Your fears for The World of Godzilla

For the discussion of Godzilla Resurgence, the Godzilla anime trilogy and Toho produced and distributed films after 2015. Includes US movies financed by Toho like Detective Pikachu.
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Dv-218
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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby Dv-218 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:59 am

Just here to throw my few cents:

While i'm not exactly the biggest fan of anime Godzilla, i'll admit that the plant based origin is not really an issue- especially since aside from the terraforming, it has absolutely zero impact on the actual movie. The creature still looks, acts and sounds like Godzilla, complete with a blue weapon.

And while I defenitely prefer a more reptilian Godzilla, the notion that he HAS to be a mutated dinosaur is rather stupid. Especially since he was confirmed to be a dinosaur only in one continuity- 1954/showa just mention that he's an "amphibian prehistoric reptile", millenium doesn't mention any of the origins at all (except for GMK perhaps), and in the Monsterverse it's pretty clear that he is a creature older than any dinosaur.
Bottom line, I wouldn't mind if he's not a mutated dinosaur in "World of Godzilla" or something like that. Personally, I always viewed Godzilla as either a derived, semiaquatic archosaur more related to crocodillians (Legendary especially fits this), or a semiaquatic synapsid (due to the mammalian features).
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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby KillCrites » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:13 am

On the Godzilla origins thing: One of my favorite things about Godzilla is that how versatile he is in appearance, role, or origin. I'm always open to new interpretations of him. But I think that if they're making 1 Godzilla that will be in this universe that's supposed to go on for years and years to come, they won't do anything to drastically different like Shin or AniGoji and would maybe try to make a "DEFINITIVE" Godzilla.

On topic: I fear that they'll neglect Godzilla's lesser known foes in the beginning, Toho seems to have an obsession with forcing King Ghidorah, Mothra, Mechagodzilla, and Rodan and I really don't want them to show up right away especially so soon after the anime trilogy and KOTM.
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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby Dv-218 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:32 am

Imo if they do plan to make a cinematic universe, I think they should use the opportunity that KG, Mothra and Rodan are "preoccupied" (so to speak) with KOTM and the monsterverse, and focus on some of the lesser known monsters in the beginning.
I would especially love to see Varan get another chance :)

And I defenitely agree with the Godzilla origin thing.
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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby KillCrites » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:37 am

Dv-218 wrote:I would especially love to see Varan get another chance :)

I need Varan in a new movie so bad.
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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby szmigiel » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:11 am

They will shove Mothra's whole life cycle into a single movie instead of taking their time and doing over the course of several films.

Ideally they will start with an old adult Mothra that has been around ages, there are legends, sitings, etc... through history. She has to sacrifice herself to take out a threat, at the end of the movie we see a larva emerge from an egg. Then when guest appearing in other movies we just see the larva getting a little bigger each appearance. When they are building up to a team up the larva then goes into the cocoon and then during the climax emerges and is actually crucial part of the battle and victory. From that point forward Mothra remains adult, and powerful.

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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby Godzillian » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:58 am

szmigiel wrote:They will shove Mothra's whole life cycle into a single movie instead of taking their time and doing over the course of several films.l.

They did that in the first Mothra film and it worked fine
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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby szmigiel » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:43 pm

Godzillian wrote:They did that in the first Mothra film and it worked fine

They do it almost every movie Mothra appears in. It's like Mothra can go from egg, to larva, to cocoon, to adult in just a few hours (ROM). It would be nice if they took their time for a change. Knowing you want to do multiple movies means you don't need to rush through things.

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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby eabaker » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:19 pm

szmigiel wrote:
Godzillian wrote:They did that in the first Mothra film and it worked fine

They do it almost every movie Mothra appears in. It's like Mothra can go from egg, to larva, to cocoon, to adult in just a few hours (ROM). It would be nice if they took their time for a change. Knowing you want to do multiple movies means you don't need to rush through things.


Yeah, but even knowing that they intend to do multiple movies, I'd prefer that each movie tell a complete story that explores the potential of the central characters/monsters as much as possible. I don't want something important delayed for a future movie, at the expense of the movie I'm actually sitting and watching.
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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby szmigiel » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:30 am

eabaker wrote:
szmigiel wrote:
Godzillian wrote:They did that in the first Mothra film and it worked fine

They do it almost every movie Mothra appears in. It's like Mothra can go from egg, to larva, to cocoon, to adult in just a few hours (ROM). It would be nice if they took their time for a change. Knowing you want to do multiple movies means you don't need to rush through things.


Yeah, but even knowing that they intend to do multiple movies, I'd prefer that each movie tell a complete story that explores the potential of the central characters/monsters as much as possible. I don't want something important delayed for a future movie, at the expense of the movie I'm actually sitting and watching.

You can still do a complete story without having to have Mothra go through all her forms in one movie. Having an elderly Mothra fight to the bitter end win the fight but ends up dying, and just see the egg hatching at the end isn't cutting her story short. The larva doesn't need to avenge the death of the old form to be a complete story. Or if you do the story where the larva form hatches you can still end it going into a cocoon, not needing to hatch, leaving the emergence of the adult form to a dramatic moment in another film.

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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby eabaker » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:43 am

szmigiel wrote:
eabaker wrote:
szmigiel wrote:They do it almost every movie Mothra appears in. It's like Mothra can go from egg, to larva, to cocoon, to adult in just a few hours (ROM). It would be nice if they took their time for a change. Knowing you want to do multiple movies means you don't need to rush through things.


Yeah, but even knowing that they intend to do multiple movies, I'd prefer that each movie tell a complete story that explores the potential of the central characters/monsters as much as possible. I don't want something important delayed for a future movie, at the expense of the movie I'm actually sitting and watching.

You can still do a complete story without having to have Mothra go through all her forms in one movie. Having an elderly Mothra fight to the bitter end win the fight but ends up dying, and just see the egg hatching at the end isn't cutting her story short. The larva doesn't need to avenge the death of the old form to be a complete story. Or if you do the story where the larva form hatches you can still end it going into a cocoon, not needing to hatch, leaving the emergence of the adult form to a dramatic moment in another film.


If one of those choices is organic to the story they're telling, sure, great. My point is that they shouldn't leave out anything relevant to the story being told in anticipation of a different movie coming along later.

The themes of transformation and rebirth are so fundamental to Mothra as a character, leaving them out of or minimizing them in her first appearance in this series would only work if the filmmakers were building their story around a new, equally powerful hook that felt just as true to the character.
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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:47 pm

I agree without eabaker, worrying about what’s going to happen in the next film following is a bad move imo and is why the anime fails.
Yeah, Godzilla wins... sometimes. I mean, he was killed by Dr. Serizawa's patented bubble-bath formula, heartburn, missiles, and poor box office returns, got his ass kicked by a drunken, circus-escaped gorilla, then he was beaten by two newborn worms, yeah some “king”.
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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby Shin Gabara » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:45 am

Love the idea of Mothra getting a multi-part film arc *within* (unlike the part-of-Heisei-but-separate trilogy) the larger Toho universe.
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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby szmigiel » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:02 pm

eabaker wrote:The themes of transformation and rebirth are so fundamental to Mothra as a character

It has been so overused now, becoming the only part of Mothra character, she has become a one trick pony.

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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby SoggyNoodles2016 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:22 pm

szmigiel wrote:
eabaker wrote:The themes of transformation and rebirth are so fundamental to Mothra as a character

It has been so overused now, becoming the only part of Mothra character, she has become a one trick pony.

Right, and we should get rid of that whole "nuclear thing for Godzilla. I mean, we don't want him to become a one trick pony. :roll:
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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:36 pm

SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:
szmigiel wrote:
eabaker wrote:The themes of transformation and rebirth are so fundamental to Mothra as a character

It has been so overused now, becoming the only part of Mothra character, she has become a one trick pony.

Right, and we should get rid of that whole "nuclear thing for Godzilla. I mean, we don't want him to become a one trick pony. :roll:

They did, it's on Netflix right now.
Yeah, Godzilla wins... sometimes. I mean, he was killed by Dr. Serizawa's patented bubble-bath formula, heartburn, missiles, and poor box office returns, got his ass kicked by a drunken, circus-escaped gorilla, then he was beaten by two newborn worms, yeah some “king”.
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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby szmigiel » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:11 am

SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:
szmigiel wrote:
eabaker wrote:The themes of transformation and rebirth are so fundamental to Mothra as a character

It has been so overused now, becoming the only part of Mothra character, she has become a one trick pony.

Right, and we should get rid of that whole "nuclear thing for Godzilla. I mean, we don't want him to become a one trick pony. :roll:

They have plenty of times, the whole nuclear allegory slowly disappears over the course of the Showa series. By the Champion Festival films he is a full on superhero. The whole creature born of mankind messing with the power of the atom becoming a physical manifestation of mans mistakes, has become our protector, so I guess it was a good thing.

I am not saying get rid of Mothra rebirth aspect, just don't rush it. She is one of Toho's big three, she is going to be a big part of any cinematic universe they are going to try. Play up the goddess angle, the fact that she is intelligent, they can even go with Earth guardian angle with magic powers with her glowing circles. They can bring back Battra to be a Ying and Yang aspect. Lots of thing to go with other then just kill her and have her transform to a slightly different looking moth every movie.

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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby SoggyNoodles2016 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:30 am

Bad example, but I still stand by my point. The rebirth aspect is a major part of Mothra's character. You can do it without that aspect and make a good character (example: GMK Ghidorah works without the destroyer aspect and Tom Harry's Bane works without Venom) but it is still a major part we can't just toss out.
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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby eabaker » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:16 am

And I stand by my point, as well, which is that I don't want to see a movie's organic storyline and thematic development cut short in order to hold something back for sequels.
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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby Shin Gabara » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:22 am

Is it so 'zero-sum', though? I'm sure within the cosmically vast Library of Babel-esque script-space of 90-120 minute films there are more than a few good handful that juggle both well? Not saying it wouldn't be tricky

Off hand, Mothra's really one of a very small number of characters that could benefit from being handled in such a way, due to the variation inherent to the character.
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Re: Your fears for The World of Godzilla

Postby Godzillian » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:46 am

With so much time before WOG even goes before a camera I'd hope Toho would take the time to get quality scripts together and plan a course for the universe. I don't want them shoving in as much crap to set up future films like DCEU and Dark universe did.
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