Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

[therealmccoy]

I looked at some other box office reports on here, and it was considerably lower. I looked at Mothra vs. Godzilla and Destroy All Monsters, and they both made over 2.5 million. So I would have to say no, it wasn't successful, but I'm just going by the stats.

[King Caesar]

^ I could have sworn Mothra vs Godzilla was one of the highest grossing films, but I might be getting that mixed up with Godzilla vs King Ghidorah.

[therealmccoy]

^ I could have sworn Mothra vs Godzilla was one of the highest grossing films, but I might be getting that mixed up with Godzilla vs King Ghidorah.

I think that was Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992) That's what it says in my Compendium anyway. I think it still is, too.

[King Caesar]

...I knew that. Okay that makes a bit more sense now.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

I now look at Godzilla vs. Gigan as the "Anti-Godzilla Godzilla film". Kind of like how Enchanted or The Emperor's New Groove are the "Anti-Disney Disney films".

Everything Godzilla film made before Godzilla vs. Gigan had a lot of things in common: They were mostly monster driven, the aliens wanted to destroy the world, they all made their own new monster footage and new music, the characters were usually very similar with high-profile careers and nice lives. But, with Godzilla vs. Gigan, all of that is reversed: The characters are the main focus of the story, the aliens want peace (in their own weird way), all the music is recycled from previous films, as well as most of the monster footage, and the characters lead weird yet interesting lives with low-profile careers. There's more reverses to it, but those are some of the more obvious ones.

It turns everything that the previous Godzilla films were on their heads, but still attempts to tell as good of a story as possible. Being the "Anti-Godzilla Godzilla film" isn't a bad thing either, it's just...different. And I can appreciate Fukada and crew for attempting to do that. It really makes this one of the funniest Godzilla films, IMO. Mind you, this is still my least favorite Jun Fukada Godzilla film, but it's not terrible, just odd and out of place at times.

[Proofpoochie]

This film isn't great, but it's still a lot of fun. I prefer it to Megalon.

[Irys X]

I always liked this film for some reason. Maybe because it was one of the first Showa Godzilla movies i saw, or maybe because I really like Gigan and the tag team structure, I can't really pinpoint why. I just like it a lot.

[DoctorMafune]

This film is a really mixed bag. The human story puts me off more than most, with its ridiculously overacting lead, that snarky teen as the lead villain, and its low-budget silliness (e.g., tapes somehow capable of summoning the monsters falling into the hands of marginally employed goofballs who nevertheless manage to play them on normal stereo equipment and wake up Godzilla and Angilas.) The music editor drew Ifukube's cues—normally a deeply moving asset to any film—from so many widely varying sources that they're actually distracting in places: like using the march from Frankenstein Conquers the World for driving around Japan. And the main title, used again during the final battle, which was taken from music that A.I. composed for an exhibition at Expo '70, isn't the best match for the film, either. (I did think that the stock music drawn from Battle In Outer Space worked perfectly in the scene where the aliens summon Gigan and KG... a cue that the visuals were tailored so beautifully to match, one could easily believe it had been composed for this film.)

The effects scenes contain some groaners so nearly unwatchable that one longs for a pair of scissors and ten minutes in the editing booth, and those pathetically out of scale, motionless flying models of Gigan and Ghidorah circling the Godzilla Tower's head, along with that hideous G '67 suit (even worse than before, given its deterioration) rising from the bay, would be the first to hit the floor. (It's too bad Nakano thought he was saving money that way... Given that the G '68 suit wouldn't be used after this film, anyway, and he could have used it in the water, too, filming those scenes last. 20-20 hindsight, though...)

And of course, the stock footage was really distracting, too. One can imagine that small fry in Japanese theaters who hadn't seen Ghidorah laying waste to Tokyo, seven years earlier, would be impressed, though... and the infamous "talking" scenes weren't as bad in the Japanese version, either. (As someone else has probably pointed out, word balloons appeared next to Godzilla and Angilas... there were no dubbed voices.)

And all that said, this film has some breathtaking visuals of its own. Gigan, especially as he appears in this film, is fantastically designed and a joy to look at. As others have noted, Ghidorah and Gigan make a thematically appealing and visually striking team (especially against those deep blue sky backgrounds), and a precious few of their scenes together are stunning. Even though the small scale of the masers doesn't quite work, I love the scene of Ghidorah, marching across the landscape alongside Gigan, blowing the Hell out of them... and like some other jaw-droppers in this film, that scene was filmed at the correct speed to make the monsters seem massive.

Best of all is that battle in the oil refinery, which I thought was nothing short of astonishing: especially seeing this film shortly after suffering through some of the crudely filmed inanities in Megalon. The low angles, the scenes of Gigan brandishing his weapons and both invaders essentially daring the Earth monsters to come ashore, the fantastic and colorful explosions, the appropriately lumbering strides of the monsters, and even the music editor (who chose the perfect cue from this scene) combined to make this one of the most awesome battles in all the Godzilla series. I even like the fact that Godzilla essentially ignores Gigan when he first reaches grappling range, and thunders right into his arch-enemy Ghidorah. This battle alone was worth the price of admission.

Setting later stages of the confrontation in a large amusement park with a life-size replica of Godzilla was a clever touch that had some (mostly unrealized) visual potential... It's too bad that the budget didn't allow for some real spectacle there, instead of an underwhelming Godzilla Tower sculpt and little more than giant building blocks and mushrooms for the monsters to thrash their ways through.

Budgetary restrictions may also explain why Godzilla doesn't use his atomic breath more, even though it's obviously effective against Gigan. As for what our heroes did, instead... well...

Despite the fact that some of the tactics Godzilla and Angilas use to win (e.g., flipping Ghidorah (THREE times), and jumping backwards), and the fact that Ghidorah alone, in his prime, would have given them enough pure Hell to have them both on the ropes for awhile, Godzilla and Angilas having gotten the living daylights hammered out of them earlier in the film builds some dramatic tension, providing a good emotional foundation for their eventual victory.

The bottom line, for me: despite all its flaws, Gigan is my second favorite Godzilla film on the 70s (with Terror of MechaGodzilla taking the top spot.)

[Primevalgodzilla V2]

^ I could have sworn Mothra vs Godzilla was one of the highest grossing films, but I might be getting that mixed up with Godzilla vs King Ghidorah.

I think that was Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992) That's what it says in my Compendium anyway. I think it still is, too.

Inflated, the oringinal Mothra vs Godzilla and GTTHM ARE among the highest grossers.

[Kyono_Rei]

^ I could have sworn Mothra vs Godzilla was one of the highest grossing films, but I might be getting that mixed up with Godzilla vs King Ghidorah.

I think that was Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992) That's what it says in my Compendium anyway. I think it still is, too.

Inflated, the oringinal Mothra vs Godzilla and GTTHM ARE among the highest grossers.

Remember that 1992 was an economical depression year in Japan which was not yet recovering from the 1989 crisis.

[therealmccoy]

^ I could have sworn Mothra vs Godzilla was one of the highest grossing films, but I might be getting that mixed up with Godzilla vs King Ghidorah.

I think that was Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992) That's what it says in my Compendium anyway. I think it still is, too.

Inflated, the oringinal Mothra vs Godzilla and GTTHM ARE among the highest grossers.

At the risk of getting off topic: When adjusted for inflation, isn't King Kong vs. Godzilla still the highest grossing Godzilla film in the series? I thought I remember reading that somewhere. I had no idea that Ghidorah was one of the top grossers.
But back on topic, this one was a definite low point in terms of revenue. If I had been alive back then my speculation would have more merit, but I think I remember reading that Japanese cinema during that time period was really suffering.

[Legion1979]

At the risk of getting off topic: When adjusted for inflation, isn't King Kong vs. Godzilla still the highest grossing Godzilla film in the series?

Sure is.

[Kyono_Rei]

But back on topic, this one was a definite low point in terms of revenue. If I had been alive back then my speculation would have more merit, but I think I remember reading that Japanese cinema during that time period was really suffering.

It really was. I think this created a vicious circle - tokusatsu films got low budgets, so many good scenes were cut or never made. They saved up on some sets and started reusing stock footage a lot more.
This in turn made the films as a whole to be of lower quality, which made less people watch them and thus bring in less revenue. Less revenue meant even smaller budgets for the next tokusatsu film...

I think it is a shame, because I believe Godzilla vs Gigan had some good ideas and the new scenes were some of the best of the showa era yet. If they had enough money to film ALL of the scenes this way (instead of reusing stock footage) it might have been the best Godzilla film to date, which would attract more viewers and bring more income.

I think Japanese cinema is having a similar moment now. If they would get a big enough budget to create large, detailed miniature scenes, and then combine them with CGI acting as an additional "filter" and way to enchance scenes (and not make scenes from scratch) then they could get a world winner here... but I'm getting off-topic. Sorry.

[Legion1979]

It really was. I think this created a vicious circle - tokusatsu films got low budgets, so many good scenes were cut or never made. They saved up on some sets and started reusing stock footage a lot more.

Haven't seen Gamera vs Viras yet, have you?

This in turn made the films as a whole to be of lower quality, which made less people watch them and thus bring in less revenue. Less revenue meant even smaller budgets for the next tokusatsu film...

No. Not really. The reason why people weren't going to the monster films anymore had nothing to do with "quality" or stock footage. Why go to the movies when you can stay home and watch stuff like Ultraman, Ultaseven and Space Giants for absolutely free?

I think it is a shame, because I believe Godzilla vs Gigan had some good ideas and the new scenes were some of the best of the showa era yet. If they had enough money to film ALL of the scenes this way (instead of reusing stock footage) it might have been the best Godzilla film to date, which would attract more viewers and bring more income.

It wouldn't have mattered.

[Kyono_Rei]

Haven't seen Gamera vs Viras yet, have you?

That's a 60s movie, plus I'm not taht much of a Gamera fan. I should have made it more clear that I was talking about the 70s era films in the last thread.

No. Not really. The reason why people weren't going to the monster films anymore had nothing to do with "quality" or stock footage. Why go to the movies when you can stay home and watch stuff like Ultraman, Ultaseven and Space Giants for absolutely free?

You have a point, but one does not exclude the other. TV shifted the focus away from cinema, but these were the booming japanese 70s. The economy was great and anyone had enoug money to go to the cinema at least several times a year. Other genres of film did not have such a drastic cutback like kaiju films.
TV had a role in lowering budgets initially, but then the snowball effect was kept on by lower quality. The Heisei comeback proved very well that TV is not a factor that alone could ruin kaiju films and prevent people from going to the cinema to see Godzilla. If the studios kept a different personal and budget policy in the 70s, there wouldn't need a "comeback" in the first place.

[Legion1979]

TV shifted the focus away from cinema, but these were the booming japanese 70s. The economy was great

The Japanese film industry was CRIPPLED in the 1970's.

[Lord Gappa]

TV shifted the focus away from cinema, but these were the booming japanese 70s. The economy was great

The Japanese film industry was CRIPPLED in the 1970's.

Hence why Zone Fighter was canceled.

[Legion1979]

TV shifted the focus away from cinema, but these were the booming japanese 70s. The economy was great

The Japanese film industry was CRIPPLED in the 1970's.

Hence why Zone Fighter was canceled.

Umm what?

A better response would have been: "Hence why many long-time actors and filmmakers retired in the '70s, many theaters closed, film series ended and why many film companies went out of business."

Your comment was probably sarcasm, but it still doesn't make sense.

[TokyoVigilante]

You have a point, but one does not exclude the other. TV shifted the focus away from cinema, but these were the booming japanese 70s. The economy was great and anyone had enoug money to go to the cinema at least several times a year. Other genres of film did not have such a drastic cutback like kaiju films.

Everything I've read on the subject points out that the seventies in Japan were economically tough and that the "Economic Miracle" of Japan was throughout the sixties. Several film studios that were once prosperous were forced to either closed down or begin making pornography either full time or part time to survive and once financially successful franchises like the "Young Guy" films and Crazy Cats comedies were axed, never to appear again.

TV had a role in lowering budgets initially, but then the snowball effect was kept on by lower quality. The Heisei comeback proved very well that TV is not a factor that alone could ruin kaiju films and prevent people from going to the cinema to see Godzilla.

The Heisei era was successful because of nostalgia. The Return of Godzilla was a luke-warm success and Godzilla vs. Biollante, a film that has rightfully earned the acclaim as one of the best films in the entire franchise, was a financial disappointment. The success from bringing back King Ghidorah indicated to Toho that the public wasn't interested in a fresh kaiju experience, they wanted to go watch films with characters from their childhood. For the next three films Toho focused on reviving iconic and classic foes from their roster in films that are notorious for having spotty special effects that range from stellar to inexcusably awful and contrived poorly written scripts. Spacegodzilla had a slashed budget and resources and Destroyah was milked for all its worth as the "final" movie.

If the studios kept a different personal and budget policy in the 70s, there wouldn't need a "comeback" in the first place.

Personnel? Wha..? Jun Fukuda is a solid Director, screenwriter Shinichi Sekizawa pretty much invented the Kaiju genre, and special effects director Teruyoshi Nakano clearly demonstrated his considerable talent when he had the time and money by his work in The Return of Godzilla. The personnel were just fine, it was the economic climate and Tohos penny pinching that gave us the films we got.

[Lord Gappa]

Hence why Zone Fighter was canceled.

Umm what?

A better response would have been: "Hence why many long-time actors and filmmakers retired in the '70s, many theaters closed, film series ended and why many film companies went out of business."

Your comment was probably sarcasm, but it still doesn't make sense.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't Zone Fighter canceled due to economic problems?