Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

[eabaker]

Not sure where to put this but why did Toho stop using Tohoscope with the Heisei films?

Kawakita mentioned at one point that monsters appeared larger in the 1.85:1 format to Toho went with that.

I can't remember who it was, but I read an interview with someone on the staff of the Heisei series who said something along the lines of "Godzilla is impressive because of his height, not his width."

[Maritonic]

Not sure where to put this but why did Toho stop using Tohoscope with the Heisei films?

Kawakita mentioned at one point that monsters appeared larger in the 1.85:1 format to Toho went with that.

I can't remember who it was, but I read an interview with someone on the staff of the Heisei series who said something along the lines of "Godzilla is impressive because of his height, not his width."

T H I C C

[Terasawa]

Not sure where to put this but why did Toho stop using Tohoscope with the Heisei films?

Kawakita mentioned at one point that monsters appeared larger in the 1.85:1 format to Toho went with that.

Toho was using flat widescreen before Kawakita took over as SFX director. In fact, Japanese studios kind of abandoned scope by the late '70s. There are incredibly few scope films from Japanese studios between ~1978 and ~1999. I'm not sure the reason, but it was more than just the Godzilla series that was being shot in 1.85.

[Bane]

I remember enjoying this movie my first viewing five years ago, thought the action was nice. Nowadays, I get bored with every subsequent viewing. The pacing, perhaps?

[eabaker]

I remember enjoying this movie my first viewing five years ago, thought the action was nice. Nowadays, I get bored with every subsequent viewing. The pacing, perhaps?

I also get more and more bored by this one with each viewing. The pacing is definitely poor. The movie moves decently up through the Kyoto attack, but after that it mostly just spins its wheels until the climax.

[Bane]

I remember enjoying this movie my first viewing five years ago, thought the action was nice. Nowadays, I get bored with every subsequent viewing. The pacing, perhaps?

I also get more and more bored by this one with each viewing. The pacing is definitely poor. The movie moves decently up through the Kyoto attack, but after that it mostly just spins its wheels until the climax.

It's rather unfortunate, I felt as though this film had a rather unique story. If it was handled with more care, it could have still remained as one of the best films of the Heisei series.

[eabaker]

I remember enjoying this movie my first viewing five years ago, thought the action was nice. Nowadays, I get bored with every subsequent viewing. The pacing, perhaps?

I also get more and more bored by this one with each viewing. The pacing is definitely poor. The movie moves decently up through the Kyoto attack, but after that it mostly just spins its wheels until the climax.

It's rather unfortunate, I felt as though this film had a rather unique story. If it was handled with more care, it could have still remained as one of the best films of the Heisei series.

Agreed. I think the biggest narrative mistake was probably putting the focus on Azusa's relationship with Baby, rather than letting Miki fill that role. Since it is Miki who undergoes the biggest change and faces the major moral struggle of the movie - learning to see Godzilla as a living creature deserving of empathy, and then being asked to fire the weapon that will kill him - keeping her in the background while putting the emphasis on a much less interesting character was a poor decision.

[Godzilla21]

I don't think any film in the series has gone from being so high on fans lists to dropping so low.

[eabaker]

I don't think any film in the series has gone from being so high on fans lists to dropping so low.

Right? In the mid-90s, this was the modern Godzilla movie to watch according to most polls and write-ups.

[Godzilla21]

I remember G Fan acting like it was the best film ever.

I can still find some enjoyment in the film. But its def gone from my top 10 to top 20.

[cloverfan98]

I personally love this film but it has been a while since I've watched it. With that being said while it does have the weakest visual design I think MG2 deserves a bit more recognition I mean as far as I can recall of the top of my head he's the only one of Godzilla's opponents to actually KILL Godzilla. Many have beaten him but killing the Big Guy is something else entirely.

[Zarm]

But, I mean, he does it via Deus Ex Machina. It's not like he did it with his combat abilities (despite some fans insistence that he would have). He was basically just a big gun that someone else pulled the trigger of; a psychic-assisted kill-shot to an invented one-film weakness delivered via a MechaGodzilla-shaped container for a glorified taser.

Honestly, Miki Segusa is the one who killed Godzilla.

[KaijuCanuck]

Head canon/fan theory: is the plasma grenade an upgraded version of the reflection technology used in Super X2?

[Rhedosaurus]

This is one of my favorite movies. I saw this when I was 18 back in 2006. My school had to start late due to something with the SAT's/MEAP's, I forgot which one. I caught either the final 1/2 or the final 2/3. I was impressed. What really blew me away was just how powerful and durable the Heisei Mechagodzilla truly was. It killed Rodan and crippled, if not temporarily killed, Godzilla. Very few could claim those feats.

I saw the whole thing years later. I was even more impressed. The story is good and the musical score, sets, and SFX are great. Rodan's redesign is fantastic, although I do wish that he'd been made more durable. We also got Godzilla's son and the storyline connection between him and Rodan being his big brother is really interesting. The Heisei Mechagodzilla is a bit of a mixed bag. Yeah, he has that dopey grin and the hips are a bit large, but his capabilities and durability make up for that.

The message of organic life eventually trumping that of technology is a nice one.

One of the better Godzilla movies of the Heisei era.

[JAGzilla]

I've never been impressed with the movie as a whole, although I did enjoy it more than I expected to on the last viewing in 2013. I will agree that Mechagodzilla's power is a spectacle, particularly the Plasma Grenade. It's not every day you see a beam weapon hit hard enough to pick Godzilla up and throw him.

And it should always be reiterated that Ifukube knocked this movie's score out of the park.

[Godzilla21]

Why do you guys supposed this movie was so highly regarded when it came out yet has fallen so much from grace? Its unlike any other film in the series. Everyone knew SpaceGodzilla sucked from day one. Yet this one has fallen hard

[eabaker]

Why do you guys supposed this movie was so highly regarded when it came out yet has fallen so much from grace? Its unlike any other film in the series. Everyone knew SpaceGodzilla sucked from day one. Yet this one has fallen hard

The initial response had a lot to do with spectacle, and spectacle doesn't always have a lot of repeat value. Some movies get better and better with each viewing, and some... not so much.

[Grievous]

Well...Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla II is tied for my favorite of this era...
(along with Biollante)...and I have to be honest & state that it isn't
perfect but for me it is the most most balanced & even of the Heisei
films with great kaiju, great action, likeable characters & a tremendous
finale.

For me everything fits together nicely into a complete 90's Godzilla film.

[JAGzilla]

Its monster lineup has to be a factor in that initial popularity. Besides Godziller himself (with the addition of a flashy new beam), it resurrected Rodan as an enemy-turned-ally for Godzilla, redesigned Mechagodzilla as a human built 'good guy' with some kickass abilities, and gave us a new Son of Godzilla that wasn't Minya. It's easy to take those things for granted twenty-five years later, but they must've been a big deal at the time.

[Grievous]

Its monster lineup has to be a factor in that initial popularity. Besides Godziller himself (with the addition of a flashy new beam), it resurrected Rodan as an enemy-turned-ally for Godzilla, redesigned Mechagodzilla as a human built 'good guy' with some kickass abilities, and gave us a new Son of Godzilla that wasn't Minya. It's easy to take those things for granted twenty-five years later, but they must've been a big deal at the time.

And for me the best thIng about these "developments" is they feel natural
& earned...like the series was slowly building up momentum & stakes as
it went on.

First Godzilla on his own...
Then Godzilla vs. a clone...
Then Ghidorah returned...
Then Mothra returned with the added twist of an Evil Mothra...
& then MechaGodzilla, Rodan & a new Son of Godzilla...

It felt like a natural escalation of stakes...which is why I find
SpaceGodzilla so lackluster & Destoroyah has its moments...but
its a fairly uneven film carried mainly by an amazing Godzilla suit
& the meltdown threat running throughout it.

I'm not really a Destoroyah fan either...

He's just a recycled version of Hedorah with ties to the oxygen
destroyer...and it feels incredibly forced in my opinion.

I remember reading GvMGII was meant to be the final film of the
Heisei series...but there was a change of plans...and I can honestly
state it would have been a fitting end for the series.