What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

[G2000]

This is me being petty, and my bias, but nothing in the movie pissed me off more than what they did to Vivianne Graham. One of my issues with 2014 is how they underused Sally Hawkins, it was clear she was written in last minute, however she was very vocal that she wanted a bigger part in the universe, and since she is an Oscar nominated actress, and just an all around fantastic, it should have been a no brainer to make her one of the faces of the franchise. Nope. She gets killed after 40 minutes, in one of the most blinks or you’ll miss it death scenes I have ever seen. Say what you want about Cranston dying, but his death made sense to the film’s message; it isn’t humanities place to mess with nature, he was trying to understand the MUTOs, which wasn’t his place so he paid the price. Very lovecraftian. However not only did his death make narrative sense, it also happened over two scenes, and he brought up several times later in the movie. Hawkins was there, and then she wasn’t, and it really killed the movie for me. It should have been her who Serizawa gave the notes to, not Mark, and it should have been her saying “this time we join the fight”. Just talk about awful writing, directing, and choices (also Dougherty laughed about her death on the commentary, and made fun of it, but that’s a whole other can of worms).

I can agree with some of your points and disagree with others but if the highlighted is true this honestly pisses me off like you wouldn't believe. I had been assuming Graham got killed off because Ms. Hawkins hadn't wanted to return for future Monsterverse installments; if what you're saying is true, that she cared about the Monsterverse enough that she had wanted to play bigger part in future films and just got arbitrarily axed like that pretty might right out of the gate, that's just outright infuriating.


Maybe there was a pay dispute or contractural obligation that didn't work out, but even if that was the reason she got killed off to do so in such an offhanded manner feels petty and insulting; and if Doughtery had just written her death scene from the get-go without any input from Ms. Hawkins herself, that would have been a huge error on his part.

[LSD Jellyfish]

After finally getting to see it on blu-ray I can confirm my major issue with the film is it is only good on the surface. If you take each scene at face value and just go with the flow, it's an enjoyable film. But if you think too much about the actions and motivations it really starts to fall apart quickly. It really leaves you questioning why things are happening, the cause and effect makes little sense.

It is like the director wanted to surprise the audience as much as possible with little things, but ends up making everything a huge mess.

Just take the whole Mothra waking up.
Mothra is awaking, the ORCA is tested and works. But bad guys show up and kill everyone, looks like they are kidnapping Emma and Maddy. On face value thats okay. But later we learn Emma is working with the bad guys, this is all done to fool the audience that is a kidnapping, so when Emma sets off the explosives in Antartica it is a shock. Why where the bad guys attacking before the ORCA was tested, how were they so ready to strike were they hiding nearby just waiting? Why would she go along with a plan that kills pretty much everyone she works with? She could have just walked out with the ORCA after it worked.

Another question is why is Godzilla headed to Antarctic after his dominance display? Ghidorah is still in ice, the ORCA was tested in China and isn't broadcasting.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak.

You're saying that KOTM makes no sense, and the characters have no actual motivation?

I never thought how it makes zero sense for Godzilla to go to Antarctic. Geez.

[Terasawa]

Why would she go along with a plan that kills pretty much everyone she works with?

This makes her heroic “redemption” at the end of the film all the more disturbing.

[Mordern_Man]

I can agree with some of your points and disagree with others but if the highlighted is true this honestly pisses me off like you wouldn't believe. I had been assuming Graham got killed off because Ms. Hawkins hadn't wanted to return for future Monsterverse installments; if what you're saying is true, that she cared about the Monsterverse enough that she had wanted to play bigger part in future films and just got arbitrarily axed like that pretty might right out of the gate, that's just outright infuriating.


Maybe there was a pay dispute or contractural obligation that didn't work out, but even if that was the reason she got killed off to do so in such an offhanded manner feels petty and insulting; and if Doughtery had just written her death scene from the get-go without any input from Ms. Hawkins herself, that would have been a huge error on his part.[/quote]


https://www.godzilla-movies.com/news/sa ... e-monsters

From listening to the movie's commentary, Doughtery acted like the killing of Sally Hawkin's character was one of his favorite choices. He mentioned that he thought it would be a great surprise to the audience because of Hawkin's status as an Oscar nominee, and show that no one is safe. The issue with that is it was done so poorly that there was no time to get attached to her character in the movie, and no time to grieve her death. Also, more importantly, it is an absolute waste of a fantastic actress, and one that could be very bankable for the franchise in the future.

So yeah, Doughtery basically screwed over a highly regarded actress, worsened his own movie, and franchise, just to mess with audiences, which didn't even really work because it was so poorly done. I had issues with the movie, but much like you, this choice soured the whole thing for me.

[BlankAccount]

I feel if Graham was alive when Serizawa went on his suicide mission she would have joined him.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I can agree with some of your points and disagree with others but if the highlighted is true this honestly pisses me off like you wouldn't believe. I had been assuming Graham got killed off because Ms. Hawkins hadn't wanted to return for future Monsterverse installments; if what you're saying is true, that she cared about the Monsterverse enough that she had wanted to play bigger part in future films and just got arbitrarily axed like that pretty might right out of the gate, that's just outright infuriating.


Maybe there was a pay dispute or contractural obligation that didn't work out, but even if that was the reason she got killed off to do so in such an offhanded manner feels petty and insulting; and if Doughtery had just written her death scene from the get-go without any input from Ms. Hawkins herself, that would have been a huge error on his part.

https://www.godzilla-movies.com/news/sa ... e-monsters

From listening to the movie's commentary, Doughtery acted like the killing of Sally Hawkin's character was one of his favorite choices. He mentioned that he thought it would be a great surprise to the audience because of Hawkin's status as an Oscar nominee, and show that no one is safe. The issue with that is it was done so poorly that there was no time to get attached to her character in the movie, and no time to grieve her death. Also, more importantly, it is an absolute waste of a fantastic actress, and one that could be very bankable for the franchise in the future.

So yeah, Doughtery basically screwed over a highly regarded actress, worsened his own movie, and franchise, just to mess with audiences, which didn't even really work because it was so poorly done. I had issues with the movie, but much like you, this choice soured the whole thing for me.[/quote]
That's dumb either way.
"let's kill off a great actress because it's UNEXPECTED"
or most likely, making excuses to cover up a poor decision.

[GuardianGhido]

I can agree with some of your points and disagree with others but if the highlighted is true this honestly pisses me off like you wouldn't believe. I had been assuming Graham got killed off because Ms. Hawkins hadn't wanted to return for future Monsterverse installments; if what you're saying is true, that she cared about the Monsterverse enough that she had wanted to play bigger part in future films and just got arbitrarily axed like that pretty might right out of the gate, that's just outright infuriating.


Maybe there was a pay dispute or contractural obligation that didn't work out, but even if that was the reason she got killed off to do so in such an offhanded manner feels petty and insulting; and if Doughtery had just written her death scene from the get-go without any input from Ms. Hawkins herself, that would have been a huge error on his part.

https://www.godzilla-movies.com/news/sa ... e-monsters

From listening to the movie's commentary, Doughtery acted like the killing of Sally Hawkin's character was one of his favorite choices. He mentioned that he thought it would be a great surprise to the audience because of Hawkin's status as an Oscar nominee, and show that no one is safe. The issue with that is it was done so poorly that there was no time to get attached to her character in the movie, and no time to grieve her death. Also, more importantly, it is an absolute waste of a fantastic actress, and one that could be very bankable for the franchise in the future.

So yeah, Doughtery basically screwed over a highly regarded actress, worsened his own movie, and franchise, just to mess with audiences, which didn't even really work because it was so poorly done. I had issues with the movie, but much like you, this choice soured the whole thing for me.

That's dumb either way.
"let's kill off a great actress because it's UNEXPECTED"
or most likely, making excuses to cover up a poor decision.[/quote]
Totally agree. This was one of the most unfathomably stupid things he did. An utter waste on par with the Anime Trilogy. Vivienne Graham was one of my most favorite characters and also one of the few human characters still linking the universe together, the poop Dougherty pulled was just a disgrace to her character and done as some sick joke. While I do praise him for the justice he did to the Kaijus and the respect he showed the franchise, his treatment of Sally Hawkins and Dr. Graham, unutilization of MBB and Charles Dance and the insultingly bad misuse of the Oxygen Destroyer are just plain terrible.

also quotes are broken again. seems to be happening often.

[szmigiel]

You're saying that KOTM makes no sense, and the characters have no actual motivation?

I never thought how it makes zero sense for Godzilla to go to Antarctic. Geez.

I kind of feel the same way as I do about the Champion Festival films of the 70's. If you just take the movie scene by scene, and don't worry too much about how everything fits together, it is enjoyable. If you look too hard at character motivation, or cause and effect, it kind of starts to fall apart.

I could do a death by a thousand cuts over the amount of little nitpicks I have with the film over all.

[daveblackeye15]

GuardianGhido I understand you finding Graham getting killed annoying and a waste.
But I got to contest your claim that she was one of your favorite characters from the previous movie.
How though?
She was mostly there to have Serisawa someone to talk to every once in a while, stammering about where they put the supposed dead Muto and do this thing with her finger in ever scene and that was about it. I really find her being anyone's favorite character dubious.
I would have preferred she survived to carry on unless the actress said she didn't want to be in the movies anymore.

[BlankAccount]

She had potential to be more but that was cut short. And from the sounds of it, the actress wanted her to be a bigger part in this universe.

[Rhedosaurus]

I can agree with some of your points and disagree with others but if the highlighted is true this honestly pisses me off like you wouldn't believe. I had been assuming Graham got killed off because Ms. Hawkins hadn't wanted to return for future Monsterverse installments; if what you're saying is true, that she cared about the Monsterverse enough that she had wanted to play bigger part in future films and just got arbitrarily axed like that pretty might right out of the gate, that's just outright infuriating.


Maybe there was a pay dispute or contractural obligation that didn't work out, but even if that was the reason she got killed off to do so in such an offhanded manner feels petty and insulting; and if Doughtery had just written her death scene from the get-go without any input from Ms. Hawkins herself, that would have been a huge error on his part.

https://www.godzilla-movies.com/news/sa ... e-monsters

From listening to the movie's commentary, Doughtery acted like the killing of Sally Hawkin's character was one of his favorite choices. He mentioned that he thought it would be a great surprise to the audience because of Hawkin's status as an Oscar nominee, and show that no one is safe. The issue with that is it was done so poorly that there was no time to get attached to her character in the movie, and no time to grieve her death. Also, more importantly, it is an absolute waste of a fantastic actress, and one that could be very bankable for the franchise in the future.

So yeah, Doughtery basically screwed over a highly regarded actress, worsened his own movie, and franchise, just to mess with audiences, which didn't even really work because it was so poorly done. I had issues with the movie, but much like you, this choice soured the whole thing for me.

That's dumb either way.
"let's kill off a great actress because it's UNEXPECTED"
or most likely, making excuses to cover up a poor decision.

Totally agree. This was one of the most unfathomably stupid things he did. An utter waste on par with the Anime Trilogy. Vivienne Graham was one of my most favorite characters and also one of the few human characters still linking the universe together, the poop Dougherty pulled was just a disgrace to her character and done as some sick joke. While I do praise him for the justice he did to the Kaijus and the respect he showed the franchise, his treatment of Sally Hawkins and Dr. Graham, unutilization of MBB and Charles Dance and the insultingly bad misuse of the Oxygen Destroyer are just plain terrible.

also quotes are broken again. seems to be happening often.[/quote]

I get why Vivienne Graham she was killed off, via to increase Ghidorah's bad boy reputation, but I do think that there was a better way to do it. A longer scene of him and his henchman Rodan, wrecking Washington DC would have been far superior then that.

Alan Jonah, as I've said here multiple times, felt too much like a Ra's al Ghul knockoff, and a poor one at that.

I don't think that the Oxygen Destroyer was used as bad as you do, but I do wish that Ghidorah had suffered some moderate injuries and showed it via coughing up some blood and taking longer to regrow his one head.

[LSD Jellyfish]

GuardianGhido I understand you finding Graham getting killed annoying and a waste.
But I got to contest your claim that she was one of your favorite characters from the previous movie.
How though?
She was mostly there to have Serisawa someone to talk to every once in a while, stammering about where they put the supposed dead Muto and do this thing with her finger in ever scene and that was about it. I really find her being anyone's favorite character dubious.
I would have preferred she survived to carry on unless the actress said she didn't want to be in the movies anymore.

It's just another key example of a good actress, that was completely wasted due to poor writing and everyone involved not having a really solid plan. And they did the same shit with Cranston.

In any case, her and Serizawa, served as a balance to some of the bullshit spewing fake hip scientists that KOTM had. They could have done all the work instead of Sam and the glasses guy, and it would have been fine.

[GuardianGhido]

GuardianGhido I understand you finding Graham getting killed annoying and a waste.
But I got to contest your claim that she was one of your favorite characters from the previous movie.
How though?
She was mostly there to have Serisawa someone to talk to every once in a while, stammering about where they put the supposed dead Muto and do this thing with her finger in ever scene and that was about it. I really find her being anyone's favorite character dubious.
I would have preferred she survived to carry on unless the actress said she didn't want to be in the movies anymore.

Well considering the bland and boring cast of G14, Serizawa and Graham really stood out as two of the very few engaging characters of the movie and the only ones that really got involved with the monsters and thought of them as more than just plot elements or situations to deal with. Sure she wasn't a downright awesome character like Daisuke Serizawa, Astronaut Glenn or Captain Gordon, but she stood out in a cast of cardboard as someone you could connect with along with Ishiro Serizawa. The better characters in KOTM kinda overshadowed her somewhat, but her along with Serizawa established a link between KOTM and G14 but also felt like they really understood the Kaijus for what they are and not the threat they pose, as seen in the senator scene. Sally Hawkins being a great actress helped too. It's just a matter of opinion though, I can see why some might not like her.

It just ticks me off that Mikey had the gall and stupidity to just unceremoniously dump her like that, especially considering some say that she wanted to stay and help the MV grow! HE DITCHED A GREAT ACTRESS THAT WANTED TO HELP THE MV! Mikey you might have done some good things, but this and the OD are things I can't forgive you for.

[Gigantis]

GuardianGhido I understand you finding Graham getting killed annoying and a waste.
But I got to contest your claim that she was one of your favorite characters from the previous movie.
How though?
She was mostly there to have Serisawa someone to talk to every once in a while, stammering about where they put the supposed dead Muto and do this thing with her finger in ever scene and that was about it. I really find her being anyone's favorite character dubious.
I would have preferred she survived to carry on unless the actress said she didn't want to be in the movies anymore.

Well considering the bland and boring cast of G14, Serizawa and Graham really stood out as two of the very few engaging characters of the movie and the only ones that really got involved with the monsters and thought of them as more than just plot elements or situations to deal with. Sure she wasn't a downright awesome character like Daisuke Serizawa, Astronaut Glenn or Captain Gordon, but she stood out in a cast of cardboard as someone you could connect with along with Ishiro Serizawa. The better characters in KOTM kinda overshadowed her somewhat, but her along with Serizawa established a link between KOTM and G14 but also felt like they really understood the Kaijus for what they are and not the threat they pose, as seen in the senator scene. Sally Hawkins being a great actress helped too. It's just a matter of opinion though, I can see why some might not like her.

It just ticks me off that Mikey had the gall and stupidity to just unceremoniously dump her like that, especially considering some say that she wanted to stay and help the MV grow! HE DITCHED A GREAT ACTRESS THAT WANTED TO HELP THE MV! Mikey you might have done some good things, but this and the OD are things I can't forgive you for.

That stupid OD is just another can of worms in itself. How do you make one of the most important weapon in the entire series so skreoonking useless?!

I can't lie,Mike is a really good director,but i feel he wasn't as cut out as he thought he was to make a Godzilla movie.

[GuardianGhido]

GuardianGhido I understand you finding Graham getting killed annoying and a waste.
But I got to contest your claim that she was one of your favorite characters from the previous movie.
How though?
She was mostly there to have Serisawa someone to talk to every once in a while, stammering about where they put the supposed dead Muto and do this thing with her finger in ever scene and that was about it. I really find her being anyone's favorite character dubious.
I would have preferred she survived to carry on unless the actress said she didn't want to be in the movies anymore.

Well considering the bland and boring cast of G14, Serizawa and Graham really stood out as two of the very few engaging characters of the movie and the only ones that really got involved with the monsters and thought of them as more than just plot elements or situations to deal with. Sure she wasn't a downright awesome character like Daisuke Serizawa, Astronaut Glenn or Captain Gordon, but she stood out in a cast of cardboard as someone you could connect with along with Ishiro Serizawa. The better characters in KOTM kinda overshadowed her somewhat, but her along with Serizawa established a link between KOTM and G14 but also felt like they really understood the Kaijus for what they are and not the threat they pose, as seen in the senator scene. Sally Hawkins being a great actress helped too. It's just a matter of opinion though, I can see why some might not like her.

It just ticks me off that Mikey had the gall and stupidity to just unceremoniously dump her like that, especially considering some say that she wanted to stay and help the MV grow! HE DITCHED A GREAT ACTRESS THAT WANTED TO HELP THE MV! Mikey you might have done some good things, but this and the OD are things I can't forgive you for.

That stupid OD is just another can of worms in itself. How do you make one of the most important weapon in the entire series so skreoonking useless?!

I can't lie,Mike is a really good director,but i feel he wasn't as cut out as he thought he was to make a Godzilla movie.

The monster parts he absolutely nailed. (with the exception of Ghiddy being a wet noodle for Godzilla to slurp up when he gets in the water) The human and superweapon parts, he skreeonked up big time. Leaving everything to him is not a good idea. Godzilla BC would be the only way he'd not screw anything up considering it wouldn't really focus on prehistoric humans and stuff.

[Smuggers]

Well considering the bland and boring cast of G14, Serizawa and Graham really stood out as two of the very few engaging characters [...] she stood out in a cast of cardboard as someone you could connect with

Please say sike

[GuardianGhido]

Well considering the bland and boring cast of G14, Serizawa and Graham really stood out as two of the very few engaging characters [...] she stood out in a cast of cardboard as someone you could connect with

Please say sike

Opinions man, pretty sure there are people who found Ford to be the best human character in Godzilla history too. While she wasn't a stellar character, at least she and Dr. Serizawa had something to say about the monsters that didn't bore me to tears like everything else in G14.

[Smuggers]

at least she and Dr. Serizawa had something to say about the monsters that didn't bore me to tears like everything else in G14.

Yeah, that does seem to be the long and short of it.

[GojiDog]

I don't mind that they killed off Graham necessarily, and listening to the commentary, I understand Dougherty's reasoning for it.

It wasn't entirely to screw with audiences, but rather give off the idea that Ghidorah is dangerous and nobody is safe. Now granted, that will only go so far as even in show's like Walking Dead and Game of Thrones, we know there are a handful of characters that can't possibly die no matter how many times you do a shock death, but better to build up the monster as a threat than not at all.

This may have been the thought behind Cranston's death in the 2014, but that didn't work because Cranston's character was the most likable and had the most emotional investment in the first act of the film, so killing him off just threw the film off a bit. In a weird way, Sally was kind of the perfect candidate to kill off in this film as she was a character that has history with the story, the fans know her, and the actress playing her recently won an Oscar, and she isn't so important to the story that the movie doesn't work if she gets killed off.

That said, I wish they had executed it a bit better. Dougherty said in the commentary that Sally's moments in the film pre-Castle Bravo were added in reshoots to try and get her death to mean a little bit more, and while she is a nice presence in the film, it still didn't quite hit the right notes that it needed to. In the Aftershock comic, it is shown that she's pretty close to Emma and Madison, being kind of an aunt to Madison, and they could have played that up a bit more by having Emma kill off a close friend to accomplish her goal.

The TL;DR version, I like the idea of Hawkins death, but it was missing a little something in execution.

[GuardianGhido]

I don't mind that they killed off Graham necessarily, and listening to the commentary, I understand Dougherty's reasoning for it.

It wasn't entirely to screw with audiences, but rather give off the idea that Ghidorah is dangerous and nobody is safe. Now granted, that will only go so far as even in show's like Walking Dead and Game of Thrones, we know there are a handful of characters that can't possibly die no matter how many times you do a shock death, but better to build up the monster as a threat than not at all.

This may have been the thought behind Cranston's death in the 2014, but that didn't work because Cranston's character was the most likable and had the most emotional investment in the first act of the film, so killing him off just threw the film off a bit. In a weird way, Sally was kind of the perfect candidate to kill off in this film as she was a character that has history with the story, the fans know her, and the actress playing her recently won an Oscar, and she isn't so important to the story that the movie doesn't work if she gets killed off.

That said, I wish they had executed it a bit better. Dougherty said in the commentary that Sally's moments in the film pre-Castle Bravo were added in reshoots to try and get her death to mean a little bit more, and while she is a nice presence in the film, it still didn't quite hit the right notes that it needed to. In the Aftershock comic, it is shown that she's pretty close to Emma and Madison, being kind of an aunt to Madison, and they could have played that up a bit more by having Emma kill off a close friend to accomplish her goal.

The TL;DR version, I like the idea of Hawkins death, but it was missing a little something in execution.

If you want to make Ghidorah seem dangerous and all, why the skreeonk would you make him kill one random human that just so happens to be a main character when you can just have him interrupt an evacuation and fire into a crowd of innocent people instead? Forget anyone can die, what about EVERYONE can die?? Have him kill off the Brody family in a quick cameo by ATJ and Elizabeth Olson or something, that would have had the same impact without wasting a good recurring character played by a great actress who was supposedly willing to stay and help the MV grow! Heck you could have showed the Washington rampage in more detail and have Admiral Stenz die on screen by a gravity beam destroying his vessel. There were other options around. This was the worst possible choice Mr Dougherty could have made and he seems to have made it proudly.

It would have done the human parts so much more good if Dr. Graham was allowed to survive and mourn Dr. Serizawa's death or properly react to Emma's betrayal. Instead, Dougherty just wanted to go "skreeonk you, we're killing off a good character and not giving a poop about it" because Ghidorah is supposed to be dangerous you see. Sure Godzilla can easily squash him like a bug underwate, but he killed off one tiny human that we just so happened to care a lot about so that means he's dangerous! There was no good reason for it and it was done in the most disrespectful, bird flipping way possible. And just because "anyone can die" doesn't mean that they should. In Serizawa's words, killing her was a mistake.