Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby shinmattiathekaiju » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:16 am

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:
Personally, I think the only "strike-outs" during the Showa era were Godzilla Raids Again and All Monsters Attack. Other than that, every film is good on its own merits.


Even Godzilla vs Megalon?[/quote]

Yeah. Godzilla vs. Megalon is so much fun to watch. It knows exactly what it wants to be, and it keeps the audience entertained the entire time. Watching the MST3K version of it is some of the best entertainment you'll get in an hour and a half.[/quote]

So you like to watch an insult to Godzilla?
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby JVM » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:18 am

shinmattiathekaiju wrote:
GotengoXGodzilla wrote:
Personally, I think the only "strike-outs" during the Showa era were Godzilla Raids Again and All Monsters Attack. Other than that, every film is good on its own merits.


Even Godzilla vs Megalon?


Yeah. Godzilla vs. Megalon is so much fun to watch. It knows exactly what it wants to be, and it keeps the audience entertained the entire time. Watching the MST3K version of it is some of the best entertainment you'll get in an hour and a half.[/quote]

So you like to watch an insult to Godzilla?[/quote]

AMA knows exactly what it wants to be, too - a kids movie about bullying featuring stock footage and a shoestring budget.

Just putting that out there.
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:41 am

shinmattiathekaiju wrote:Even Godzilla vs Megalon?


Yeah. Godzilla vs. Megalon is so much fun to watch. It knows exactly what it wants to be, and it keeps the audience entertained the entire time. Watching the MST3K version of it is some of the best entertainment you'll get in an hour and a half.


So you like to watch an insult to Godzilla?


What are you referring to: Godzilla vs. Megalon or MST3K?

Well, it doesn't matter, neither is an insult to Godzilla. Megalon is a lot of fun with the character of Godzilla. And have you watched the MST3K version of Godzilla vs. Megalon? They don't "insult" Godzilla at all. Hell, they hardly even tear the movie apart. All they do is provide a fun and enjoyable commentary, especially during the final fight. If they find holes in the plot, they pointed them out, but they don't do that too often in Godzilla vs. Megalon to the point where it ruins the overall enjoyment of the film.

AMA knows exactly what it wants to be, too - a kids movie about bullying featuring stock footage and a shoestring budget.


Yes, but All Monsters Attack suffers from different problems. While it knows that it wants to be, its not enjoyable. In a film called All Monsters Attack, plus a film that features Godzilla in the film for quite a while, I want to see monsters duking it out. Instead, its all about a little kid as he fights off bullies and has lots of stock footage fights in it.

The only reason I ever watched the film as a kid, was because I was under the impression that it had a lot of Godzilla scenes in it, because...you know, I want to watch Godzilla. But, the reason that I hated it as a kid was because all of the Godzilla stuff that was in All Monsters Attack, I could find in other films like Ebirah, Horror Of The Deep and Son Of Godzilla, and then the rest is about a kid that I don't give a crap about, because he's in a movie called All Monsters Attack. If you have a title like that, then it should be about the title characters, ie. the monsters. Not some kid.

Here's an example: Lets say that you're watching a family argument at a dinner table, but in the corner of your eye, you can see a television playing old Bruce Lee films. What are you going to be more interested in: the family argument or Bruce Lee? That's the problem with All Monsters Attack. That while you have this dilemma with Ishiro, I lose complete interest in his problems when the monsters show up. The fights maybe stock footage, but they're still more interesting than what's going on with Ishiro. Especially when there is so much monster action in the film already. Everything about Ishiro is just overpowered by the monsters, that in the end, I simply do not care about him. Which in this film is really bad, since he's the only thing that's slightly interesting about it.

So yeah, while it may know what it wants to be, that doesn't stop it from being unenjoyable.
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby JVM » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:03 am

^ But that's everything it's intended to be. Don't get me wrong, I don't enjoy it myself. But if we're going to give Megalon points back for knowing what it's supposed to be we, we can't really go against AMA because it's in that same shoe. The only difference being Megalon is a funner film.
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby King Caesar » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:52 am

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:
King Caesar wrote:I think once Ebirah came around with his volleyball skills, something went wrong in the mood department.

Well...the mood in the Godzilla films certainly changed (it changed before that, but I won't debate when it started), but who says its a bad mood?

The mood swing between 1954 and 1966 (or even 1964 for that matter) isn't bad, but it really damaged the Big G's reputation for being a big mean green eating machine. (Don't get me wrong, I love all the Showa movies, the tone they set just changed)
A lighthearted Godzilla film is remembered more than the standard serious-toned Godzilla films like Invasion Of The Astro-Monster and Ghidorah, The Three-Headed Monster.

The first Ghidorah movie and then the one that had Godzilla doing his first dance routine (plus Nick Adams) are not as memorable? Heh, strange. Those two stand out in the Showa series to me. Granted, the lighthearted ones still hold a special place in my heart, I tend to look at the earlier years in theShowa series for the noteables.

Question for everyone: Do you think they would have been better off letting the series go once DAM was finished? Did they need to continue on?
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby Space Hunter M » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:40 am

I like these movies for what they really are. I think that's just how it goes, In a long running series of anything, some entries will differentiate from than the rest. I don't think anything went wrong, although in retrospective it is a bit hard to imagine that Godzilla is still the same one that destroyed Osaka all the way back in 1955. As for the post-DAM question, yes they needed to continue on, I'm glad with what we got (Mechagodzilla!). I just circle out the post-DAM era as "The Matsuri Years (1969-1975)", because they were all part of Toho's "kiddie-matinee" Champion Matsuri Film festival.
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby TokyoVigilante » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:48 am

King Caesar wrote:The mood swing between 1954 and 1966 (or even 1964 for that matter) isn't bad, but it really damaged the Big G's reputation for being a big mean green eating machine. (Don't get me wrong, I love all the Showa movies, the tone they set just changed)

The mood of what exactly? Godzilla or the films themselves? KKvsG is an anvil and and banana peel short of being a live action cartoon and it is the highest grossing and most influential film in the entire franchise, so I don't see how that could possible ruin his "reputation" established from two films almost yen years previous to KKvsG; especially since the majority of the people who saw KKvsG probably hadn't seen GOJIRA/GRA.
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:49 am

But that's everything it's intended to be. Don't get me wrong, I don't enjoy it myself. But if we're going to give Megalon points back for knowing what it's supposed to be we, we can't really go against AMA because it's in that same shoe. The only difference being Megalon is a funner film.


I give points to Godzilla vs. Megalon for knowing what it wants to be, and being entertaining. All Monsters Attack knows what it wants to be, but its not entertaining. Therefore, I don't give it points for knowing what it wants to be.

The first Ghidorah movie and then the one that had Godzilla doing his first dance routine (plus Nick Adams) are not as memorable? Heh, strange. Those two stand out in the Showa series to me. Granted, the lighthearted ones still hold a special place in my heart, I tend to look at the earlier years in theShowa series for the noteables.


So do I. But the lighthearted ones are more memorable, because they're so different. For outside fans, all of the serious minded Godzilla films might start to blend together, and be harder to tell apart. Lighthearted ones are few and far between, plus diffferent from most Godzilla films. Therefore, more memorable.
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby tymon » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:57 am

^Meh, the badass-ness of Mothra vs. Godzilla has always been more memorable to me than the silliness of Godzilla vs. Megalon. But that's just me...
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:03 pm

tymon wrote:^Meh, the badass-ness of Mothra vs. Godzilla has always been more memorable to me than the silliness of Godzilla vs. Megalon. But that's just me...


In this regard, I'm talking about non-Godzilla fans. The lighthearted ones are more memorable to them, because they're so different.
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby tymon » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:13 pm

Ah sorry, I misread. You're probably right about that though.
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby Gojira-Fan » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:32 pm

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:
tymon wrote:^Meh, the badass-ness of Mothra vs. Godzilla has always been more memorable to me than the silliness of Godzilla vs. Megalon. But that's just me...


In this regard, I'm talking about non-Godzilla fans. The lighthearted ones are more memorable to them, because they're so different.


Seeing as the stereotype for Godzilla films is that they are silly, wouldn't most non-fans not even think that a serious Godzilla movie exists?
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby Rody » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:17 pm

Having gone through nearly all the Showa films again, I can say this:

The series didn't go wrong. There were some bad ones, like Godzilla Raids Again, but for the most part all the films are very memorable. I'll watch most 60's and 70's films over most Heisei & Millennium films any day.
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby FlamingZilla23 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:17 pm

Image

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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby TokyoVigilante » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:28 pm

Minya is wonderful. He's one of my favorite aspects of the Showa films and hails from one of best films in the franchise.
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:28 pm

After Godzilla's Revenge was made, there were still three decent/good Godzilla films. Godzilla's Revenge may suck, but it didn't ruin the Showa era.

Also, Minilla was one of the driving forces of Son Of Godzilla, so I can't really hate Minilla.
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby TokyoVigilante » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:31 pm

King Kong vs. Godzilla to All Monsters Attack is such a wonderful unbroken chain of goodness. They're the only Godzilla films I brought with me other then Godzilla vs. Megalon, GMK, and Godzilla: Final Wars.
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby Rody » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:49 pm

Minilla's terribly ugly, but his character is one of the most fleshed-out of any Toho kaiju. I respect him for that.
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby menschenjaeger » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:20 am

I haven't ploughed through the entire 42 pages, but...I enjoy reading the arguments for EXACTLY, PRECISELY the same reasons I enjoy watching guys in suits beating each other up in scale models of major Japanese cities. :D

My .02... yeah, after a while, the Showa-era films certainly didn't go where I would like to have seen them go. They can't all be War of the Gargantuas or Ghidrah. The stock footage and lackluster kaiju action (I'm looking at you GvGigan) are what really drained some of the awesome factor. That and it constantly being "Godzilla chases off pesky aliens."

I think the only kaiju eiga to ever integrate fun + excitement + horror + story + effects with anything close to 100% success would be the Heisei Gamera trilogy, but those couldn't have happened without what came before. Other than Gojira, Showa-era movies were shooting for giving an entertaining moviegoing experience, and most delivered.
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Re: Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

Postby RedZillaKing » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:50 am

Godzilla's Revenge to Godzilla vs. Megalon were dark times indeed. After that the series started to pick up again... Only to go on a 10 year hiatus.
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