Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

For the discussion of the Legendary Pictures MonsterVerse. This includes Godzilla (2014), Kong: Skull Island and any upcoming films under the MonsterVerse umbrella.
Forum rules
Please be sure to read the subforum sticky "Regarding: Monsterverse Leaks & Unofficial Photos [Updated 7/13/2018]", linked below. Thank you!

https://www.tohokingdom.com/forum/viewt ... &p=1472505
User avatar
_JNavs_
Keizer
Posts: 9647
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:59 pm
Location: New York

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by _JNavs_ »

To be fair ROTF was a hilarious movie, like Michael Bay said F it, everybody be yourselves and pyrotechnics blow everything up.

Plenty of memorable scenes in that movie.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
____________________________ImageImage___________________________
Instagram: @Lord.Gojira

User avatar
MechaGoji Bro7503
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6117
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:02 pm
Location: Black Hole Planet 3 branch of Majima Construction.
Contact:

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by MechaGoji Bro7503 »

_JNavs_ wrote:To be fair ROTF was a hilarious movie, like Michael Bay said F it, everybody be yourselves and pyrotechnics blow everything up.

Plenty of memorable scenes in that movie.
All I remember is being severely disappointed like all the other Bay films, only Jet Fire was done somewhat right in ROTF.
"Bang on, mate.", - Murdoc Niccals 2018.

"Right, wrong... Nobody's got a clue what the difference is in this town. So I'm gonna have more fun... and live crazier than any of 'em." - Goro Majima.

Our G-Force a Kaiju Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/g ... 1509725595

For unique discussions on Ultraman, Godzilla, and much more check out my channel Tiger Drop Films: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCng0uL ... VCg/videos

User avatar
_JNavs_
Keizer
Posts: 9647
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:59 pm
Location: New York

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by _JNavs_ »

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:
_JNavs_ wrote:To be fair ROTF was a hilarious movie, like Michael Bay said F it, everybody be yourselves and pyrotechnics blow everything up.

Plenty of memorable scenes in that movie.
All I remember is being severely disappointed like all the other Bay films, only Jet Fire was done somewhat right in ROTF.
It really depends on where you where at during it's release, like at the time, kids my age were just hyped to see transformers, Megan the Fox, and Shia Laboeuf act like a lunatic (great stuff mind you). Plus the third wheel conspiracy guy, Leo, and the Ex-FBI guy who worked in the Pastrami shop had great chemistry, with one of my favorite moments being their very first exchange in said Pastrami shop. Now to be fair, it really isn't a good "Transformers" movie by any means, which we all know, but the actors definitely had tons of fun with the script and it showed in the final product, which is mainly why I enjoy the film so much.

And to reconnect this to the topic, the Monsterverse isn't doomed, but if it was, Shia would save the franchise.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
____________________________ImageImage___________________________
Instagram: @Lord.Gojira

User avatar
miguelnuva
Justiriser
Posts: 18349
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:32 pm

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by miguelnuva »

The monsterverse had 1 underperformer after two successful films, it isn't doomed till after Godzilla vs Kong if that films underpeforms.
Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira

Shadow Area 1-0
Image Image

User avatar
Godzillabrawler
Monarch Researcher
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Thrashburg

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by Godzillabrawler »

UltramanGoji wrote:[...] It wasn't a case of "what else is there to do", it was a case of "what is there to do that can be better than Godzilla vs. Kong".

None of that is anywhere near as hype-worthy as GvK. [...]
I know this is an older post, but "Destroy All Monsters" has name recognition at least amongst folks older than me, people in my dad's generation (40's to late 50's age range). Godzilla vs Kong is one potential endgame, but DAM in concept alone plus the name is probably a safe bet. It'd be more akin to Avengers than GvK, which strikes me as more Batman vs Superman.

I honestly think Ultraman and Gamera could be successful, or at least Gamera, given that even if no one knows who they are really, a lot of people at least recognize the giant turtle monster. Ultraman is often referenced by that same older generation, they always mistake Jet Jaguar and him for the same person. Unfortunately I think they're both impossible given Toho's involvement, although I'd love to be wrong.

Sorry if the current conversation in the thread has deviated from this, just wanted to interject my two cents.
Last edited by Godzillabrawler on Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
"There's two things you don't know about the Earth. One is me. And the other is... Godzilla."

User avatar
Ivo-goji
EDF Instructor
Posts: 2818
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:54 am

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by Ivo-goji »

KotM performed reasonably well in a summer suffering from extreme blockbuster fatigue. If anything it proved the franchise has better legs than we would have thought.
Resized Image
Kaiju-King42 wrote: Welcome to Toho Kingdom, where every conceivable opinion, no matter how outlandish or unpopular, is a possibility among the population.

User avatar
GuardianGhido
JXSDF Technician
Posts: 908
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:05 am

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by GuardianGhido »

Ivo-goji wrote:KotM performed reasonably well in a summer suffering from extreme blockbuster fatigue. If anything it proved the franchise has better legs than we would have thought.
That's a pretty nice way to look at it. The movie had some bad marketing and even worse timing and yet managed to draw enough of a crowd to almost make it to the 400 million range with black holes like Endgame and Aladdin around. I hearrd the movie managed to break even too, which (if true) is a huge relief compared to our thoughts on the BO situation early on. I'm definitely hoping GvK can right the ship for the MV to continue its smooth sailing. I'd really prefer if the MCU wasn't the only successful shared universe.
Last edited by GuardianGhido on Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
DirektorSplennic wrote:Mr Goji, eabaker, and LSD are like the (un)Holy Trinity of Kaiju Kino.

User avatar
miguelnuva
Justiriser
Posts: 18349
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:32 pm

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by miguelnuva »

Kotm didn't do well but as I said. Two huge movies before it and 4 huge movies after it, I want to see Godzilla vs Kong's numbers before we write off the MV.
Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira

Shadow Area 1-0
Image Image

User avatar
Rhedosaurus
JXSDF Technician
Posts: 1010
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:55 am

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by Rhedosaurus »

Now that I think about it, my answer has to be yes simply because of how Legendary has been terrible when it comes to time with the Godzillaverse after Godzilla 2014. Here's my conversation with Cookson via the GvK Rumor Thread via proof of that.
Rhedosaurus wrote:
Cookson wrote:
Rhedosaurus wrote:
If anything else, the fact that it came out 5 years after Godzilla 2014 was what really crippled the movie. I still say that if it came out in 2017 instead of K:SI and if K:SI came out this year, then we wouldn't be talking about GvK being the end of the Godzillaverse.
The way the entire Monsterverse has developed after G14 is weird. Kong Skull Island was originally its own thing, not part of the Monsterverse and was scheduled for a 2016 release. Godzilla 2 was going to be a summer 2018 with Gareth Edwards directing. Gareth stepped down and eventually came a May 2019 film. Now we have the GvsKong stuff.

Don’t know if it would have been possible to get G2 in 2017 with the cards they had.

And the ironic thing is, Kong: Skull Island fells more like a stand alone movie then part of the Godzillaverse, even with Godzilla's roar the end of the credits.

Legendary really was NOT good with timing when it came to releasing Godzillaverse movies after Godzilla 2014, let along which ones to release, weren't they?

User avatar
_JNavs_
Keizer
Posts: 9647
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:59 pm
Location: New York

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by _JNavs_ »

I'm just trying to figure out how 4 films in the span of 7 years could be spun into "Legendary is terrible with timing"
____________________________ImageImage___________________________
Instagram: @Lord.Gojira

User avatar
Rhedosaurus
JXSDF Technician
Posts: 1010
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:55 am

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by Rhedosaurus »

_JNavs_ wrote:I'm just trying to figure out how 4 films in the span of 7 years could be spun into "Legendary is terrible with timing"
In large part, because of the following.

1. K:SI winded up being more like a stand alone movie then part of the Godzillaverse.

2. KOTM came out 5 years after Godzilla 2014. And between the MCU carpet bombing the GA with hit after hit, many people having short attention spans nowadays, and my first point, it was easy to people to forget/not care about this movie.

3. Now this GvK being delay via reshoots, which in turn means that it will cost more, not only that, but who knows what is going to happen between now and then. For all we know, China can pull a Tienanmen Square in Hong Kong which will result in a backlash that causes this movie to tank like how the NBA's rating are down, in part because of how many players and coaches supported the Chinese government.

User avatar
kaijuguy19
Monarch Researcher
Posts: 357
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:06 pm

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by kaijuguy19 »

So with GvK being delayed till November next year which leaves it to compete with both Eternals and Raya from Disney and Clifford the Big Red Dog, I think it's a safe bet that the Monsterverse is now doomed for sure if it wasn't before. Really would've wanted it to last but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

At this point I think it would've been best if Legendary never attempted the Monsterverse to begin with and just stuck with just doing a Godzilla trilogy with Edwards doing all three with no Kong to fight again because if there's anything I've learned form all this it's that the Monsterverse is yet another botched attempt at doing a cinematic universe. Besides the GA love the 2014 Godzilla movie in the end anyway so it would've been best to build upon that instead of doing what KOTM did which drove GA away ultimately....
Last edited by kaijuguy19 on Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:02 am, edited 3 times in total.
Why am I always chasing rainbows?

User avatar
_JNavs_
Keizer
Posts: 9647
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:59 pm
Location: New York

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by _JNavs_ »

"It's another botched attempt at a cinematic universe"

550mill+ for their first 2 films
385mill+ for KOTM
Godzilla vs King Kong delayed to deliver an A+ film due to their stumble with KOTM

I'm not following the thought process here.

Added in 1 minute 3 seconds:
Rhedosaurus wrote:
_JNavs_ wrote:I'm just trying to figure out how 4 films in the span of 7 years could be spun into "Legendary is terrible with timing"
In large part, because of the following.

1. K:SI winded up being more like a stand alone movie then part of the Godzillaverse.

2. KOTM came out 5 years after Godzilla 2014. And between the MCU carpet bombing the GA with hit after hit, many people having short attention spans nowadays, and my first point, it was easy to people to forget/not care about this movie.

3. Now this GvK being delay via reshoots, which in turn means that it will cost more, not only that, but who knows what is going to happen between now and then. For all we know, China can pull a Tienanmen Square in Hong Kong which will result in a backlash that causes this movie to tank like how the NBA's rating are down, in part because of how many players and coaches supported the Chinese government.
1. That's how a Kong film in the Godzillaverse should be done, standalone.

2. I agree

3. Mehhh maybe
____________________________ImageImage___________________________
Instagram: @Lord.Gojira

User avatar
miguelnuva
Justiriser
Posts: 18349
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:32 pm

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by miguelnuva »

Everyone here does know that KOTM only unperformed because the budget was ridiculous. Nearly 400m WW shows Godzilla is still a draw to a degree and that's with heavy competition.
Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira

Shadow Area 1-0
Image Image

User avatar
GodzillaFan1990's
Sazer
Posts: 12275
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:11 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by GodzillaFan1990's »

miguelnuva wrote:Everyone here does know that KOTM only unperformed because the budget was ridiculous. Nearly 400m WW shows Godzilla is still a draw to a degree and that's with heavy competition.
Also the competition and 5 year gap.
Last edited by GodzillaFan1990's on Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
UltramanGoji
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 17719
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:40 am

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by UltramanGoji »

miguelnuva wrote:Everyone here does know that KOTM only unperformed because the budget was ridiculous.
How many times has the narrative changed?

First it was "too much competition", then it was "not enough marketing", now it's "the budget was too big".

Have you guys ever considered that maybe it underperformed because word of mouth, and by extension the film, just wasn't that good?
Image

User avatar
Tohosaurus
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4978
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:35 pm

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by Tohosaurus »

Critical reception towards modern giant monster movies is different than something like various 1970s Godzilla or Gamera movies. King Kong, Cloverfield, Monsters, Trollhunter, Colossal, Pacific Rim (#1), Shin Godzilla, Kong, and Godzilla (Legendary's #1) all had solid reception. None were thought of as The Dark Knight level, but then few things are.
miguelnuva wrote:Everyone here does know that KOTM only unperformed because the budget was ridiculous. Nearly 400m WW shows Godzilla is still a draw to a degree and that's with heavy competition.
I totally agree nearly $400 million shows that Godzilla is a draw. I wouldn't say the budget was too big though. It was in line with a movie of that caliber. Sure they could've done the movie for $125 million but things like effects and scale would've been diminished.
고질라

한국, 일본: 친교

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. -Ian Maclaren

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 14254
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

UltramanGoji wrote:
miguelnuva wrote:Everyone here does know that KOTM only unperformed because the budget was ridiculous.
How many times has the narrative changed?

First it was "too much competition", then it was "not enough marketing", now it's "the budget was too big".

Have you guys ever considered that maybe it underperformed because word of mouth, and by extension the film, just wasn't that good?
No man, it's clearly a Disney conspiracy.

The other thing that annoys me about this thread, is that DOOM is such a dumb term. 4 movies, in the olden days, is a successful franchise. Most film series would kill for a trilogy. It's just that we now live in this dumb modern era where unless something has 20 sequels its a failure.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

User avatar
Gigantis
Sazer
Posts: 10492
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Location: Nebula of the Orion

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by Gigantis »

UltramanGoji wrote:
miguelnuva wrote:Everyone here does know that KOTM only unperformed because the budget was ridiculous.
How many times has the narrative changed?

First it was "too much competition", then it was "not enough marketing", now it's "the budget was too big".

Have you guys ever considered that maybe it underperformed because word of mouth, and by extension the film, just wasn't that good?
You sure it wasn't all of the above? It had to compete with some of the highest grossing films this year, the budget was just skreoonking ridiculous, If anything it marketed itself too early (like releasing the trailer 11 months before the film) AND it wasn't well liked by some critics, GA people and even some fans.
Image

A guy who randomly stumbled upon this place one day, invested much too much time into it, and now appears to be stuck here for all eternity..and strangely enough, i do not regret it!

User avatar
miguelnuva
Justiriser
Posts: 18349
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:32 pm

Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Post by miguelnuva »

UltramanGoji wrote:
miguelnuva wrote:Everyone here does know that KOTM only unperformed because the budget was ridiculous.
How many times has the narrative changed?

First it was "too much competition", then it was "not enough marketing", now it's "the budget was too big".

Have you guys ever considered that maybe it underperformed because word of mouth, and by extension the film, just wasn't that good?
It was huge competition and the budget being so large. This is not just a Godzilla problem as well. Endgame made nearly 3B and it had a small profit gain than Joker. I have always maintained these were the two main reasoms.

Kotm's word of mouth was mixed to positive. It was a little more negative then the first two films but not drastically so.

Looking at all three monsterverse films and what happened to everything else this summer competition was a huge factor.
Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira

Shadow Area 1-0
Image Image

Post Reply