor Godzilla or MOGUERA. You could argue it's because SpaceGodzilla's Corona Beams weren't quick bursts like the other instances. That's great, it only proves my point because... MORE ENERGY WAS BEING USED.

Which is why I referred to it as a freak instance earlier in this thread, because the corona beam never came close to dealing that much damage again to Godzilla.

I guess that makes Destoroyah's Horn Katana a freak instance too, because it never was used again and the damage it inflicted on Godzilla varied even in the span of two swipes.

Besides, the movie clearly shows SG rotating the corona beam around the arm:

Here we see the corona beam come in from the right side, bypassing the cone all together.

Now here it starts rotating. It changes it's trajectory and goes over the open portion of the cone.

Time to debunk this.



^ Here we see SpaceGodzilla firing his 'Hyper Corona Beam'. Notice how his horn is actually crackling with energy? If I'm not mistaken, that's the first time it's ever looked like that. It looks like that because it's funneling more energy into the Corona Beam.



^ Here we see the Corona Beam stopping right in front of MOGUERA's cone-shaped hand, which is opened.




^ Notice the sparks? They're shooting out of MOGUERA's cone-hand, not behind it. The top picture doesn't show the Corona Beam swerving behind the cone to strike the joint like GojiFan believes. No, the white-hot tip of the Corona Beam hasn't even 'regrown' yet. It regrows in time in the bottom picture, which we see once again striking the cone-hand dead on. Sparks ONCE AGAIN shoot out of the cone-hand, which should tell everyone here it was hit by the Corona Beam.

Just in case some of you aren't convinced...



^ Next we see a different angle taken immediately after. See how the sparks aren't shooting out of the joint which is, y'know, the spot that's about to be snapped off like a twig? Notice how they're nowhere near it?



^ Finally, we see the arm get blown off.

In this entire scene, MOGUERA's joint--the part that was ripped off--was never hit directly by the Corona Beam. What does this mean? It means the Corona Beam hit MOGUERA's hand so freakin' hard, it made his arm come flying off because it packed so much more force and energy than usual. This is why I called it the 'Hyper Corona Beam'.

You know why I don't believe you? Because SG had more energy when he fought Godzilla the second time and we never see a beam of that strength used against him again.

So then by your logic, since we never saw Destoroyah's Oxygen Destroyer Beam floor Godzilla again, since it only happened once, we should assume it'd never happen more than once in this match up. Going once step further, since Destoroyah only used his Horn Katana twice, we should assume he'd never bother to use it again, especially if it didn't inflict any fatal injuries on SpaceGodzilla.

That logic sucks.

[Eunectes]

Tomzilla won this thread.

SpaceGodzilla would win but Destroyah would pack a really hard fight.

[RedZillaKing]

Yeah, I agree. I made extensive notes as I rewatched both films today, but a few of the things Tom said took the wind outta my sails.

[Living Corpse]

Just wanna know what doe light up at the different charge levels. Obviously the lowest one just has his spines light up and maybe his shoulder crystals.