I Just decided that Godzilla 98 is Canon

[Goji]

The title to this topic is freakin' hilarious.

He shows up in Final Wars so how is that not a direct connection?

I guess I just always shrugged off the American Godzilla as not a REAL Godzilla movie and lumped it in with other action movies. I think from now on I'll add it to the other 28 films.

Just because he's in FINAL WARS doesn't mean that the '98 film is canon with that film.

Going by that logic, RODAN (1956) is canon with VS. MECHAGODZILLA ('93) just because Rodan is in it.

[Godz]

If you really want to tie it all together like that, the 2nd Showa Godzilla dies and is replaced by a fully grown Minya. Imagine that...Minya becomes the badass Heisei Godzilla.

Yet Godzillasaurus was deffently the Godzilla in the Heisei. I just like to imagine Godzilla & Minilla mysterious disapeared.

But is the Godzilla from 1985 and vs. Biollante the same one as vs King Ghidorah and onward?

[Living Corpse]

If you really want to tie it all together like that, the 2nd Showa Godzilla dies and is replaced by a fully grown Minya. Imagine that...Minya becomes the badass Heisei Godzilla.

Yet Godzillasaurus was deffently the Godzilla in the Heisei. I just like to imagine Godzilla & Minilla mysterious disapeared.

But is the Godzilla from 1985 and vs. Biollante the same one as vs King Ghidorah and onward?

I'm not even gonna try because it will take an hour to explain.

Here this should answer all you're Heisei timeline questions.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=479

[milo bloom]

I've always considered it a "Godzilla" film.

I've never really examined how the timelines work, so I'm not going to open that can of worms, but the appearance of the 'Zilla form factor and behavior in Final Wars solidified for me that Toho accepted the idea of that film being in the overall Godzilla "canon".

I have the DVD on my shelf between the Space-Godzilla/Destroyah double feature and Godzilla 2000.

[Destroyer]

Didn't GMK refer to this film in the beginning? I've never thought of this film as non-canon.

[Goji]

Well yeah, but GMK exists in it's own little universe, just like all of the Millennium films. You could argue that it's canon with GMK, but not much else.

The American film isn't canon with any of the Japanese Godzilla time lines other than possibly GMK's. The old Japanese man saying "Gojira" at the beginning of GINO doesn't really mean anything.

[Destroyer]

I honestly forgot that an old man shouted "Gojira" in the beginning of that film, haven't seen it in years. In that case then, it's linked to GMK perfectly.

[Legion1979]

I heard that the comment at the beginning of GMK was nothing more than a joke and wasn't meant to indicate that GINO was canon to anything.

[Living Corpse]

Having all of these movies into one timeline would be a total mess. Why can't people be happy with the timelines that we have?

No! People have to bitch or it will consume them, body and soul. Deal with it.

Just look no further then the whine thread for proof.

[Hellspawn28]

The GINO line in GMK was a gag line, I remember reading that the people at Sony thought that line was funny.

[Living Corpse]

The GINO line in GMK was a gag line, I remember reading that the people at Sony thought that line was funny.

Yeah I bet they would say that after how it flopped.

[MaxDefiant]

I've always considered it a "Godzilla" film.

I've never really examined how the timelines work, so I'm not going to open that can of worms, but the appearance of the 'Zilla form factor and behavior in Final Wars solidified for me that Toho accepted the idea of that film being in the overall Godzilla "canon".

I have the DVD on my shelf between the Space-Godzilla/Destroyah double feature and Godzilla 2000.

Yes, this is what I was trying to get at. I wasn't trying to connect certain movies and certain timelines, I was just saying that in my mind it is definitely a real "Godzilla" film now.

I personally like how Godzilla films are similar to James Bond films in that some are direct sequels and others star over with no regards for previous films. It frees up the writers and directors to do something new and fresh.

[Tyler]

I honestly forgot that an old man shouted "Gojira" in the beginning of that film, haven't seen it in years. In that case then, it's linked to GMK perfectly.

GINO tries to go with the "Godzilla was a bad translation" thing when in reality Toho came up with the name themselves.

[Malchik]

I honestly forgot that an old man shouted "Gojira" in the beginning of that film, haven't seen it in years. In that case then, it's linked to GMK perfectly.

GINO tries to go with the "Godzilla was a bad translation" thing when in reality Toho came up with the name themselves.

Everything else about GINO is a con, so why not that.

[kpa]

I honestly forgot that an old man shouted "Gojira" in the beginning of that film, haven't seen it in years. In that case then, it's linked to GMK perfectly.

It doesn't, because in the 1998 GODZILLA is supposed to be set in the "real" world. So, according to the film, there's never been a giant monster attack before Godzilla appears in New York City. The Gojira/Godzilla name is taken from an old Japanese legend, not a monster that appeared in 1954.

In GMK, it's established that Godzilla attacked Japan in 1954 and that other monsters have appeared from time to time in the 50 years since then. That doesn't mesh with G'98 at all.

[bananaoil]

In GMK, it's established that Godzilla attacked Japan in 1954 and that other monsters have appeared from time to time in the 50 years since then. That doesn't mesh with G'98 at all.

Sequels and TV shows often retcon previous entries for various reasons. It's entirely plausible that GINO is in GMK's continuity but GMK can't be a part of GINO's continuity. I'm not saying this is the case, just playing devil's advocate.

It's like when Mechagodzilla's remains magically move between the end of Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla and the beginning of Terror of Mechagodzilla, or when Death Ghidorah is replaced with Grand King Ghidorah as the reason the dinosaurs became extinct.

In this case, since GMK is the subsequent film, the line of dialogue can be a gag, or it can literally imply that GINO happened, since GMK insists other monsters have appeared, and that GMK is simply ignoring that in GINO, no other monsters had ever appeared. My vote is for both.

[Mini-Godzilla]

In GMK, it's established that Godzilla attacked Japan in 1954 and that other monsters have appeared from time to time in the 50 years since then. That doesn't mesh with G'98 at all.

In Gojira, we see Godzilla's skeleton dissolve. In Godzilla x Mechagodzilla, we see that his skeleton is intact. Sequels can take liberties. Just look at the Evil Dead films!

(Or, you know, what Bananaoil said above...)

[kpa]

Mini-Godzilla and bananoil, you apparently missed that I was addressing Destroyer's comment (quoted in my post) that G'98 "linked to GMK perfectly." If you have to do a retcon or take liberties to stories to make the link work, then obviously they weren't linked perfectly.

The general theme of the Millennium Series were what if/alternate takes on Godzilla and the other other monsters. MEGAGUIRUS launches from the premise of "what if Godzilla was never killed by the Oxygen Destroyer?, GMK is "what if Godzilla hadn't been seen since 1954?" and GxMG is "what if Godzilla's bones had been disintegrated?". The films are supposed to take liberties with what had gone before; that's the point.

I've talked to Shusuke Kaneko about GMK, and the bit at the beginning serves two purposes. First, it sets up a key premise about the timeline created for the film: Godzilla hadn't been seen in 50 years. Therefore, people have pretty much forgotten the monster and don't really know what it looked like while the name "Godzilla" has become a generic term for "monster"... that's why Baragon is initially mistaken for Godzilla and is later called "Red Godzilla".

That's also sets up part 2: that the reference is intended as a joke; a dig at the American GODZILLA which Kaneko thought was awful. A giant monster attacked New York late in the 20th century and people who didn't know better mistook it for Godzilla. Kaneko expects the audience to get that its a shot at the American film (and I can tell you that Sony executives laughed out loud at the line when they screened GMK). But in no way to does the reference create a "perfect link" between GMK and G'98 because you would have to discard the backstory and the intentions of the filmmakers for both movies to make that happen.

And that's the point of my previous post.

[bananaoil]

Mini-Godzilla and bananoil, you apparently missed that I was addressing Destroyer's comment (quoted in my post) that G'98 "linked to GMK perfectly." If you have to do a retcon or take liberties to stories to make the link work, then obviously they weren't linked perfectly.

But studios use retcons to link films together "perfectly" all the time!!! You're just quibbling over syntax, now. We didn't say anything in an attempt to contradict or troll you.

The general theme of the Millennium Series were what if/alternate takes on Godzilla and the other other monsters. MEGAGUIRUS launches from the premise of "what if Godzilla was never killed by the Oxygen Destroyer?, GMK is "what if Godzilla hadn't been seen since 1954?" and GxMG is "what if Godzilla's bones had been disintegrated?". The films are supposed to take liberties with what had gone before; that's the point.

I'm pretty sure most Godzilla fans know this.

I've talked to Shusuke Kaneko about GMK, and the bit at the beginning serves two purposes. First, it sets up a key premise about the timeline created for the film: Godzilla hadn't been seen in 50 years. Therefore, people have pretty much forgotten the monster and don't really know what it looked like while the name "Godzilla" has become a generic term for "monster"... that's why Baragon is initially mistaken for Godzilla and is later called "Red Godzilla".

Funny. I didn't need to talk with Kaneko to know this (Hint: this is where I'm actually starting to be a jerk, incase you couldn't tell. Maybe you need to verify that with Kaneko, first?)

That's also sets up part 2: that the reference is intended as a joke; a dig at the American GODZILLA which Kaneko thought was awful. A giant monster attacked New York late in the 20th century and people who didn't know better mistook it for Godzilla. Kaneko expects the audience to get that its a shot at the American film (and I can tell you that Sony executives laughed out loud at the line when they screened GMK).

And I clearly said I knew it was a joke. And I clearly implied agreement that GMK established a monster attack on New York. Since both instances are direct references to the American Godzilla, regardless of "creator's intentions," it's not a stretch, then, to assume the American Godzilla happened in some capacity. Jesus.

But in no way to does the reference create a "perfect link" between GMK and G'98 because you would have to discard the backstory and the intentions of the filmmakers for both movies to make that happen.

And you glazed over my "devil's advocate" line just to rant. Feel better, now?

[Mini-Godzilla]

Mini-Godzilla and bananoil

Okay, bananaoil handled the rebuttal quite well, so I won't bother to contribute. I have to nitpick, though: why did you list my name first? I was the second person to respond, I have a username that alphabetically follows his, and I provided a shorter response. Furthermore, he has several years of TK Forum seniority on me. By all logical determinants of order, you should have placed his name first. But perhaps I'm just too frazzled from my students' incoherent essays.

Seriously, though: this whole thread is quite silly, since only Toho can decide upon canon. Having said that, I must argue that GMK's joke requires the existence and acknowledgement of G98, so GMK does indeed follow G98 in its own snarky, self-aware way. That's not an issue of canon, but rather one of reference. One film informs the other.