Final Wars: Why all the Hate?

[KaneLocke]

Ya know what?

When the vast majority of people -who almost never agree on something- and you are the only one on the other side of that, Destroyer, you may just want to reevaluate your stance. No, not to become a blind sheep... but because if *I* am agreeing with basically everything GxG has said, there's obviously something more to it than just blindly hating the film.

Stop defending yourself, D. No one is saying you can't like it. But the film is crap.

[Biollante]

Ya know what?

When the vast majority of people -who almost never agree on something- and you are the only one on the other side of that, Destroyer, you may just want to reevaluate your stance. No, not to become a blind sheep

But that's exactly what he would be doing...

[Chris55]

How many "I don't get the GFW hate" threads have we had on TK anyway? They seem to spring up every few months or so and most of the time by someone new to the board.

[Cimmerian Dragon]

The fights were incredible with the effects, Mothra vs. Gigan combined with the dramatic music was plain epic.

The effects were probably the worst part of the whole mess outside of the script. Look at the absolutely incredible SFX work in Tokyo S.O.S., and then compare it to the slipshod, pixel-visible CGI or the lightwieght Monster X maneuvers (looks like he weighs 200 pounds, not several tons), or the terrible matte work (like the pimp getting blown away by the fireball in NYC). Yes, some of the effects were decent, but they were not up to the standards of the preceeding film, and that is solely the fault of the director, who squandered the largest effects budget of the entire series trying to cram too much irrelevant bullshit into the movie, and so most of the effects on screen still look unfinished, as though the crew ran out of time and money.

Listen, just so you don't feel "alone", I'll admit that I enjoyed the sections of the movie featuring Godzilla (and Gordon, can't help it), and anyone can tell you that I have defended that 30% of the picture in the past as being stupid fun. However, that does not redeem the film as a whole, nor make it on-the-whole a fun film. I can fast-forward through nearly 3 quarters of the movie, and still see everything that I didn't find too much fault with.

[King Caesar]

I like this movie! Okay? I said it. It was a nice way to see a cast of monsters that probably wouldn't have returned for another who-knows-how-many years. The Rodan attack scene is pretty cool, I'm not gonna lie. It's not on the scale of "The Ten Commandments" or "Ben Hur" per say, but it is memorable. That said, it does have it's flaws. The lack of a title character having that much screentime is a bit of a problem. On the bright side, there's always Don Frye, who kicks ass and doesn't bother taking names. At least the villains aren't as bland as the Kilaakians in the look-a-like, DAM. They have some personality.

My final verdict: Three Don Fryes out of a possible Five.

[Destroyer]

As Svitska said, all you've done is make the same points over and over again, usually something like "It has great monster scenes" or "It has lots of monsters in it", yet never back them up. So, I'll say that no, you haven't attempted to explain your position.

You say that you do reviews on another website, yet you fail to do what film reviewers attempt to do in every single review: Explain why something is good or bad. All you've done is say the same statements, all of which have been rebuked. If you really want to defend GFW, then back up your statements.

Alright, I'm going to say this yet again with more detail. I thought the film was "cool" in that we get 15 monsters, with what I think to be great effects. (CGI mixed with the good ol' suits does a good job.) My main monster, Gigan, gets a nice role and the new design I really liked. There were so many really cool little moments, (which I've already said them) the fights were too short, but they were short and sweet. (Godzilla vs. Zilla combined with that rock music is probably the coolest 11 second fight in history.) The humans were cool, and not dull like the humans in a lot of the films are. I was glad they had the karate scenes, it made the non-monster scenes more bearable.

That's really all I have to say. And yes, I know how to review movies well, I'll attach an example. http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... s/?a=43552

[TokyoVigilante]

^
But see, that's the problem. It's "cool", but that's all it has going for it. It's a hollow, vapid, trying to be hip with the times film and it's just not appropriate for a franchise that covers as much ground and is as old as Godzilla. For a 50th Anniversary celebration, you need more then "cool".

I would enjoy seeing Kitamura with the same creative and budgetary restrictions that Kaneko and Tezuka had to put up with for their Millennium films. No one would be nearly as negative towards Final Wars if it was just another Millennium movie, but if this is supposed to be the big skreeonk pat on the back to the fans then they completely dropped the ball and that's the issue people have with it.

[Svitska Donkun]

That's really all I have to say. And yes, I know how to review movies well, I'll attach an example. http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... s/?a=43552

That review is strange. It feels rather biased, and it seems to define the films quality based on how close of an adaptation it was. This is the wrong way to look at films. A film should be judged as a film no matter what is in it or what its based off of. Its strange to see you talking about what a movie got "right" then to see you posting defenses on a movie that got everything wrong.

[Ethan]

I agree with many of the points made here. It's so sadly true that Kitamura used the film as a vehicle to exploit his own interests rather than wanting to make a Godzilla film. However I would not say this is the worst film in the franchise. Godzilla Final Wars is by all accounts F Grade, however Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla is a worse film for the following reasons:

There is no clear protagonist. Nobody we root for. Nobody we remember after watching the film, very few people take a proactive approach to things. One could argue that characters like Colonel Gordon, or even Torgo are more memorable than anybody in this film. Miki Saeguse is given the umpteenth chance to develop a personality and instead sits back in her "I don't want to do this but I'' do it all the same" stance from the previous film.

The special effects work is easily the most embarrassing in the series. Compare them to those in The Return of Godzilla , made a whopping 10 years earlier and tell me which of the works has aged better. Godzilla Final Wars has its fair share of SyFy reminiscent moments, but never do you see something in the league of the asteroid battle from Spacegodzilla.

The biggest fault however, is the antagonist monster. Spacegodzilla is one Toho's most uninspired creations. This is a monster that has come to Earth with the sole purpose of destroying Godzilla, but the story makes no attempt to establish clear hostility between both monsters. Say what you will about Kaizer Ghidorah or Destroyer, but there both were clear-cut enemies, their presence in the films made a difference. Spacegodzilla? Not so much, he's like his human counterparts a passive self. He wanders aimlessly around cities, sporadically destroying things, getting away from Godzilla after their first battle and generally not moving from his location during the climax. His capturing of Little Godzilla in a crystal prison is quickly forgotten until the end of the film, it's just something that comes and goes.

[Destroyer]

That's really all I have to say. And yes, I know how to review movies well, I'll attach an example. http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... s/?a=43552

That review is strange. It feels rather biased, and it seems to define the films quality based on how close of an adaptation it was. This is the wrong way to look at films. A film should be judged as a film no matter what is in it or what its based off of. Its strange to see you talking about what a movie got "right" then to see you posting defenses on a movie that got everything wrong.

You're the first person to tell me that it feels rather biased. As a Marvel Comics fan, I had to point out what they got right, if they make an adaption, they should adapt it. Cap succeeded in both ways, as an adaption and as a film overall.

Final Wars is a fun film, that's it. I consider it to be a fun, cool film for the King of Monsters. It doesn't have the substance of previous films, but I consider it to be a very entertaining movie.

[Shōbijin]

It such an incredibly dumb movie I love it.

Godzilla vs. Destroyah was as graceful as it could get so why not go the other way for the next final godzilla film?

[Destroyer]

I agree with many of the points made here. It's so sadly true that Kitamura used the film as a vehicle to exploit his own interests rather than wanting to make a Godzilla film. However I would not say this is the worst film in the franchise. Godzilla Final Wars is by all accounts F Grade, however Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla is a worse film for the following reasons:

There is no clear protagonist. Nobody we root for. Nobody we remember after watching the film, very few people take a proactive approach to things. One could argue that characters like Colonel Gordon, or even Torgo are more memorable than anybody in this film. Miki Saeguse is given the umpteenth chance to develop a personality and instead sits back in her "I don't want to do this but I'' do it all the same" stance from the previous film.

The special effects work is easily the most embarrassing in the series. Compare them to those in The Return of Godzilla , made a whopping 10 years earlier and tell me which of the works has aged better. Godzilla Final Wars has its fair share of SyFy reminiscent moments, but never do you see something in the league of the asteroid battle from Spacegodzilla.

The biggest fault however, is the antagonist monster. Spacegodzilla is one Toho's most uninspired creations. This is a monster that has come to Earth with the sole purpose of destroying Godzilla, but the story makes no attempt to establish clear hostility between both monsters. Say what you will about Kaizer Ghidorah or Destroyer, but there both were clear-cut enemies, their presence in the films made a difference. Spacegodzilla? Not so much, he's like his human counterparts a passive self. He wanders aimlessly around cities, sporadically destroying things, getting away from Godzilla after their first battle and generally not moving from his location during the climax. His capturing of Little Godzilla in a crystal prison is quickly forgotten until the end of the film, it's just something that comes and goes.

Yeah, definitely one of the lower Godzilla movies. I liked the monster SpaceGodzilla though, he brought something new to the table. He was kinda like one of those evil mastermind type of guys.

[Gojira21]

Well you know, its my THIRD favorite movie

First of all, kid... PLEASE learn how to quote. No offense, but that was a bitch to try and read.

And Heisei Godzilla beat me to the punch.

I know how to quote lol it was late at night and i was sleepy

But i know there a difference, i was just saying

[GotengoXGodzilla]

I thought the film was "cool" in that we get 15 monsters, with what I think to be great effects. (CGI mixed with the good ol' suits does a good job.)

As I said before, just because it has 15 monsters in it, that does not make it "cool". Far from it. When there are too many monsters, then some monsters get placed above others, and some get left out. On top of that, in GFW the monsters already have little to no screentime, because the director felt like making it about dull human characters, when we're here to see monsters destroy shit. We hardly get any of that, and even the stuff we do get is bad.

As for the effects, I think Cimmerian Dragon did a good job of pointing out how bad the effects in GFW were. The fact that this is the Godzilla film with the highest budget ever, and the effects look worse than they do in Godzilla: Tokyo SOS says a lot about how bad the director and crew screwed up on the effects.

My main monster, Gigan, gets a nice role and the new design I really liked.

...Okay. So what? How does that make the film any better?

Also, Kitamura treats Gigan like crap. They go to the trouble of giving him an ancient backstory, yet in the end didn't amount to a damn thing. On top of that, they kill him off incredibly quickly...twice. For a monster that managed to cause Godzilla a butt-load of trouble back in the Showa era, this is a very poor way to treat that same monster in this film. In the end, Gigan contributed hardly anything to the story.

There were so many really cool little moments, (which I've already said them)

You mean like Rodan attacking New York, but it being ruined by the "cop" and "pimp", plus the bad effects on Rodan? Yeah, we rebuked those little moments.

the fights were too short, but they were short and sweet.

No, they were just short. They would be sweet if they actually meant something, but they just really serve to pad out the film. They don't contribute anything to the film in the long run.

(Godzilla vs. Zilla combined with that rock music is probably the coolest 11 second fight in history.)

...*facepalm*

How many other 11 second fight scenes are there? I mean, the fight wasn't even cool, because A) It was pointless. B) There was nothing to the fight, just Godzilla smacking Zilla once. And C) It's way too short to enjoy. The only reason that scene is still talked about is because Godzilla killed Zilla. That one thing does not save the fight, though.

The humans were cool, and not dull like the humans in a lot of the films are.

... Are we sure this guy isn't AH?

I think you're getting it mixed up. The humans in GFW are dull. There's nothing interesting about them. No redeeming character traits, no relate-ability, no reason to care for them or root for them. The only somewhat likable character is Captain Gordon, but he's likable for all the wrong reasons.

Most other Godzilla films, on the other hand, have great human characters. For example, Mothra vs. Godzilla, Son Of Godzilla, Ebirah, Horror Of The Deep, even GMK all have characters that are relatable and interesting enough so that you care about them, unlike every single character in GFW.

I was glad they had the karate scenes, it made the non-monster scenes more bearable.

...*sigh*

If you really think Kung-Fu makes human scenes more bearable, then that's just upsetting. Might I suggest you watch some of the early Showa era films and pay particular attention to the human scenes? That will tell you the proper way to do human scenes in a daikaiju film.

[Biollante]

If you really think Kung-Fu makes human scenes more bearable, then that's just upsetting. Might I suggest you watch some of the early Showa era films and pay particular attention to the human scenes? That will tell you the proper way to do human scenes in a daikaiju film.

There is no "proper" way to do human scenes, stop being such a snob.

[Gojira21]

Lets just drop the whole arguing issue here. IF he wants to like for the reasons he stated then let him be. Just because he dosen't agree with what you say dose not mean need to critize everything he has typed to deffend himself

[GotengoXGodzilla]

If you really think Kung-Fu makes human scenes more bearable, then that's just upsetting. Might I suggest you watch some of the early Showa era films and pay particular attention to the human scenes? That will tell you the proper way to do human scenes in a daikaiju film.

There is no "proper" way to do human scenes, stop being such a snob.

How is that being snobbish?

Also, you're misinterpreting my use of the word "proper".

[Svitska Donkun]

If you really think Kung-Fu makes human scenes more bearable, then that's just upsetting. Might I suggest you watch some of the early Showa era films and pay particular attention to the human scenes? That will tell you the proper way to do human scenes in a daikaiju film.

There is no "proper" way to do human scenes, stop being such a snob.

There are proper ways to do human scenes, this viewpoint is justified by the wrong ways. Stop being such a moron.

[Biollante]

Stop being such a moron.

Now that wasn't called for.

[Svitska Donkun]

Stop being such a moron.

Now that wasn't called for.

So was calling someone a snob for no real reason.