Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

For discussions covering more than one Toho film or show that span across more than one “era.”

Who’s The Deadliest?

Hedorah
32
64%
Destroyah
18
36%
 
Total votes: 50

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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Maritonic » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:01 pm

Zarm wrote:
Maritonic wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:Mechagodzilla did not kill Godzilla in GVMG2. Only paralyzed him.

The second brain controls his motor functions in his lower body. Destroying that wouldn't kill him.


"Godzilla is also killed in Kodansha's manga adaptation of the film, with Mechagodzilla beheading him after Mecha-King Ghidorah's programming takes over the machine." WHOA WHY WASN'T THIS USED?!

Or. Like. Hinted at with having MechaGhidorah's programming be a ghost in the machine.


So, basically Kiryu v1.0? I wonder if the filmmakers took any inspiration from that idea. (I will say that while it wasn't un-utilized, various concepts with Godzilla's bones and spirit, and Mothra's objections, represent the second-worst squandering of a concept in the franchise, to my mind, after Destroyah and the Oxygen Destroyer). :)


Basically, and that's absolutely possible. But man this would have been cool to see.

And I agree; the Kiryu films have INSANE potential that is left untouched, especially with Godzilla's spirit and bones considering it follows GMK which was spiritual and successful.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Malchik » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:58 pm

Grievous wrote:
Maritonic wrote:Why does him being the Oxygen Destroyer feel forced? They actually do it in a pretty solid way, I thought.

Well...its a colony of Oxygen Destroyer mutated Precambrian organisms
that have been lying dormant in Tokyo Bay for 40/41 years.

It just seems forced to me...like they HAD to tie it to the original instead of
having a scientist trying to replicate the original Oxygen Destroyer only to have
it backfire & mutant some sea life in a fish tank he tests his formula in.

Yeah, that wouldn't tie into what Godzilla stands for. Godzilla was birthed by the hydrogen bomb. An even greater weapon was needed to kill him and that same weapon later created a greater monster. You may find the connection hackneyed but this was to be Godzillas last film for the foreseeable future. Destroyah and Godzilla have mirror-like origins.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:30 pm

The executions so shitty it doesn’t even matter and Destroyah never came close to being shown as the same threat Hedorah posed.
Yeah, Godzilla wins... sometimes. I mean, he was killed by Dr. Serizawa's patented bubble-bath formula, heartburn, missiles, and poor box office returns, got his ass kicked by a drunken, circus-escaped gorilla, then he was beaten by two newborn worms, yeah some “king”.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:18 pm

Destroyah was a result of the oxygen destroyer mutating a form of life. Godzilla was the result of the atomic bomb mutating and corrupting life. Both were ancient organisms prior awakened. I don’t see how that’s forced.

If you’re asking why Destroyah starts to wake up and multiply after so long, it’s because the microorganisms were disturbed after the area where the 1954 Godzilla was killed due to construction of a tunnel. It’s actually pretty similar to a lot of older monster origins, and sortve ties into Godzilla being woken up and disturbed by mankind’s encroachment.


I agree though that Destroyah wasn’t shown as big of threat as Hedorah though. GVH had an overwhelming sense of dread throughout, especially because the implication was that Hedorah could get even bigger. With Destroyah they sortve imply that’s as big as it could get which is disapointing.
Then, everything changed when the Giant Condor became the Giant Eagle.

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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Grievous » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:29 am

LSD Jellyfish wrote:If you’re asking why Destroyah starts to wake up and multiply after so long, it’s because the microorganisms were disturbed after the area where the 1954 Godzilla was killed due to construction of a tunnel. It’s actually pretty similar to a lot of older monster origins, and sortve ties into Godzilla being woken up and disturbed by mankind’s encroachment.

So...similar & predictable...and forced.

Got it.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:39 am

Grievous wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:If you’re asking why Destroyah starts to wake up and multiply after so long, it’s because the microorganisms were disturbed after the area where the 1954 Godzilla was killed due to construction of a tunnel. It’s actually pretty similar to a lot of older monster origins, and sortve ties into Godzilla being woken up and disturbed by mankind’s encroachment.

So...similar & predictable...and forced.

Got it.

I’m just confused how that’s forced. You could say that about pretty much every other Heisei monster other then Biollante, or very specifically MKG.
Then, everything changed when the Giant Condor became the Giant Eagle.

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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Grievous » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:03 am

LSD Jellyfish wrote:I’m just confused how that’s forced. You could say that about pretty much every other Heisei monster other then Biollante, or very specifically MKG.

Like I've said earlier in the thread...

Destroyah feels forced to me...and I've explained why. Go back
& read some of my earlier posts & if it you still don't get what
I'm saying...then just forget it Bro.

Its simply how I feel about the situation.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:58 am

I like how Destroyah has 15 votes yet I haven’t seen a single explanation on how Destroyah could possibly be more dangerous than Hedorah, who would kill the entire planet in days…
Last edited by PitchBlackProgress on Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
Yeah, Godzilla wins... sometimes. I mean, he was killed by Dr. Serizawa's patented bubble-bath formula, heartburn, missiles, and poor box office returns, got his ass kicked by a drunken, circus-escaped gorilla, then he was beaten by two newborn worms, yeah some “king”.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:00 pm

PitchBlackProgress wrote:I like how Destroyah has 15 votes yet I haven’t seen a single explanation on how Destroyah could possibly be more dangerous than Hedorah, who would kill the entire planet in days…


Well if you want an explanation I'll be happy to provide one. Don't need to be a dick about it.

Destoroyah and Hedorah pose essentially the same threats. They are capable or reproducing when exposed to a certain energy source (Hedorah's is pollution, where as Destoroyah's is implied to be extreme heat) and are capable of growing larger and size and/or more numerous, as well as becoming exponentially more powerful. In vs Hedorah we see Hedorah grow more resistant to atomic breath that by the end of the movie he's barely phased. The same can be seen with Destoroyah. While extreme heat from flamethrowers temporarily broke down the smaller Destoroyahs, by the movie's end he was capable of surving multiple blasts of the meltdown spiral ray, a feat that not even Spacegodzilla replicated. Where neither of them stopped, both monsters have the capacity to overrun the world. Both of course are also extraordinarily difficult to put down permenantly. This makes them both, in my eyes, perhaps the most powerful monsters in the series.

Destoroyah's secondary, more understated ability is one it shares with Shin Godzilla: it's ability to adapt. Destoroyah is capable of forming complex tissues, fluids and organs out of its microbes: blood, armor, wings, even a pair of eyes. It's even given itself new means of attack as it evolves, such as the laser horn, and bolstered its resistance against extreme heat, which temporarily impaired it while it was smaller. Destoroyah not only combines Hedorah's ability to grow and reproduce, but Shin's ability to endlessly adapt to gain new abilities and features.

As for who's more dangerous between Destoroyah and Hedorah? Dunno. Don't care. That's largely up to the veiwer. They're both frighteningly dangerous beasts though, and are have the most notable "apocalyptic powers" of perhaps any other Godzilla monster.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Tomzilla » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:44 pm

It’s fun to analyze Hedorah and Destoroyah’s respective abilities and the disastrous effects they have on the environment; however, there are certain variables in play that have the potential to make-or-break both monsters’ agenda.

Firstly, Hedorah arguably had it easier than Destoroyah; the Smog Monster attacked an Earth that was nowhere near as sufficiently advanced as its Heisei counterpart. If the JSDF’s upper-brass learned about Hedorah’s weakness to electricity, I have no doubt they would scramble to exploit that weakness. Moreover, Destoroyah had the misfortune of contending with the JSDF’s freezing weapons, which would theoretically pose a threat to Hedorah.

Now let’s look at Hedorah and Destoroyah’s respective Godzillas:

Hedorah was facing off against – when proportionally scaled – the physically strongest live-action Godzilla. Showa Godzilla excels in having both brains and brawn, and even he, were it not for human intervention, would’ve fallen at the toxic hands of Hedorah.

Destoroyah had to contend with Meltdown Godzilla, arguably the most powerful live-action Godzilla. I’m sorry, I love Showa Godzilla as much as the next guy, but there’s no comparison; Meltdown Godzilla functions on a higher-tier. Despite inflicting wounds that would have proven fatal to any other monster, Destoroyah couldn’t put the supercharged-Godzilla down.

So, while Hedorah performed better against its respective Godzilla, Destoroyah was fighting a more powerful Godzilla—and holding his own. There’s not a chance in hell Hedorah would’ve done better.

But let’s say each apocalyptic monster was allowed to reach its peak potential. Who would win in a race to destroy the planet faster?

Pollution is still a huge problem in the world, so business will be good for Hedorah. I can see entire cities falling to him on a weekly basis. Ironically, Hedorah might clean up the planet’s pollution by consuming all of it, replacing it completely with its biomass. This would make most of the world uninhabitable for humans and most forms of life. Right out of the gate, Hedorah was terrorizing Japan. Destoroyah was more of a slow-burn; the humans were too busy worrying about Godzilla blowing up than realizing they had not one but two apocalyptic threats on their hands. With Hedorah, humankind realizes immediately they have a serious situation.

Destoroyah is unique as being a self-sustaining colony of microorganisms. To increase its numbers—which in turn would enable it to achieve a new, more powerful form—Destoroyah needs Micro-Oxygen. This isn’t a problem because Destoroyah emits its own Micro-Oxygen, hence why he is self-sustaining. What this means is Destoroyah’s Final Form isn’t final. Destoroyah will continue to evolve; unlike Hedorah, who needs pollution to evolve and multiply, Destoroyah only needs time. And it would only be a matter of time before Destoroyah infects the oceans (Destoroyah is highly dangerous in water, far more than he is on land) and destroys everything on land.

Personally, I don’t think Destoroyah or Hedorah would ever reach their peak threat level. Humans are notoriously adaptive. Destoroyah has a weakness to cold; Hedorah can’t survive if he’s dried out. These are weaknesses that can and would be exploited.

With that said, I honestly don’t know who’d destroy the world faster. In a hypothetical fight between the two, I’d wager on Destoroyah. But that doesn’t in any way diminishes Hedorah’s threat level. So, uh, flip a coin.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Zarm » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:49 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote:While extreme heat from flamethrowers temporarily broke down the smaller Destoroyahs, by the movie's end he was capable of surving multiple blasts of the meltdown spiral ray, a feat that not even Spacegodzilla replicated.


To be fair, though, SpaceGodzilla was only exposed to the spiral heat ray right at the end of the battle, after absorbing 70-plus shots from a pair of opponents, having his primary power source destroyed from underground, and his primary energy source being sent into a state of overload by the destruction of his shoulder crystals. I suspect that SpaceGodzilla not at the very end of a long, drug-out fight against multiple opponents could very well take multiple spiral rays.

I would also suggest that he has a far more apocalyptic powers set than Destroyah, as he has the ability to paralyze foes and hold them helpless in the air, using his telekinesis along with his corona beams, and fight multiple enemies at once. And he also has, to me, the more credible ability to spread unchecked, with his crystals having proven to be both terraforming agents and sources of power for him.

In addition, neither Godzilla, nor the human military, could handle SpaceGodzilla individually, and barely wom two-on-one-ing him, whereas both entities were able to separately beat Destroyah on their own. I would really put him as a higher threat than Destroyah, based on demonstrated capabilities. The katana horn is the only ability Destroyah has that seems even remotely devastating in a kaiju sense (maybe micro-oxygen injection, but it's effects seem to be all talk and no results) and nothing that makes him a greater threat to humanity than any other kaiju (or even a great a threat as SpaceGodzilla) that I can see.

I just wouldn't classify him as an apocalyptic level threat. At least not any more than any other kaiju that humanity can't stop on its own... except this one, it actually can stop on its own, unlike others we've seen in the same series.


Tomzilla wrote:What this means is Destoroyah’s Final Form isn’t final. Destoroyah will continue to evolve; unlike Hedorah, who needs pollution to evolve and multiply, Destoroyah only needs time.


But, to clarify, surely the same can be said of Hedorah; his final form wasn't final. And the message of the film also seemed clear that pollution was plentiful enough that Hedorah essentially only needed time as well; the envirnoment provided plentifully enough that it was not a limiting factor.

Again, not debating your overall point, just seeking clarification if we agreed on that point.
Last edited by Zarm on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Tomzilla » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:35 pm

Zarm wrote:But, to clarify, surely the same can be said of Hedorah; his final form wasn't final. And the message of the film also seemed clear that pollution was plentiful enough that Hedorah essentially only needed time as well; the envirnoment provided plentifully enough that it was not a limiting factor.

Again, not debating your overall point, just seeking clarification if we agreed on that point.


Yes, we agree. The difference is Hedorah requires an external food source to evolve and multiply; Destoroyah does not. In fact, Destoroyah can also use Micro-Oxygen to assimilate energy from other life forms (e.g., Godzilla Junior and Godzilla). In a hypothetical scenario where we're given a chance to see Destoroyah and Hedorah reach their apocalyptic potential, both kaiju would have long transcended their canonical Final Forms. However, Hedorah's food source is limited to what Destoroyah consumes. That was mainly my point.

I also agree with your thoughts on SpaceGodzilla. It's important to distinguish the difference between Godzilla's deadliest foe and Godzilla's most powerful foe. The former could be moderately weak by kaiju standards yet still pose a significant threat to Godzilla; the latter most likely poses a serious threat to everyone. So, monsters like SpaceGodzilla and MechaGodzilla--especially with his recent Anime stats and abilities--arguably pose a greater threat to Godzilla.
Last edited by Tomzilla on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:23 pm

If Hedorah managed to suck in all the pollution of even one country, he’d be too big to stop, it seems like in days he’d be too much to stop.
Yeah, Godzilla wins... sometimes. I mean, he was killed by Dr. Serizawa's patented bubble-bath formula, heartburn, missiles, and poor box office returns, got his ass kicked by a drunken, circus-escaped gorilla, then he was beaten by two newborn worms, yeah some “king”.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Zarm » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:35 pm

Tomzilla wrote:It's important to distinguish the difference between Godzilla's deadliest foe and Godzilla's most powerful foe. The former could be moderately weak by kaiju standards yet still pose a significant threat to Godzilla; the latter most likely poses a serious threat to everyone. So, monsters like SpaceGodzilla and MechaGodzilla--especially with his recent Anime stats and abilities--arguably pose a greater threat to Godzilla.


Exactly. It begs the question, deadliest in what way? Deadliest to the particular Godzilla they were matched against? Deadliest to some composite, baseline-averaged version of Godzilla, in which case questions of era scaling coming to play? Deadliest to humanity? The criteria have a lot to do with the answer to this question. Is it the ones that brought him closest to death, (in which case Destroyah seems to be on the fairly low end of the scale)? Is it's the ones with the most potential to do long-term damage? Is it the ones with the most potent weapons? Etc.
Last edited by Zarm on Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby KaijuCanuck » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:48 pm

Zarm wrote:
Tomzilla wrote:It's important to distinguish the difference between Godzilla's deadliest foe and Godzilla's most powerful foe. The former could be moderately weak by kaiju standards yet still pose a significant threat to Godzilla; the latter most likely poses a serious threat to everyone. So, monsters like SpaceGodzilla and MechaGodzilla--especially with his recent Anime stats and abilities--arguably pose a greater threat to Godzilla.


Exactly. It begs the question, deadliest in what way? Deadliest to the particular Godzilla they were matched against? Deadliest to some composite, baseline-averaged version of Godzilla, in which case questions of era scaling coming to play? Deadliest to humanity? The criteria have a lot to do with the answer to this question. Is it the ones that brought him closest to death, (in which case Destroyah seems to be on the fairly low end of the scale)? Is it's the ones with the most potential to do long-term damage? Is it the ones with the most potent weapons? Etc.


Zarm, anybody ever tell you you examine nerd subjects like a lawyer or a judge? Sometimes reading your reasoning is eerily similar to the judicial decisions I have to read for school. :lol:
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Zarm » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:54 pm

KaijuCanuck wrote:
Zarm wrote:
Tomzilla wrote:It's important to distinguish the difference between Godzilla's deadliest foe and Godzilla's most powerful foe. The former could be moderately weak by kaiju standards yet still pose a significant threat to Godzilla; the latter most likely poses a serious threat to everyone. So, monsters like SpaceGodzilla and MechaGodzilla--especially with his recent Anime stats and abilities--arguably pose a greater threat to Godzilla.


Exactly. It begs the question, deadliest in what way? Deadliest to the particular Godzilla they were matched against? Deadliest to some composite, baseline-averaged version of Godzilla, in which case questions of era scaling coming to play? Deadliest to humanity? The criteria have a lot to do with the answer to this question. Is it the ones that brought him closest to death, (in which case Destroyah seems to be on the fairly low end of the scale)? Is it's the ones with the most potential to do long-term damage? Is it the ones with the most potent weapons? Etc.


Zarm, anybody ever tell you you examine nerd subjects like a lawyer or a judge? Sometimes reading your reasoning is eerily similar to the judicial decisions I have to read for school. :lol:


Why thank you- that's one of the nicest things anyone's ever said to me. :) I'd like to hope that's the influence of the CS Lewis school of logic. My grandfather did say he thought I'd be a lawyer one day, back when I was about four...

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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby miguelnuva » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:30 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
Grievous wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:For the Heisei series he most certainly was.

Nah...

That would go to (Super) MechaGodzilla...at least
it would in my opinion.

If not for the Rodan fueled "Power Up" MechaGodzilla
would have would have ended Godzilla once & for all
& with Rodan also dead the infant Godzilla would have
most likely remained in JSDF custody.

You could just as easily say if the JDSF didn’t use crying weapons Destroyah would’ve continued his rampage and killed Godzilla. Plus Burning Godzilla is super duper strong. I’m not saying SMG2 isn’t also a great antagonist, in a way it kicks off the second half of the Heisei series, but Destroyah has way more tie in to Godzilla. MG is a robot built with futuristic tech based off Godzilla, Destroyah is the oxygen destroyer. Mg is cool and all, but Destroyah has a big sense of finality to him.


No Destroyer was going to run away and come back after Godzilla died himself. Its stated in the movie Destroyer can't handle Godzilla and the fight was onside once the spiral Ray's kicked in.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby KaijuCanuck » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:35 pm

Let’s just agree all three of those final bosses were a lot for Godzilla to handle.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Grievous » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:39 pm

KaijuCanuck wrote:Let’s just agree all three of those final bosses were a lot for Godzilla to handle.

That sounds fair.

Hedorah still rules & Destroyah still drools though.

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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby miguelnuva » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:17 pm

KaijuCanuck wrote:Let’s just agree all three of those final bosses were a lot for Godzilla to handle.


Godzilla beat Destroyer to the point he was trying to run away. People think Destroyer is impressive just because Godzilla had gotten so powerful. Once Destroyer used his laser katana the fight went almost one sided.
Last edited by miguelnuva on Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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