Monster Discussion #47: Battra

[Crocodile]

And I never will understand how Battra IS Mothra. One is a moth. The only aesthetic similarity they have is the number of legs and being insectoid.

Yin-Yang

2 halves, same coin.
Harshity and Tenderness

They're two halves of the same whole, 1 is whatever the other isn't

[Tyler]

I think Mothra and Battra have an interesting relationship, it just wasn't utilized properly. Mothra protects the people while Battra protects the land, which causes a conflict between the two when people begin destroying the land. Mothra defends the people Battra is trying to destroy for ruining the earth. She sees something in them Battra doesn't. It's a little self defusing but I think that gives both monsters character.

Then Godzilla comes in - who's the real bad guy. But then I'm sure you can say he's just doing what he needs to do as well. That's why they don't kill him, just throw him in the ocean. They learn to live and let live, even though Battra dies anyway.

But maybe I'm looking too deeply in a Heisei film. I'm just saying at a certiain level it could have made sense. But technically I don't think either larva or adult Battra look that great.

[TokyoVigilante]

I thought the whole backstory of the Cosmos/Ancient Civilization/Mothra/Battra thing was poorly explained and horribly contrived. But there's still alot going on just strictly with their defined roles, as Tyler explained.

Battra is my favorite Heisei monster, particularly the Larva form.

[Ethan]

I have no use for Battra. Just a stiff amalgamation of Mothra and Megalon, and Rodan if you consider the roar.

[KaneLocke]

Just because a concept is unoriginal doesn't make it a bad concept.

When it's Battra, then it's a bad concept.

Ya wanna make statements like that, I suggest providing proof.

You have an armored, semi-upright centipede... thing... with a giant horn on it's head in it's larval form, and then a giant insect gumbo in his adult form. How, exactly, is it a bad concept?

[Legion1979]

You have an armored, semi-upright centipede... thing... with a giant horn on it's head in it's larval form, and then a giant insect gumbo in his adult form. How, exactly, is it a bad concept?

Cause it's just NegaMothra...?

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Ya wanna make statements like that, I suggest providing proof.

I did. Multiple times.

Battra is just a dark version of Mothra...and that's all we learn about him. The character is hardly explored in the film, and is only there to give Mothra something to fight. The design is...okay, but not the best I've seen. Overall, its just a forgettable character in a terrible film.

Battra is Mothra, only darker. That's not new. Hell, even if it were new, that's doesn't stop Battra from being a complete waste.

You have an armored, semi-upright centipede... thing... with a giant horn on it's head in it's larval form, and then a giant insect gumbo in his adult form. How, exactly, is it a bad concept?

That doesn't stop Battra from being exactly like Mothra in concept. To me, the look means nothing if the monster isn't interesting. Battra is not interesting, because his concept is unoriginal and we learn nothing about him in the film other than the obvious. There's more to a monster than just its looks.

[JVM]

GXG, the words "unoriginal" and "uninteresting" are not synonyms in my Thesaurus.

You're looking at it too critically really. I disliked the movie but I think the unoriginality of Battra is, in itself, what makes him an interesting character. Mechagodzilla isn't original, hell, King Ghidorah isn't original. Yet they're both hallmark characters in the franchise. A three-headed dragon from space. A giant beetle from underground. A robot version of Godzilla. A Godzilla from space. A mean version of Mothra. Hell, Mothra herself is just a giant moth. We're not exactly talking about ONE unoriginal monster in a group of amazing originals.

You're just coming back to the same argument that because he's unoriginal he's uninteresting. That's an opinion-based statement really.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

GXG, the words "unoriginal" and "uninteresting" are not synonyms in my Thesaurus.

Um...okay. I don't care. Those are still two of the best words I can think of to describe Battra.

You're looking at it too critically really.

Obviously not, if others like Crocodile and Cimmerian Dragon agree with me.

BTW, in case you haven't figured it out by now, I want to look at this critically.

Mechagodzilla isn't original, hell, King Ghidorah isn't original.

...What? Okay, I completely disagree with you on that. I find MecahGodzilla and King Ghidorah to be original. They may not be the first robot clones or dragons from space, but their individual concepts are both original and interesting (or at least more original and interesting that Battra's)

You're just coming back to the same argument that because he's unoriginal he's uninteresting.

Yeah. So what? It works.

That's an opinion-based statement really.

Oh good lord, please don't tell me you're starting up the "You need to put "IMO" or "I think" before your opinion, or else it comes off as trying to state a fact" argument again.

Of course its my opinion, JVM. What else can I say about Battra besides my opinion?

[JVM]

Obviously not, if others like Crocodile and Cimmerian Dragon agree with me.

BTW, in case you haven't figured it out by now, I want to look at this critically.

Why? What's the interest in beating up the movie?

...What? Okay, I completely disagree with you on that. I find MecahGodzilla and King Ghidorah to be original. They may not be the first robot clones or dragons from space, but their individual concepts are both original and interesting (or at least more original and interesting that Battra's)

Again, you're combining the meanings of the two words. MechaGodzilla and King Ghidorah are both very interesting - but it doesn't make them original. MechaGodzilla is no more original than Battra but is executed far better, making him a much more interesting monster. But when you cut it down, they're both "with a twist!" monsters and thus unoriginal, regardless of actual quality.

Oh good lord, please don't tell me you're starting up the "You need to put "IMO" or "I think" before your opinion, or else it comes off as trying to state a fact" argument again.

The fact you saw this coming I genuinely find an honor. Sig'd

[Space Hunter M]

I loved Battra (Larval Only!), didn't care too much for his film (Except for said the larva's battle with Godzilla).

[therealmccoy]

I almost wish that he would've stayed a giant caterpillar, even though it probablt never would've worked in the movie. The adult form wasn't that bad IMO, but I thought he looked alot better in the larval stage. I know it sounds nuts, but I kind of liked the "waddle" movement, too.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Why? What's the interest in beating up the movie?

Its fun.

Again, you're combining the meanings of the two words. MechaGodzilla and King Ghidorah are both very interesting - but it doesn't make them original. MechaGodzilla is no more original than Battra but is executed far better, making him a much more interesting monster. But when you cut it down, they're both "with a twist!" monsters and thus unoriginal, regardless of actual quality.

A. I'm not combining my words. I simply believe that MechaGodzilla and King Ghidorah are both interesting and original.
B. How are MechaGodzilla and King Ghidorah "with a twist!" monsters?
C. You never answered my question as to how MechaGodzilla and King Ghidorah are "unoriginal".

The fact you saw this coming I genuinely find an honor. Sig'd

Jesus skreeonk christ, JVM. I don't have to put "IMO" or "I think" before my opinion. It's flipin' obvious that what I'm saying here is my opinion, and not that I'm trying to state a fact. It's incredibly skreeonk stupid if you think I should put "IMO" or "I think" before an opinion, when I clearly show that its my opinion.

If you want to go into detail about this argument, just read the Hangover, Part II topic:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4918&start=30

[Showa Gyaos]

I like Battra. He's kinda' forgettable in my book, but that's only because the movie in which he was featured wasn't up to par.

I like his larva form.His imago not so much :/

I agree with this. The larval form is supposed to be inferior to imago. Isn't an adult more powerful than a child?

[JVM]

A. I'm not combining my words. I simply believe that MechaGodzilla and King Ghidorah are both interesting and original.
B. How are MechaGodzilla and King Ghidorah "with a twist!" monsters?
C. You never answered my question as to how MechaGodzilla and King Ghidorah are "unoriginal".

A. You are using 'uninteresting' and ''unoriginal" interchangeably
B. MechaGodzilla is Godzilla WITH A TWIST! That twist being he is a robot. Ghidorah is a dragon WITH A TWIST! The twist is three heads and from space.w
C. See above, and I said it three or four posts ago to which you said they were more interesting and therefore more original.

Jesus skreeonk christ, JVM. I don't have to put "IMO" or "I think" before my opinion. It's flipin' obvious that what I'm saying here is my opinion, and not that I'm trying to state a fact. It's incredibly skreeonk stupid if you think I should put "IMO" or "I think" before an opinion, when I clearly show that its my opinion.

I've never claimed to be intelligent. I am incredibly skreeonk stupid and have owned up to this several times before.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

You are using 'uninteresting' and ''unoriginal" interchangeably

Yeah, so what? If something like Battra is unoriginal, that makes him already uninteresting.

MechaGodzilla is Godzilla WITH A TWIST! That twist being he is a robot.

...Except that MechaGodzilla is nothing like Godzilla. At all, especially in concept.

Ghidorah is a dragon WITH A TWIST! The twist is three heads and from space.

...

...

...That is the most BS reason I've ever heard to call something "unoriginal". Going by that logic, anything that's a dragon, except for the very first dragon ever, is unoriginal. In concept, King Ghidorah is VASTLY different from "dragons". Hell, I don't even think of King Ghidorah as a dragon, at least in the typical "dragon" sense.

Seriously, what the hell?

[JVM]

Yeah, so what? If something like Battra is unoriginal, that makes him already uninteresting.

...Except that MechaGodzilla is nothing like Godzilla. At all, especially in concept.

...You're telling me MechaGodzilla is nothing like Godzilla?

...

...

...That is the most BS reason I've ever heard to call something "unoriginal". Going by that logic, anything that's a dragon, except for the very first dragon ever, is unoriginal.

Good to see you understand my logic then.

In concept, King Ghidorah is VASTLY different from "dragons". Hell, I don't even think of King Ghidorah as a dragon, at least in the typical "dragon" sense.

Seriously, what the hell?

What would you call King Ghidorah then? A giant, golden three-headed what exactly?

[Ethan]

[img]What%20would%20you%20call%20King%20Ghidorah%20then?%20A%20giant,%20golden%20three-headed%20what%20exactly?[/img]
It's mostly inspired by Yamata-no-Orochi which is an eight headed snake, not a dragon. The heads are also reminiscent of various demons from the Japanese folklore, which again, are not dragons.

[Tyler]

I know it sounds nuts, but I kind of liked the "waddle" movement, too.

That's what kills it for me. The suit just looks hollow even though there's a guy inside struggling to make it move around.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

...You're telling me MechaGodzilla is nothing like Godzilla?

...Yes. Was MechaGodzilla created by an atomic explosion? Is Godzilla always being controlled by space aliens/humans? Can Godzilla shot missiles and lasers out of his eyes, feet, hands, etc.? Is MechaGodzilla symbolic of the fears of nuclear annihilation?

Again, MechaGodzilla and Godzilla are nothing a like. Just because they both have "Godzilla" in their name, doesn't mean that damn thing. That's like saying that The Martian Manhunter is Superman, but with a twist, because they both have "Man" in their name. Or that Pardon The Interruption is The Tramp, but with a twist, because they both have "The" in their name. That is some seriously messed up and flawed logic.

Good to see you understand my logic then.

Except that I don't agree with that logic at all, because its face palm worthy.

What would you call King Ghidorah then? A giant, golden three-headed what exactly?

I'll agree with Ethan on this. He says it perfectly.