Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

For discussions covering more than one Toho film or show that span across more than one “era.”
Post Reply
User avatar
KaijuCanuck
Futurian
Posts: 3451
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:12 pm
Location: The Milky Way

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by KaijuCanuck »

goji89 wrote:
KaijuCanuck wrote:
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: KaijuCanuck disappointed me yesterday. You're at the top of the food chain, so you have every right to be disappointed, 89-sama.
Pffff spreading our dirty laundry all over the board like that, you hussy!!! :mad:
Well, its not the first time a Canadian dissapoints......they are just "small" kind of people and can't "perform" well although they do finish "fast" whatever it is they do...like building dams....... ;) .
Man, you must be one of those stupid people I hear so much about. Those loud dumb annoying arrogant people you see on the news all the time. What are they called again? Oh yeah, Americans. :P
Image

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 14610
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

I actually like the pause there, the brief respite between Godzilla killings Mothra and the Larva attacking, but the problem is what the content of what happens there is underwhelming. If let’s say, Godzilla turned towards a large city, and was on his way, then yeah that would’ve been more climactic.

Also, I never really understood why Mothra really agrees to help the humans out in the end. At first it’s very clear Mothra is anti-human, and then she just sorta changes her mind. She actually just sortve shows up at the end to save the egg, not really help out, and then the larva get revenge. The whole narrative with the humans trying to convince Mothra to stop Godzilla is irrelevant sortve,
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

User avatar
goji89
Sazer
Posts: 13263
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:27 pm

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by goji89 »

KaijuCanuck wrote:[ Oh yeah, Americans. :P
Yes. Also it's 'Merikans you mooses anus.

User avatar
Spuro
Keizer
Posts: 9553
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: Monster Island

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Spuro »

eabaker wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:Eh I was sortve being a troll, but not really. The original is probably one of the best in the franchise, but because of how many times it’s plot/elements has been recycled, I can’t help but feel like it’s retroactively lost a lot of its luster in my mind. That and I feel that the movies it’s sandwhiched between KKVG(and I’m gonna he explicitly mentioning the Japanese version) and GTTHM sortve are on equal footing always make me question why when people say it’s the best.
Also, the subplot with the kids is a pretty obvious non-starter there to give the protagonists something to do when, really, their role in the narrative is already finished.
I saw a review on this site somewhere recently (maybe it was even in this same thread? I don't remember) that out forth the interpretation that the scene with the children serves to bring Ichiro's character development full circle, and I have to admit it's opened my eyes regarding this scene.
eabaker wrote: You can't parse duende.
Breakdown wrote: HP Lovecraft's cat should be the ultimate villain of the MonsterVerse.

User avatar
Terasawa
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 5841
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Terasawa »

LSD Jellyfish wrote:Also, I never really understood why Mothra really agrees to help the humans out in the end. At first it’s very clear Mothra is anti-human, and then she just sorta changes her mind. She actually just sortve shows up at the end to save the egg, not really help out, and then the larva get revenge. The whole narrative with the humans trying to convince Mothra to stop Godzilla is irrelevant sortve,
Wow, no, it's absolutely not at all irrelevant. Not even sorta. :P

The Shobijin try several times to get Mothra's egg returned. They try Kumayama and Torahata first, but those two only want to exploit them. Sakai, Junko, and Dr. Miura try to help them but despite a minor effort they're ineffective. Their cynicism is revealed and the Shobijin give up. (Whether this is frustration or just accepting the circumstances isn't clear at this point.) They return to their home saying that they appreciate the effort.

When the trio then appear on Infant Island to convince the islanders to allow Mothra to fight Godzilla the natives are obviously very much against this. So too are the Shobijin. (This is where it's implied that the Shobijin had given up earlier because they didn't think the Japanese were to be trusted.) They make the argument that, why should they help when the people of Japan were unwilling or unable to help them.

That's what the movie is trying to say: we shouldn't have to have a reason to help our brothers and sisters. We're all human. In a way the Shobijin (and by extension Mothra, although she's clearly not human) have no reason to help. But they ultimately do because it's the right thing. There's literally nothing anti-human about Mothra or the Shobijin here. So having the main characters go to Infant Island and literally beg for help is kinda the whole point of the movie besides having Godzilla and Mothra fight.

Also the Mothra larvae are not really getting revenge. They're just completing what their mother had come to Japan to do: stop Godzilla from destroying Japan.

Edit (again): Kaiju-King, I don't know if you were referring to my post in the talkback thread but that's basically been my interpretation of that final act drama. I'd never considered LSD Jellyfish's suggestion of having Godzilla turn toward a major population center before but I guess that would work too. What I don't like about that, however, is that the stakes are so high at that point that everyone basically has to act. (I mean, wouldn't you if you felt you had a chance to prevent your home town from being destroyed?) What I prefer about having them rescue a group of children is that they put themselves directly in harm's way to help only a few people rather than thousands. It reinforces that concept of helping others because it's the right thing to do, not because you'd benefit from it. Rescuing children is less exciting and likely more anticlimactic than saving Tokyo or something, but I think it was the right choice to complete the characters' arcs.
Last edited by Terasawa on Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.
寺沢. He/him/his, etc.

User avatar
eabaker
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 13758
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by eabaker »

Kaiju-King42 wrote:
eabaker wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:Eh I was sortve being a troll, but not really. The original is probably one of the best in the franchise, but because of how many times it’s plot/elements has been recycled, I can’t help but feel like it’s retroactively lost a lot of its luster in my mind. That and I feel that the movies it’s sandwhiched between KKVG(and I’m gonna he explicitly mentioning the Japanese version) and GTTHM sortve are on equal footing always make me question why when people say it’s the best.
Also, the subplot with the kids is a pretty obvious non-starter there to give the protagonists something to do when, really, their role in the narrative is already finished.
I saw a review on this site somewhere recently (maybe it was even in this same thread? I don't remember) that out forth the interpretation that the scene with the children serves to bring Ichiro's character development full circle, and I have to admit it's opened my eyes regarding this scene.
Oh, that's interesting! I'll keep that in mind the next time I watch it.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
Grievous
Terminated
Terminated
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Grievous »

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:Vs Biollante
But vs. Biollante is one of the most creative & diverse entries in the entire franchise.

Its Top 10 Material for sure.
Last edited by Grievous on Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
The A.D.F Needs You! Join The Anguirus Defense Force via Private Message Today!

User avatar
Dr. Professor
Futurian
Posts: 3575
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Dr. Professor »

I'll never understand the praise for Godzilla vs. Biollante. It's a mid-tier Godzilla film at best for me. There's so much shit going on in it, and yet it still finds a way to be boring.
Resized Image
(Art by Lisa Naffziger)

Co-host (Nick) of G-Force: A Kaiju Podcast
Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

RIP Evan A. Baker :serizawa:

User avatar
Grievous
Terminated
Terminated
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Grievous »

Dr. Professor wrote:I'll never understand the praise for Godzilla vs. Biollante. It's a mid-tier Godzilla film at best for me. There's so much poop going on in it, and yet it still finds a way to be boring.
That's cool Doc...

I'll never understand those who don't praise vs. Biollante.

:thumbsup:
Image
The A.D.F Needs You! Join The Anguirus Defense Force via Private Message Today!

User avatar
Dr. Professor
Futurian
Posts: 3575
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Dr. Professor »

Grievous wrote:
Dr. Professor wrote:I'll never understand the praise for Godzilla vs. Biollante. It's a mid-tier Godzilla film at best for me. There's so much poop going on in it, and yet it still finds a way to be boring.
That's cool Doc...

I'll never understand those who don't praise vs. Biollante.

:thumbsup:
Image
Resized Image
(Art by Lisa Naffziger)

Co-host (Nick) of G-Force: A Kaiju Podcast
Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

RIP Evan A. Baker :serizawa:

User avatar
Grievous
Terminated
Terminated
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Grievous »

Dr. Professor wrote:
Grievous wrote:
Dr. Professor wrote:I'll never understand the praise for Godzilla vs. Biollante. It's a mid-tier Godzilla film at best for me. There's so much poop going on in it, and yet it still finds a way to be boring.
That's cool Doc...

I'll never understand those who don't praise vs. Biollante.

:thumbsup:
Image
Hey...there is no need for that kind of language Doc.

Don't worry about it.

Maybe one day you will see the light & understand just
why vs. Biollante is so awesome.

But until then...I'll pray for you.

:thumbsup:
Image
The A.D.F Needs You! Join The Anguirus Defense Force via Private Message Today!

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 14610
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Terasawa wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:Also, I never really understood why Mothra really agrees to help the humans out in the end. At first it’s very clear Mothra is anti-human, and then she just sorta changes her mind. She actually just sortve shows up at the end to save the egg, not really help out, and then the larva get revenge. The whole narrative with the humans trying to convince Mothra to stop Godzilla is irrelevant sortve,
Wow, no, it's absolutely not at all irrelevant. Not even sorta. :P

The Shobijin try several times to get Mothra's egg returned. They try Kumayama and Torahata first, but those two only want to exploit them. Sakai, Junko, and Dr. Miura try to help them but despite a minor effort they're ineffective. Their cynicism is revealed and the Shobijin give up. (Whether this is frustration or just accepting the circumstances isn't clear at this point.) They return to their home saying that they appreciate the effort.

When the trio then appear on Infant Island to convince the islanders to allow Mothra to fight Godzilla the natives are obviously very much against this. So too are the Shobijin. (This is where it's implied that the Shobijin had given up earlier because they didn't think the Japanese were to be trusted.) They make the argument that, why should they help when the people of Japan were unwilling or unable to help them.

That's what the movie is trying to say: we shouldn't have to have a reason to help our brothers and sisters. We're all human. In a way the Shobijin (and by extension Mothra, although she's clearly not human) have no reason to help. But they ultimately do because it's the right thing. There's literally nothing anti-human about Mothra or the Shobijin here. So having the main characters go to Infant Island and literally beg for help is kinda the whole point of the movie besides having Godzilla and Mothra fight.

Also the Mothra larvae are not really getting revenge. They're just completing what their mother had come to Japan to do: stop Godzilla from destroying Japan.

Edit (again): Kaiju-King, I don't know if you were referring to my post in the talkback thread but that's basically been my interpretation of that final act drama. I'd never considered LSD Jellyfish's suggestion of having Godzilla turn toward a major population center before but I guess that would work too. What I don't like about that, however, is that the stakes are so high at that point that everyone basically has to act. (I mean, wouldn't you if you felt you had a chance to prevent your home town from being destroyed?) What I prefer about having them rescue a group of children is that they put themselves directly in harm's way to help only a few people rather than thousands. It reinforces that concept of helping others because it's the right thing to do, not because you'd benefit from it. Rescuing children is less exciting and likely more anticlimactic than saving Tokyo or something, but I think it was the right choice to complete the characters' arcs.

Hmm wow I never actually saw that as part of the film! Thanks for improving my appreciation of it!
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

User avatar
Dr. Professor
Futurian
Posts: 3575
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Dr. Professor »

Grievous wrote:
Dr. Professor wrote:
Grievous wrote: That's cool Doc...

I'll never understand those who don't praise vs. Biollante.

:thumbsup:
Image
Hey...there is no need for that kind of language Doc.

Don't worry about it.

Maybe one day you will see the light & understand just
why vs. Biollante is so awesome.

But until then...I'll pray for you.

:thumbsup:
Thanks, I appreciate it. :lol: I really do wanna like that film more than I do, but I just can't get into it. :shrug:
Resized Image
(Art by Lisa Naffziger)

Co-host (Nick) of G-Force: A Kaiju Podcast
Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

RIP Evan A. Baker :serizawa:

User avatar
Gojirawars 03
Monarch Researcher
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:18 am
Contact:

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Gojirawars 03 »

goji89 wrote:
KaijuCanuck wrote:[ Oh yeah, Americans. :P
Yes. Also it's 'Merikans you mooses anus.
Yeah. Besides, which country is being allowed to make a kaiju cinematic universe? That's right. Good old USA. So with all due respect, get yeeted on, my foreign friend.
"The time has come, finally, to put our technology to the final test."
-Dr. Asimov

Image
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8S9Rq ... r78nzbs-FQ

User avatar
Zarm
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4973
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:21 pm
Location: USA, East Coast
Contact:

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Zarm »

You know, the nationalism jokes kinda feel like they're getting out of hand this week...
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight. :ninja:
The grace of God is a greater gift than we can truly fathom; undeserved mercy is a kindness humbling in its sheer scope.

The Zone Fighter campaign is complete, with all episodes subtitled! PM me if you need a link location.

Maranatha!

User avatar
KaijuCanuck
Futurian
Posts: 3451
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:12 pm
Location: The Milky Way

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by KaijuCanuck »

For the record, I have no desire to put down America - just goji89. :twisted:
Image

User avatar
goji89
Sazer
Posts: 13263
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:27 pm

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by goji89 »

KaijuCanuck wrote:For the record, I have no desire to put down America - just goji89. :twisted:
Yeah.....goji89 sucks that stupid 'Merican.........wait a second.....

User avatar
Spuro
Keizer
Posts: 9553
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: Monster Island

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Spuro »

Zarm wrote:You know, the nationalism jokes kinda feel like they're getting out of hand this week...
Yeah I'm kinda feeling it too...

You restrain TK's resident USAsians, I'll restrain the resident Canadians. We'll force them to make up and build a united North American alliance!


(On topic)
There aren't many kaiju I dislike, unlike most people here. Even the Giant Condor or Minya.
eabaker wrote: You can't parse duende.
Breakdown wrote: HP Lovecraft's cat should be the ultimate villain of the MonsterVerse.

User avatar
Maritonic
Admin | Forum Manager
Admin | Forum Manager
Posts: 6680
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:26 am

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Maritonic »

Zarm wrote:You know, the nationalism jokes kinda feel like they're getting out of hand this week...
I only joke about Canada and it's in good fun. Primarily with Canuck, who knows it's in good fun (I think?).
Image
Any issues, please feel free to private message me or e-mail me at MaritonicTK@gmail.com.
Bruno says we're not supposed to hate.
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:24 pm Don't go to a friend's wedding, send him 100 copies of Gamera vs Zigra instead. Be a man.

User avatar
Zarm
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4973
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:21 pm
Location: USA, East Coast
Contact:

Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Zarm »

Kaiju-King42 wrote:
Zarm wrote:You know, the nationalism jokes kinda feel like they're getting out of hand this week...
Yeah I'm kinda feeling it too...

You restrain TK's resident USAsians, I'll restrain the resident Canadians. We'll force them to make up and build a united North American alliance!


(On topic)
There aren't many kaiju I dislike, unlike most people here. Even the Giant Condor or Minya.
You have great faith in me, sir. If you can figure out how to restrain USAsians, please share the secret with me. I can't even control the three little ones I have at home... ;)

I agree with you. There are some kaiju I like less than others, but few I actively dislike.
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight. :ninja:
The grace of God is a greater gift than we can truly fathom; undeserved mercy is a kindness humbling in its sheer scope.

The Zone Fighter campaign is complete, with all episodes subtitled! PM me if you need a link location.

Maranatha!

Post Reply