Talkback: Gorath (1962)

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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by eabaker »

I think you guys are mostly ignoring the key aspect of PitchBlackProgress's question, which is why specifically American fans obsess over these monsters.
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by Mr. Yellow »

Well...I'm from America and I'm explaining why I like them? *shrug*
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by Spuro »

eabaker wrote:I think you guys are mostly ignoring the key aspect of PitchBlackProgress's question, which is why specifically American fans obsess over these monsters.
Same reason any other western fan might obsess over them? I don't think that key aspect is relevant at all.
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by eabaker »

Kaiju-King42 wrote:
eabaker wrote:I think you guys are mostly ignoring the key aspect of PitchBlackProgress's question, which is why specifically American fans obsess over these monsters.
Same reason any other western fan might obsess over them? I don't think that key aspect is relevant at all.
Fine, sorry for being unintentionally America-centric. The question of why Western fans in particular is still the one on the table, and is not really being addressed.
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by Ivo-goji »

Can anyone prove Japanese fans don't obsess over obscure kaiju? Cuz I'm 100% sure they do too.
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by Mr_Goji_and_Watch »

Japanese fans don't seem to raise a fit with the lack of monsters in the anime movies like we do over here so I'd assume that they also don't obsess over one off monsters.
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by edgaguirus »

It might be cultural. What one culture values another may not. These obscure kaiju may not interest Japan as much as it does us.
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by Maritonic »

I don't know if "obsess" is the right word, but we are getting a Varan x-plus very shortly? I'd assume the Godzilla/Kaiju-Fans (kaiju groupies) in Japan enjoy the obscure oddities of this franchise as much as any other fan would.

I think it depends on how deep in the fandom you are. Take someone like Batman for example. If you're super into Batman, well read, and well versed in all things Batman (as all of us here are with Godzilla/kaiju), you may occasionally go "Man, I wish we got to see some more of King Tut."

Personally, I don't think Varan, the Gargantuas, or Moguera should be lumped into this. They were at least featured in their films. Someone like Maguma/Magma is there for a moment and doesn't serve the narrative. But again; he's an oddity. So people are fascinated by him. I don't think that's exclusive to Western audiences, I think that's just what we're exposed to.

And yeah, Skele-turtle is a joke as is Giant Condor (I fucking hope).
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by Zarm »

I dunno... the Condor is a joke, but I am honestly intrigued by Skeleturtle. It hints at this whole other fantasy-creature ecosystem on the island we never get to see...
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by MaxRebo320 »

I think Maguma/Magma is fun, albeit very out-of-place, mostly because he's a giant fucking walrus. I wouldn't have been against him being included in DAM (even if he probably wouldn't have done much) or whatever, but the fact he's pretty much all people tend to talk about in Gorath, when there is so much more, is pretty upsetting.

Wanna see more of Maguma so bad? Watch episode 27 of Ultra Q.
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by UltramanGoji »

MaxRebo320 wrote:but the fact he's pretty much all people tend to talk about in Gorath, when there is so much more, is pretty upsetting.
This is one of the reasons why I kinda dislike his inclusion in the film. He's a beautifully pure tokusatsu design, but he has no business being in the movie other than a small boost at the box office. The rest of the movie is so much better.
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by MaxRebo320 »

I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying the more obscure or under-utilized monsters, but the way in which fandumb plays them up as "lost classics" that are bound to return someday is weird. Like, I enjoy Maguma for the reasons I listed above, and while it WOULD be fun to see him return in some form (Likely an extended cameo ala Kamoebas in Tokyo SOS), I don't lose sleep over it.

But look, here we are again talking about the giant walrus that was added in at the last minute over everything else in the film. Pretty sad.
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by Mr. Yellow »

I think you guys are overthinking it. It's a thrill when one of these obscurities is somehow suddenly remembered and included in something official. Like seeing Gezora in the comics, Kamoebas in Tokyo S.O.S or Baragon in GMK. There's been other instances of creators wanting to use other monsters as well.
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

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Mr. Yellow wrote:I think you guys are overthinking it. It's a thrill when one of these obscurities is somehow suddenly remembered and included in something official. Like seeing Gezora in the comics, Kamoebas in Tokyo S.O.S or Baragon in GMK..
Right, this is kind of where I come from with it.

If they were to show some Monster Island in a future film and Maguma was chilling there, my reaction would be "oh man, that's cool!" not "ugh that fucking walrus from Gorath that people keep talking about."

I think there are just a handful of obscure, random kaiju that people enjoy. Not much wrong with that.
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by BlankAccount »

Gorath isn't a kaiju film, but it is a film with a kaiju in it.

That's what makes this otherwise straightforward film odd. If it had it's own film where it's the focus, Maguma would be the biggest problem, but since the world is ending the world literally has bigger problems than some giant monster.

TLDR: Just cause your film has a monster in it doesn't mean it's a monster film.

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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by Maritonic »

Living Corpse wrote:Gorath isn't a kaiju film, but it is a film with a kaiju in it.

That's what makes this otherwise straightforward film odd. If it had it's own film where it's the focus, Maguma would be the biggest problem, but since the world is ending the world literally has bigger problems than some giant monster.

TLDR: Just cause your film has a monster in it doesn't mean it's a monster film.
Is anyone really claiming it's a monster film, though?
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by Mr. Yellow »

Maritonic wrote:
Living Corpse wrote:Gorath isn't a kaiju film, but it is a film with a kaiju in it.

That's what makes this otherwise straightforward film odd. If it had it's own film where it's the focus, Maguma would be the biggest problem, but since the world is ending the world literally has bigger problems than some giant monster.

TLDR: Just cause your film has a monster in it doesn't mean it's a monster film.
Is anyone really claiming it's a monster film, though?
It’s weird but I kinda struggle with this. When classifying something as “giant monster movie” to me the monster has to be mostly integral to the plot, most of the time. But then I look at things like most of Harryhausen stuff and rethink it...

It’s also why I don’t place the newer Sharksaurus vs. Croctopus, etc into the same genre. Not sure why,
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by Maritonic »

Mr. Yellow wrote:
Maritonic wrote:
Living Corpse wrote:Gorath isn't a kaiju film, but it is a film with a kaiju in it.

That's what makes this otherwise straightforward film odd. If it had it's own film where it's the focus, Maguma would be the biggest problem, but since the world is ending the world literally has bigger problems than some giant monster.

TLDR: Just cause your film has a monster in it doesn't mean it's a monster film.
Is anyone really claiming it's a monster film, though?
It’s weird but I kinda struggle with this. When classifying something as “giant monster movie” to me the monster has to be mostly integral to the plot, most of the time. But then I look at things like most of Harryhausen stuff and rethink it...

It’s also why I don’t place the newer Sharksaurus vs. Croctopus, etc into the same genre. Not sure why,
I meant right now within the confines of the conversation.
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by UltramanGoji »

Maritonic wrote:
Mr. Yellow wrote:I think you guys are overthinking it. It's a thrill when one of these obscurities is somehow suddenly remembered and included in something official. Like seeing Gezora in the comics, Kamoebas in Tokyo S.O.S or Baragon in GMK..
Right, this is kind of where I come from with it.

If they were to show some Monster Island in a future film and Maguma was chilling there, my reaction would be "oh man, that's cool!" not "ugh that fucking walrus from Gorath that people keep talking about."

I think there are just a handful of obscure, random kaiju that people enjoy. Not much wrong with that.
I mean, I'd have the same reaction too. It's just that Gorath is a really good film and anytime I hear people talking about it, it's only the Maguma scenes. Kind of a "Really?" moment.
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Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Post by szmigiel »

Gorath is my favorite Toho space epics. I would like to say without a kaiju, but obviously I can't. I like the overall story, the fact there are no villains to speak of, just characters doing heroic things to help save mankind. Sure moving the planet with giant thrusters is crony, but they do present it as a desperate plan, and it wrecks all sorts of havoc. So even though it is a corny and unrealistic, they present it in a believable way.

I don't hate the scenes with Maguma but they are not necessary, they feel like padding. I don't think the English language loses anything by cutting it, however it is just a bit confusing trying to figure out what the characters are doing. Maguma is the most unnecessary kaiju in any Toho film. Manda is at least a threat to the Atragon, and fits into the film a bit better.

As for fans having devotions to some of the lesser seen kaiju, this is common in any fandom. When you deep dive into a fandom there is always aspects that fans would like to have seen more developed. In wrestling terms everyone knows the main eventers and they have plenty of fans. But the more hardcore fans always have the midcarders and young talent they want to see pushed and become a bigger part of the promotion.

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