Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

[kpa]

If they're was a third ( I know they're isn't gonna be) do u think any other monsters would return other than G and MG?

I always find questions like this rather odd, because it's asking about a movie that was never going to be made. There were no plans for a "Kiryu trilogy"... during the production of TOKYO SOS, Masaaki Tezuka and Shogo Tomiyama both said that was the end of the story. So going over story ideas for a Part 3 that Toho never planned for is just fan fiction, and as fan fiction it can be whatever story and use whatever monsters you want.

(I always kind of assumed Kiryu to be the living Godzilla's former mate, actually. It's refusal to fight, it's relatively painless final plan to bind them together and return to the ocean, all suggested as much to me. Could also be a parent, but without another one around...ugh. I don't want any more hermaphroditic Godzillas.)

I don't recall if its official or not, but Tezuka said the two Godzillas were father and son. I don't think there's anything implying G54 was a hermaphrodite... no one was aware that the modern Godzilla even existed until it came ashore at the start of GxMG, which just sets up that mankind doesn't know if/how many more Godzillas may be lurking out at sea. The characters assumed there was only one and they were wrong so I wouldn't make the same mistake and assume there were only two.

[SuperSaiyan4Godzilla]

Watching the films, I came to the conclusion that Kiryu is Godzilla. Sure, we have the flesh-and-blood Godzilla that lumbers around, but I always found Kiryu to be more Godzilla than the lumbering beast we're given.

These two films are my favorite Godzilla films probably. I like how the universe is set up, the Godzilla mythos is spun extremely well. It feels...real.

[Giga Kaiju]

Watching the films, I came to the conclusion that Kiryu is Godzilla. Sure, we have the flesh-and-blood Godzilla that lumbers around, but I always found Kiryu to be more Godzilla than the lumbering beast we're given.

These two films are my favorite Godzilla films probably. I like how the universe is set up, the Godzilla mythos is spun extremely well. It feels...real.

Thats the aspect that i like about the film and Tokyo S.O.S, how it recognises other Toho films
and make it so that is a little bit like the Showa series.

Score,Acting,Special Efects, everything Perfect.

[KaneLocke]

... you sure do possess an odd definition of 'perfect...'

[Giga Kaiju]

Well Maybe not that perfect but at least Really Awesome.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Watching the films, I came to the conclusion that Kiryu is Godzilla. Sure, we have the flesh-and-blood Godzilla that lumbers around, but I always found Kiryu to be more Godzilla than the lumbering beast we're given.

These two films are my favorite Godzilla films probably. I like how the universe is set up, the Godzilla mythos is spun extremely well. It feels...real.

Thats the aspect that i like about the film and Tokyo S.O.S, how it recognises other Toho films
and make it so that is a little bit like the Showa series.

Score,Acting,Special Efects, everything Perfect.

There is no such thing as "perfect" in film. There's always going to be a flaw in at least aspect of any and all films, especially in Godzilla X MechaGodzilla and Godzilla: Tokyo SOS.

[Biollante]

Maybe it's perfect from his perspective/standards.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Maybe it's perfect from his perspective/standards.

A "perfect film" implies that its a film that nobody can think of anything bad about it. There's always going to be some person out there to point out a film's flaws, which other people can then think about. Therefore, there is no such thing as a "perfect film". And if there were a perfect film, it sure wouldn't be Godzilla X MechaGodzilla.

If he thinks its a perfect film, then fine. But, he should at least know what other people say is wrong about the film. Like the many one-dimensional bland characters (except Akana), and the story forgetting about what the audience is here to see.

[shinmattiathekaiju]

Godzilla X MechaGodzilla is okay. It's not good, but it's not bad either. Akana is the only interesting character in the entire film, where everyone else is incredibly boring. The story, while different from most Godzilla stories, is not an interesting one and at times focuses too much on Akana, and not enough on Godzilla. I will say that it feels like the most realistic Godzilla film, but that can hurt the film as well, because I enjoy it when Godzilla goes into the implausible zone, which this film never pulls off well.

Because today's audience hates the implausible zone.

[tymon]

Because today's audience hates the implausible zone.

Wow, today's audiences must be gullible and stupid as all hell to think anything they're watching is "plausible".

[Chris55]

Because today's audience hates the implausible zone.

Wow, today's audiences must be gullible and stupid as all hell to think anything they're watching is "plausible".

Wait, wait, wait..so..Superman ISN'T real?

[SuperSaiyan4Godzilla]

Because today's audience hates the implausible zone.

Wow, today's audiences must be gullible and stupid as all hell to think anything they're watching is "plausible".

There's a certain amount of verisimilitude that goes with today's movies that past Godzilla films don't really have.

Inception is a crazy-ass film that is the least plausible film to come out in awhile. Yet, everyone loves it. Why? Because the writing was good and it had a bit of verisimilitude. You can make a ridiculous idea plausible with good writing.

And good writing is something the Godzilla films really don't have.

[Giga Kaiju]

Because today's audience hates the implausible zone.

Wow, today's audiences must be gullible and stupid as all hell to think anything they're watching is "plausible".

There's a certain amount of verisimilitude that goes with today's movies that past Godzilla films don't really have.

Inception is a crazy-ass film that is the least plausible film to come out in awhile. Yet, everyone loves it. Why? Because the writing was good and it had a bit of verisimilitude. You can make a ridiculous idea plausible with good writing.

And good writing is something the Godzilla films really don't have.

Inception was really good i thought the movie was a Blast a lot different from the summerblock films like Transformers,Etc.

I agree.

[shinmattiathekaiju]

Because today's audience hates the implausible zone.

Wow, today's audiences must be gullible and stupid as all hell to think anything they're watching is "plausible".

There's a certain amount of verisimilitude that goes with today's movies that past Godzilla films don't really have.

Inception is a crazy-ass film that is the least plausible film to come out in awhile. Yet, everyone loves it. Why? Because the writing was good and it had a bit of verisimilitude. You can make a ridiculous idea plausible with good writing.

And good writing is something the Godzilla films really don't have.

Except Gojira,the 60's movies,the first three heisei movies + Destroyah,GMK and the Kiryu movies.

[omgitsgodzilla]

Because today's audience hates the implausible zone.

Wow, today's audiences must be gullible and stupid as all hell to think anything they're watching is "plausible".

There's a certain amount of verisimilitude that goes with today's movies that past Godzilla films don't really have.

Inception is a crazy-ass film that is the least plausible film to come out in awhile. Yet, everyone loves it. Why? Because the writing was good and it had a bit of verisimilitude. You can make a ridiculous idea plausible with good writing.

And good writing is something the Godzilla films really don't have.

Inception got away with it because everything surreal occurred in a dream. The only real stretch was people being able to meet - presumably with some good old Hollywood science - in the same dream.

[SuperSaiyan4Godzilla]

Except Gojira,the 60's movies,the first three heisei movies + Destroyah,GMK and the Kiryu movies.

The 60s had spotty writing. You had films like Mothra vs Godzilla with solid writing, but the following film rehashed the Shobijin plot. Even the hotel scene was rehashed. Godzilla vs Monster Zero had an okay plot. The dialogue wasn't that fantastic. Some of the characters and relationships were poorly developed. Godzilla vs the Sea Monster had good writing. The characters were interesting, Mothra's addition was an interesting twist. It was nice seeing the Shobijin not being kidnapped. Son of Godzilla was good. Nothing to really add there. Destroy All Monsters has long, boring streaks in it where the characterization was lacking and the plot turned boring. Godzilla's Revenge is a good children's film and has good writing for one. My issues with the film is in its execution, not plot.

The Return of Godzilla and Godzilla vs. Biollante are well written films. Godzilla vs King Ghidorah is a slapdash film. Good special effects for the most part, horribly written plot. Godzilla vs Destoroyah is well written, but most of it issues follow the previous movies' examples: poor spfx and movie knock offs.

GMK's writing is decent. It characterizes the monsters and characters in some new, interesting ways. However, characters like Yuki are just bad. She's too archetypal and feels like a cut-out character rather than an actual character. Her friend with the glasses was interesting. The people in the BS station were more interesting than her. Her father was more interesting than her. When your main character isn't compelling or interesting, we have an issue with the writing.

Will I say that the Kiryu Saga has the BEST writing in the series? No. Will I say its the best we've got recently? Maybe. The characters are interesting for the most part. They are a little cliche but they all mix well. Where the good writing lies is in the world. Godzilla films -and most films in general- tend to fail at creating a world around it. When you create a world around your characters and actions, you enter another level. In the lesser quality Godzilla films, the movies feel episodic and that these are isolated events. Monsters fight and the world goes back to normal. Nothing actually happens. In the films with good writing, you can see and feel the presence these monsters have. Mothra vs Godzilla, you see the fear that Godzilla produces. In the Kiryu Saga, you can see the world's astonishment when another Godzilla appears. Something happens and you can see and feel it.

Sunnydale Syndrome works in some cases and fails in others. For the Godzilla films, it really detracts from the stories.

[Ethan]

Maybe it's perfect from his perspective/standards.

A "perfect film" implies that its a film that nobody can think of anything bad about it. There's always going to be some person out there to point out a film's flaws, which other people can then think about. Therefore, there is no such thing as a "perfect film". And if there were a perfect film, it sure wouldn't be Godzilla X MechaGodzilla.

If he thinks its a perfect film, then fine. But, he should at least know what other people say is wrong about the film. Like the many one-dimensional bland characters (except Akana), and the story forgetting about what the audience is here to see.

I think a perfect film isn't one without flaws. Rather it's one that is so masterfully put together that the viewer doesn't see/care about the flaws. Such films do exist. Granted only Gojira fits into this category as far as the franchise is concerned.

[tymon]

Wait, wait, wait..so..Superman ISN'T real?

Fact: Superman is more plausible than Batman.

First person to explain why gets a cookie.

[SuperSaiyan4Godzilla]

Wait, wait, wait..so..Superman ISN'T real?

Fact: Superman is more plausible than Batman.

First person to explain why gets a cookie.

Does it have to do with The Science of Superman by Mark Wolverton? I've yet to read Becoming Batman, but from what I skimmed through...Batman is just a pain in the ass to become.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Maybe it's perfect from his perspective/standards.

A "perfect film" implies that its a film that nobody can think of anything bad about it. There's always going to be some person out there to point out a film's flaws, which other people can then think about. Therefore, there is no such thing as a "perfect film". And if there were a perfect film, it sure wouldn't be Godzilla X MechaGodzilla.

If he thinks its a perfect film, then fine. But, he should at least know what other people say is wrong about the film. Like the many one-dimensional bland characters (except Akana), and the story forgetting about what the audience is here to see.

I think a perfect film isn't one without flaws. Rather it's one that is so masterfully put together that the viewer doesn't see/care about the flaws. Such films do exist. Granted only Gojira fits into this category as far as the franchise is concerned.

Well, even going by that, there's going to be someone out there that will say that a film isn't so masterfully put together and they do manage to find obvious flaws.

For example, my favorite film of all time is Apocalypse Now. Do I think its a perfect film? No, the film has its flaws. To me, the same can be said for every film. So, I believe that there is no such thing as a "perfect film".

As for the Godzilla films with the best writing, I think that the most well-written Godzilla films are Mothra vs. Godzilla and Son Of Godzilla. Both are able to make the human plot just as interesting as the monster plot, while also making the monsters actual characters in the film, rather than just an element of the plot. There are other Godzilla films that do that, but Mothra vs. Godzilla and Son Of Godzilla pull it off the best. Other well-written Godzilla films are Ebirah, Horror Of The Deep, Gojira and Godzilla vs. Biollante.