IDW's Godzilla Kingdom of Monsters General Discussion

[Captain Aktion]

^See? Maturity.

Okay Donkun, I'm not going to do this little song and dance with you again. You've failed to grasp any of the obvious points I've tried in vain to make, while listening to your own. If everything I say will fall on your deaf ears, why should I bother listening to you? Two-way streets and all of that. So, adieu, friend-o.

See? Maturity.

[Svitska Donkun]

^See? Maturity.

Okay Donkun, I'm not going to do this little song and dance with you again. You've failed to grasp any of the obvious points I've tried in vain to make, while listening to your own. If everything I say will fall on your deaf ears, why should I bother listening to you? Two-way streets and all of that. So, adieu, friend-o.

See? Maturity.

You have a very loose grasp on the concept of maturity and its role in the universe, and what it actually is. So loose I'd say naive.You won' do the "song and dance" again not because of some self-proclaimed sense of maturity. It's because you know you're talking out of your ass, and don't have the willpower or smarts to argue anything. Your "obvious points" are null and void as they can and HAVE been rebutted completely before. There's a difference between Maturity and Cowardice. You're trying to look one way, while acting another. Its okay to like something that is garbage, but don't try to push on others that its good. It makes you look, well, how you look.

[KaijuX]

^See? Maturity.

Okay Donkun, I'm not going to do this little song and dance with you again. You've failed to grasp any of the obvious points I've tried in vain to make, while listening to your own. If everything I say will fall on your deaf ears, why should I bother listening to you? Two-way streets and all of that. So, adieu, friend-o.

See? Maturity.

See? Immaturity.

You aren't ready to handle the truth CA. It's clear that your words don't fall on deaf ears; it's mute words falling on ears. Tell me, CA, (in an intelligent manner) why do you love KOM so much? Love it to the point of making it worth defending? I know I said I like KOM, but if my fellows friends hate it, then so be it. I've grown out of that immature state of mind and argue back. Your little dream opinion can stay to yourself, and shouldn't go beyond to the point that you actually try and make it a reality. Get real. And I'm not a coward; I'm just doing the right thing and only discuss KOM with the peeps who are interested. Not most of the people who hate it. What results from that? Arguments. Childish thoughts from the person who loves the series. You see that I haven't been bashing the living heck out of the people that have negative remarks of the series --whether it would be writer or artist. I've been wise and keeping out and only replying those who are cool with it. It's either you get off this thread, because clearly no one is taking an interest on your repetitive blabber, or you do what I do. Only reply with the people who are cool with the series and don't get into pointless arguments with people who know what their talking about. You only have one reason to say why you love KOM. They have a million reasons to hate KOM. Who's going to win? The one or the million? It's pretty obvious. And don't give me the Hollywood "one destroys all" bulls**t either. That's a plot device. This is reality.

I told you the first time. Reflect with yourself. Because it's clear your were raised being told things you wanted to hear and was persuaded by lies. Now it's not easy, don't get me wrong. But just ask yourself the questioned I mentioned earlier: why do you love KOM so much? I'm sure we ALL want to know what's going through your head right now.

[SuperSaiyan4Godzilla]

To get some insight on the "tracing" issue within the IDW comics, I consulted Bob Eggleton himself and tried to get an inside perspective on this.

Here's what he said back:

Basically, I use references AS TOHO ASKS PEOPLE TO DO. Just to get it right. Also, IDW has very little time to turn things around. Most of the covers are done in a day, by people. There is just no time because Toho has to approve of every single thing within the work.

Facebook allows for awesomely fast responses.

[KaijuX]

Didn't even know that Bob had a FB... Man, a cover in a day... Wow. Did not know that.

[SuperSaiyan4Godzilla]

Didn't even know that Bob had a FB... Man, a cover in a day... Wow. Did not know that.

He later continued to say that the difference between a professional artist and an amateur is the ability to get things done by the deadline. With any means possible. You work for a business and you need to get your work done on time and efficiently.

And IDW pays around $300 for a cover....so make what you will with that.

[KaijuX]

He later continued to say that the difference between a professional artist and an amateur is the ability to get things done by the deadline. With any means possible. You work for a business and you need to get your work done on time and efficiently.

And IDW pays around $300 for a cover....so make what you will with that.

Huh, wow... That is interesting.

Getting this, you guys?

[Eunectes]

I enjoyed KOM.

Time for Godzilla!!!

[Primevalgodzilla V2]

Enjoy that castle you live in?

Gee, someone's getting rattled. Resorting to pot shots already?

I could, if I wanted, point out times where Mr. Eggleton has used obvious photo reference, but what's the point?

Many artists use photo reference. But there's a difference between using phtoto reference to draw a certain design and flat-out tracing.

I could point out, that yes, this is a swipe on the cover, but why? I already did.

My point.

Here's what I was doing: Trying to offer an explanation as to why you're seeing this on not only a Godzilla cover, but on covers spanning the entire comics world, not to mention the interiors. You are welcome to disagree with the use of it and I too feel it's a crutch when used in the wrong way, but I don't understand at all why you think I was defending it. Explanation of a situation and defense of said situation are different things. So...

Well, my point is that I hate traced covers, as I believe artists should use original art and not take others and take claim over it as their own. I don't even kow why your replied to my oringinal post, sva efor to put forth the claim that 'gee, you guys are never satisfied at a G comics' when I merely posted dissatisfaction over a cover. You don't need to jump to defend the comics all the time. Its seriosuly annoying.

You know what's really getting old and quite frankly insulting? The fact that everyone cherry picks what I have to say for their own purposes, while ignoring when I say things like, "this isn't what I would prefer, but there's more than you're seeing". I don't see how that is expecting you to be satisfied when I express my own dissatisfaction in my. Own. Post.

Your original post (and yes, I quoted the ENTIRETY of it, and I don't see anything ackknowledging it is copied, implications you are dissatyisfied, only silly sarcasm over how I shouldn't think traced art is shit, and how I will 'get into a tizzy if' the situation were otherwise)

But if Godzilla isn't as photo/suit/film-accurate as humanly possible then won't everybody get up in a tizzy about that?

"Boo-hoo, his face looks a little different on this page. This art is Sh**!"

There are apparently no winners when it comes to a Godzilla comic, me am starting to thinks.

And then, the's the last sentence, which is essentially saying 'you guys will never be satisfied, methinks'. No 'yeah, I do agree that tracing was lazy, and I hoped for better, but it is the state of the comic world...' or 'this isn't what I prefer...' for that matter. Only snideness and sarcasm over my original post which was not intended to insult anybody. Now would you stop claiming to say things you never even mentioned, then descend into a pity party about how everyone

All I've tried to do is understand what everyone's big beef is with the comic, and the majority of it is simply that it isn't pleasing the fanbase, correct?

And all my post stated was that I didn't like 1 cover. And previously I have constantly praised the artwork and covers for this series. So I don't see your point apart from trying to spark a debate with everyone. You could have just said 'Traced covers aren't desirable but sometimes such is the case in modern comics' instead of-

But if Godzilla isn't as photo/suit/film-accurate as humanly possible then won't everybody get up in a tizzy about that?

"Boo-hoo, his face looks a little different on this page. This art is Sh**!"

There are apparently no winners when it comes to a Godzilla comic, me am starting to thinks.[/

which you can;t blame me for reacting angrily to/

So what will please the fanbase is my question, and short of having an improbable wish-list of perfection, I am rapidly reaching the conclusion, that yes, there is no way to please all of the fans.

See what I mean?

I show dissatisfaction at a traced cover, and this is your conclusion? Not only that, but you point your middle finger at the whole fandom/ Yeah, its no wonder why Donkun and RZK are annoyed by you. Because you can turn dissatisfaction over the cover into me having an 'improbable wish list of perfection' and then when I understandably react unahppily to such a claim I am 'living in a castle' and 'cherry-[icking' at your posts.

Who's being unreasonable now?

[Captain Aktion]

WOW! I responded to the issue of tracing in almost the same, exact way as the great Bob Eggleton. I guess I really have been talking out of my ass and not making any valid points at all, right? Haha, right.

I'm not going to go into how you guys are presenting yourselves, as you've totally got that hole under control. I will say I've never said anybody's opinion is invalid since it doesn't line up with mine, but that's apparently the height of mature debate for you guys, how can I argue it?

I can't. There's several people here who just cannot seem to accept that not everyone feels the same way they do, so oh well. I obviously can't reason with anyone without getting tacky, say-nothing comments in return that simply seem to reek of fanboy armpit. Again, oh well.

I guess it makes me a coward to admit that I can't even get you to listen, let alone change your minds.

Oh well. I guess I have to bear that scarlet letter here on the forums, which, in my opinion, is better than wearing the arrogant prick tag.

[GreenAiden555]

I guess I have to bear that scarlet letter here on the forums

That book sucked.

Was KoM great? No, but it was a nice experience for me. It really got my foot in the door for collecting, and I DID enjoy the interior artwork all the way through. Would Matt or Jeff or Bob or Art or Steve or Joe (see how I'm listing random names at this point?) been better? Sure, why not, but I did enjoy the art as is. To me, it did give me something more to look at than a badass picture of Godzilla. If you really think about it, they're all mutant monsters. They way they look from 5 and after is distorted, while I think the humans don't look half bad. I believe this gave the feel of the monsters more to them. The art portrays them as they are; distorted monsters. I liked that art choice myself.

The covers? Eh, yeah, the tracing did bother me a bit, considering I have heard conflicting stories or assumptions to be made. One of the things with G&G #4 was Gigan on the cover, and I remember someone saying they made the covers MONTHS in advance (I think it was Mr. Zornow making the comment in regards to issue #6 of KoM and one of the artists working on G&G), so the artist didn't know what was going on in the story. However, new evidence suggests they're made in a day, so I can't really blame them for a cover. Hell, I said it three times today, and I'll say it again; I spent damn near $350 on all 3 series and I don't care too much that tracing happened, or that it does in the future. The first revealed cover of GODZILLA looks great, and I'm happy with it.

I hear you, Capn'n. I enjoyed the art, the story was decent at best and picked up after #8, and it was a good ride for myself the past year or so. I cannot WAIT for 2012

[gatorzilla]

Hey you guys is this really all necessary?

Some like this stuff and some don't. Is it really that big of a deal to make it into a multiple page verbal war?

I like the series but everyone needs to cool it and just look forward to whats in store for the future

[Captain Aktion]

^You probably said it all even better than I could. Agree all the way with everything you said. Bravo, good sir.

EDIT: Double agree with Gatorzilla.

And, yeah, The Scarlet Letter did kinda suck (Opinion, take it easy guys ).

[Svitska Donkun]

I will say I've never said anybody's opinion is invalid since it doesn't line up with mine, but that's apparently the height of mature debate for you guys, how can I argue it?

What is wrong with you? Do you have selective hearing(or in this case, reading)? How do you not get what I'm saying? It's not that you're opinion is different its that you have no evidence, or anything really, to back it up. At ALL. When people rebuke what pitiful defenses you make, you ignore them! Your opinion is one of ignorance. It is unfounded. It is baseless. It is INVALID. Insignificant. Worth nothing because of that. It is a stupid opinion. There IS such a thing. And by continuing trying to convince people otherwise, you're coming off as stupid as well. We aren't making "say nothing comments", YOU are. YOU are being the unreasonable fanboy. Your sense of denial is almost hilarious.

[Captain Aktion]

^How do you not get what I've been saying???

Difference of opinion...I guess...

BIG EDIT: I guess then you are ignoring all of the people who CAN enjoy the comic.

I've never said I love the comic, so get off that nut, it's tired.

I've pointed out flaws, and you've ignored that. I've said I can enjoy it in as a simple pleasure. You've ignored that. You've only stuck to some asinine assumption that I'm a fanboy and that's the only reason I would ever defend it. You. Are. Simple.

If you can't read between lines, Donkun, then I don't know what to say. I've tried so, so hard to listen to you, but when all you present yourself as is the highest and mightiest king of F*** Mountain, then I'm sorry, you've lost any respect I could've had for you.

You tell me my opinions and everything that I say means nothing...WITHOUT ever providing any evidence that what you say has any more basis than my opinion. It's all opinion, and if you can't get that, then you're a lost cause. You're a fandom casualty.

Get over it. Move on with you're narrowly defined list of expectations that could never be achieved lest you mete them out, each and every one, your own self.

No, and I repeat, NO Godzilla film is a perfect little specimen of it's own, IF I discount the original.

No further product is ever going to be a perfect simulacrum of whatever it is that you have in your head as to what it is that you deserve out of your fervent love of the property. I'm sorry. Get over it.

If I find the series to be worth my money and time, then sorry, F-you buddy for trying to make me feel bad for it.

I try to listen to you to gauge and understand why someone would have such a fervent need to hate on it, and I get nothing but static. A whole lot of noise that means nothing. Which is fine, it's your opinion.

However, you want to call me stupid because I disagree with you? That I make points you ignore? Flat ignore? You say what I say means nothing, without actually saying why? What kind of argument is that?

Are you trying to make me understand you, or just venting your spleen?

[Svitska Donkun]

I've pointed out flaws, and you've ignored that. I've said I can enjoy it in as a simple pleasure. You've ignored that. You've only stuck to some asinine assumption that I'm a fanboy and that's the only reason I would ever defend it. You. Are. Simple.

You threw around the word "fanboy" before I did, so don't even get started. You're defense is what is retarded, not you enjoying it. You also don't know what the word "simple" means, as well as "Maturity". If you're going to insult someone, its best to use words you know the meaning of or know how to use.

If you can't read between lines, Donkun, then I don't know what to say. I've tried so, so hard to listen to you, but when all you present yourself as is the highest and mightiest king of F*** Mountain, then I'm sorry, you've lost any respect I could've had for you.

You haven't tried hard at all. You live in your naive little world away from reality that because you have an opinion that people should respect it. When you talk bullshit, you should expect people to call you out on it. The fact that you run around pretending you wear a little cloak that should defend you from nasty counter opinions is far more arrogant and cocky than what any of our behaviors. Its beyond hypocritical. You're the kind of person who will tell someone to go skreeonk themselves, but then whine and cry when the same thing is done to them because "it isn't fair". What's worse is you're a rat about it. Constantly revising what you've said and try to throw out an image you self impose on yourself which contradicts your actions. I actually don't think presenting myself as the "Highest and Mightiest King of the skreeonk Mountain" is such a bad thing. At least I know what I'm talking about(Most of the time). If I was the kind of person who wanted your respect. I'd slit my wrists. I'd probably have no self respect were that the case. I mean, seriously, what are you? Like, 14?

You tell me my opinions and everything that I say means nothing...WITHOUT ever providing any evidence that what you say has any more basis than my opinion. It's all opinion, and if you can't get that, then you're a lost cause. You're a fandom casualty.

The evidence is that when I say something is bad, I explain why, and in detail, citing specific examples and comparing them to things that do it much better. You do not. You throw a half-thought "defense", I, or someone else rebukes it completely, and you either ignore it or play the victim card. Like a rat.
Also, Fandom Casualty? The skreeonk does that mean? I'm a victim of my own fandom? Now I am an unfortunate victim of IDW's G:KOM, but that's not a fandom. A fandom is you know, a bunch of fans....so....I'm a fan that got skreeonk over by other fans...? Maybe Monster Master pissed me off, and you certainly...but I've never felt victimized because I can defend myself...So I guess this is another instance of you not knowing what words mean.

Get over it. Move on with you're narrowly defined list of expectations that could never be achieved lest you mete them out, each and every one, your own self.

You claim you do listen, but I guess you must be deaf. I've said before that I thought Godzilla Legend No. 1, and No. 3 were incredible. I was also a fan of Gangsters and Goliaths. I am not hard to please. I just know crap when I see it. My expectations are not big, that's why its so shocking to see KOM skreeonk up as royally as it does.

No, and I repeat, NO Godzilla film is a perfect little specimen of it's own, IF I discount the original.

Who said anything about perfection? No one did. This is irrelevant. We just want something good, not perfect. You apparently only see things they way you want to see them. "Well gee guys, I know everything about the comics pretty much suck, but not everything can be perfect, cut them some slack!" There's a difference between being able to look over flaws and having your intelligence and fanself insulted.

No further product is ever going to be a perfect simulacrum of whatever it is that you have in your head as to what it is that you deserve out of your fervent love of the property. I'm sorry. Get over it.

I've already rebuked this, but really, the audacity and ignorance here is mind boggling. I've said before what I do like. Not everything has to be PERFECT, it just has to be good. A Godzilla fan after perfection is a contradiction. Making allowances for something that is garbage because nothing "can be perfect" is one of the most idiotic things I've heard you say. "Oh, Cannibal Holocaust is completely offensive because they kill real animals onscreen in brutal ways, but its ok, nothing's perfect." You're the one with the narrow mind.

I try to listen to you to gauge and understand why someone would have such a fervent need to hate on it, and I get nothing but static. A whole lot of noise that means nothing. Which is fine, it's your opinion.

So you have a physical disability where contraion opinions come to you as static? Everyone else can understand me, more than one poster has a problem with you. Time to go look in the mirror when you cast aspersions on others for things you're guilty of.

However, you want to call me stupid because I disagree with you? That I make points you ignore? Flat ignore? You say what I say means nothing, without actually saying why? What kind of argument is that?

No, I call you skreeonk stupid because the reasons you disagree with me are stupid. Not because you disagree with me. Go ahead. Tell me right now in bullet form what's good about KOM and why, and I'll reuke every single one of them, as I've done before. I guess you may like the art, and there's no real counter argument to that, but if that's all you look for in a comic, then you're kind of tasteless and stupid. You might as well go read children's picture books.

Are you trying to make me understand you, or just venting your spleen?

You don't know what a spleen does. This sentence makes no sense.

[Captain Aktion]

^So you've said things and I've said things. What's your point? *rant rant*

What ever, I'm tired of the circle. I don't want to *rant rant* listen to someone who *rant rant* complains that someone else is doing exactly *rant rant* what the they themselves are doing *rant rant*.

This is stupid, stupid in the extreme. I'm so sorry to everyone else on this forum, 'cause we've taken up pages on this topic apparently exchanging nothing. You *rant rant* at me for all of the same, same, same things you yourself are using to cloak your silly hide in defense. *rant rant* And, I guess, I'm doing the same as you.

You've made me realize why I *rant rant* want to just end this, Donkun. *rant rant* I've realized, y'know, I'm not being any better than he is, *rant rant* so how about this?

I'm not going to ever say a positive thing about this comic again. How about that? Does that some how fix the issue? Does that put me on your side? Does that somehow validate you if I said, "F-it, you're totally right. How stupid have I been?" Is that the only way this will end for you?

If you can have a negative opinion, and voice it, no matter how asinine I think it is, why can I not voice my opposite opinion? Is that all you want? 'Cause you sure as Hell don't want to listen to anyone else.

I'm done engaging in this one-sided argument with you--once again.

Feel free to begin "quote picking" apart my post...

Now.

EDIT: Oh, and to that last part: http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/vent+spleen But you're so well read? Stuuuuuuuuupiddddddddd...

[MechaGamera]

Every thread ends up getting hijacked with this childish bickering. Can we just get back to the books.

[JessPrime]

Every thread ends up getting hijacked with this childish bickering. Can we just get back to the books.

Ditto on that. Seriously, if you guys absolutely must argue, cant you guys take it to PMs and not ruin threads?

[SuperSaiyan4Godzilla]

Atikon, it is now 10:51 AM, Tuesday, February 21st, 2012.

I do not want to see you post in this thread until 10:51 AM, Tuesday, February 28th, 2012.

If you do, you will receive a warning for each post. Do I make myself clear? You reaction and constant bickering has put this upon your head. There is your scarlet letter. I would say it's I for Immature, but then you'd go off...

Anyhow, when you return to this topic, you will behave in a calm, civil manner. Along with the rest of you. You guys hear me?

Now excuse, I'm going to eat my breakfast before class.