The Official Star Wars Saga Thread

[ROMG4]

TLJ discussion

Spoiler:

Nope, nope, I can resist complaing about

Never mind. I don't even care about it's lore decisions anymore. The movie is absolutely insufferable to me because of its narrative structure alone, I cannot STAND how poorly written and developed the characters and plot are. Let alone the sheer frothing stupidity of the space scenes

Ebaker my old friend please tell me the secret of how you like the movie. I need answers for 2 years I have tried and failed show me the way

[eabaker]

Ebaker my old friend please tell me the secret of how you like the movie. I need answers for 2 years I have tried and failed show me the way

I really wish I could help you out with this. It bums me out that there's this huge piece of Star Wars that so many fans find so utterly alienating. But... I don't know what to tell you. For me, it worked right from the first viewing.

I do recognize some structural problems (I think it drags most around the 1/3 mark), and there are some threads that don't really tie together properly (the resolution of the Rose/Finn stuff doesn't feel thematically supported by the rest of the movie), but the things that work for me - most notably the handling of Luke - just feel like authentic, new Star Wars in a way that nothing has (for me) since 1983.

[_JNavs_]

Okay kids, what do we think....

Kevin Feige has been tapped to develop a new Star Wars film:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat- ... ey-1243481

It's a bit late now... Maybe he will change the tide but right now Star Wars is in such a S**T show it'll take a lot to bring me around.

100%, completely agree.

Added in 2 minutes 16 seconds:

TLJ discussion

Nope, nope, I can resist complaing about

Never mind. I don't even care about it's lore decisions anymore. The movie is absolutely insufferable to me because of its narrative structure alone, I cannot STAND how poorly written and developed the characters and plot are. Let alone the sheer frothing stupidity of the space scenes

I've had the same complaints as you, I don't understand how they've managed to make every character in these new films feel like artificial shells just spouting dialogue to move to the next scene. The space scenes, while not my biggest gripe, are certainly ridiculous considering the circumstances.

[Zarm]

I would like to see this empirical evidence.

My dianoga ate it.

They do have a nasty habit of doing that.

[Rhedosaurus]

It looks like Kevin Feige producing a Star Wars movie=more ammo against KK.

[eabaker]

JJ Abrams says, “Some people feel like we shouldn’t revisit the idea of Palpatine, and I completely understand that. But if you’re looking at these nine films as one story, I don’t know many books where the last few chapters have nothing to do with those that have come before."

I say, "Perhaps someone could explain to J.J. Abrams how multigenerational epics work. In the later chapters of Claudius the God, Robert Graves didn’t see any need to resurrect Livia."

[_JNavs_]

JJ Abrams says, “Some people feel like we shouldn’t revisit the idea of Palpatine, and I completely understand that. But if you’re looking at these nine films as one story, I don’t know many books where the last few chapters have nothing to do with those that have come before."

I say, "Perhaps someone could explain to J.J. Abrams how multigenerational epics work. In the later chapters of Claudius the God, Robert Graves didn’t see any need to resurrect Livia."

Yeah I don't know why he'd say that, one story can cohesively streamline into another pretty easily. Plus it would make the most sense being that the SW galaxy/lore is so massive.

[Rhedosaurus]

JJ Abrams says, “Some people feel like we shouldn’t revisit the idea of Palpatine, and I completely understand that. But if you’re looking at these nine films as one story, I don’t know many books where the last few chapters have nothing to do with those that have come before."

I say, "Perhaps someone could explain to J.J. Abrams how multigenerational epics work. In the later chapters of Claudius the God, Robert Graves didn’t see any need to resurrect Livia."

If you're talking about the rumor of Palpatine coming back to be the big bad of the sequel trilogy, it would be because it would make Anakin's/Vader's sacrifice utterly meaningless.

[eabaker]

JJ Abrams says, “Some people feel like we shouldn’t revisit the idea of Palpatine, and I completely understand that. But if you’re looking at these nine films as one story, I don’t know many books where the last few chapters have nothing to do with those that have come before."

I say, "Perhaps someone could explain to J.J. Abrams how multigenerational epics work. In the later chapters of Claudius the God, Robert Graves didn’t see any need to resurrect Livia."

If you're talking about the rumor of Palpatine coming back to be the big bad of the sequel trilogy, it would be because it would make Anakin's/Vader's sacrifice utterly meaningless.

While that is a valid point, it's also thoroughly unrelated to my comment, so I'm not sure why you presented it as a reply to me.

[Rhedosaurus]

JJ Abrams says, “Some people feel like we shouldn’t revisit the idea of Palpatine, and I completely understand that. But if you’re looking at these nine films as one story, I don’t know many books where the last few chapters have nothing to do with those that have come before."

I say, "Perhaps someone could explain to J.J. Abrams how multigenerational epics work. In the later chapters of Claudius the God, Robert Graves didn’t see any need to resurrect Livia."

If you're talking about the rumor of Palpatine coming back to be the big bad of the sequel trilogy, it would be because it would make Anakin's/Vader's sacrifice utterly meaningless.

While that is a valid point, it's also thoroughly unrelated to my comment, so I'm not sure why you presented it as a reply to me.

Sorry, I thought that was the reason why you posted. My bad.

[eabaker]

If you're talking about the rumor of Palpatine coming back to be the big bad of the sequel trilogy, it would be because it would make Anakin's/Vader's sacrifice utterly meaningless.

While that is a valid point, it's also thoroughly unrelated to my comment, so I'm not sure why you presented it as a reply to me.

Sorry, I thought that was the reason why you posted. My bad.

No need to apologize.

And ultimately I think Abram's is mistaken if he thinks it will ever actually work as a single nine part story, because, as you point out, Anakin/Vader's sacrifice is already the most significant payoff to the major threads established in the prequels.

So far, I like the sequel trilogy, but by their nature they were always destined to feel tacked on.

[Zarm]

Absolutely. The saga was basically a closed arc.

I think that TFA/TLJ really works as a closed arc (as a friend and I were discussing yesterday, I think TLJ would work much better as a stand-alone film, with the stand-alone and un-followed-up ending being all that's said), or else as the pilot for a very LONG story about the Resistance rebuilding and a prolonged conflict. What it doesn't readily set up for is resolving the entire story in one film (although arguably, the same could be said of the ending of ESB). I think the gambit of bringing in Palpatine to try to make this *feel* like it was all a part of a bigger saga is the best way to both make the sequels feel tacked-on, and bring about a resolution to the trilogy that feels suitably grand and relevant while still working from the starting-point they've been given.

Not that I think it's necessarily a good way of accomplishing either, or will succeed in doing so- but it kind of feels like if anything can solve all the problems at once, this long-shot is the only Hail Mary Pass they've got.

But, trying to pretend it is necessary or the logical way things had to conclude would be disingenuous.

That said, reading between the lines, "I don’t know many books where the last few chapters have nothing to do with those that have come before." could actually fit in the broader context- in that the handoff between the PT and OT involved a contiguous scenario and shared characters all the way through; the hand off from OT to ST involves a non-contiguous situation (whose genesis has been largely explained by non-film materials), and the shared characters have mostly either been killed off or (in the tragic case of Carrie) are unavailable.

Now, the multigenerational epic model does not preclude a model in which, in essence, the final chapter has only the most recent generation left alive, and are running through a plot that is not an outgrowth of the primary plot of the book, but a separate tangent that came in when they did... but, presumably, it is more common for the ending, even if characters from the early generations do not return, to have a situation or storyline that has organically developed from what came before. So, in that case, I could take JJ's statement 'where the last few chapters have nothing to do with those that have come before' to mean less "Therefore we must bring back a character from the earlier generations in order to keep it relevant," but rather "Therefore we must tie the current scenario more concretely into the overall narrative so that the situation the last chapter ends on has some relevance to the whole- and a returning villain who orchestrates grand, long-term schemes happens, incidentally, to be the best way of doing that." So it's less that Palpatine is that 'something to do with what has come before,' but that he is the vehicle through which something to do with what came before can be brought in.

[eabaker]

What it doesn't readily set up for is resolving the entire story in one film (although arguably, the same could be said of the ending of ESB).

But ESB was never really designed to be that. It was movie number two, and the previous movie had itself told a complete story, so all ESB really needed to be was a sequel that left the door open to conclude its own arcs. And even viewed as part 5 of 6, that's still less preceding story to wrap up than part 8 of 9 (especially since movie 4 has already really tied up a lot of what was left over from movies 1-3).

[miguelnuva]

As far as Palpatine goes I don't argue it ruins what Anakin did for the simple fact that the EU was even worse.

In Disney Palpatine comes back but Snoke and Kylo are not sith, in the EU after Palpatine comes back 20 more sith follow him including Anakin;s own grandson. It seems George Lucas was the only real big backer of the chosen one prophecy and some of the best Star Wars stories are a result of Anakin's not fulfilling the prophecy.

Now as you all know leaks have popped up and all I'm going to say is if these leaks are true I don't see why Disney didn't just make Rey Luke's daughter and call it a day.

[gottatalktothefake]

If the leaks are true I will laugh my ass off.

It's just so bad but I don't doubt it at this point

[_JNavs_]

If the leaks are true I will laugh my ass off.

It's just so bad but I don't doubt it at this point

Yeah sadly it sounds exactly like what JJ and Kat would do to the 9th film.

There are seemingly decent moments, but the plot from start to finish reads terribly and most arcs are just wasted away.

[Xx_The_Masquerade_xX]

This pretty much sums up my feelings, but I love Palpatine so much as a character. I can forgive ruining Vader, Luke, Han and Leia and giving us piss poor new characters but touching Papa Palpatine is just to much... I will never forgive Disney if they ruin his character in Episode 9.



link to VILLAIN PUB PALPATINES BACK - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... EbulmDiDEw

[LSD Jellyfish]

No one's ever really gone.

Btw what are these leaks?

[miguelnuva]

This pretty much sums up my feelings, but I love Palpatine so much as a character. I can forgive ruining Vader, Luke, Han and Leia and giving us piss poor new characters but touching Papa Palpatine is just to much... I will never forgive Disney if they ruin his character in Episode 9.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEbulmDiDEw&t=384s[/yoube]

link to VILLAIN PUB PALPATINES BACK - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... EbulmDiDEw

They already did in the comics.

https://youtu.be/jFpTYCfLiIs

Added in 1 minute :

No one's ever really gone.

Btw what are these leaks?

If you go to world of Geekdom on YouTube you'll find the 3 acts leaked.

[Zarm]

As far as Palpatine goes I don't argue it ruins what Anakin did for the simple fact that the EU was even worse.

In Disney Palpatine comes back but Snoke and Kylo are not sith, in the EU after Palpatine comes back 20 more sith follow him including Anakin;s own grandson. It seems George Lucas was the only real big backer of the chosen one prophecy and some of the best Star Wars stories are a result of Anakin's not fulfilling the prophecy.

Now as you all know leaks have popped up and all I'm going to say is if these leaks are true I don't see why Disney didn't just make Rey Luke's daughter and call it a day.

To be fair, those* ironically only popped up in the early 2000s after the prequels came up and brought back interest in the Sith; before that, we just got a Sith ghost, and a few ordinary force-users-turned-to-the-Dark-Side. The EU showed restraint in bringing back the Sith, back when the whole idea of Anakin ending them hadn't been created; only after the Sith became marketable tie-ins did they start pouring in... just at the same time the idea that they should all be gone was introduced.

At least here, with Palpatine, the concept is well-established, so there's no excuse.


*Except, of course, for Palpatine's return, but at least even most EU fans considered that one a bad idea...