GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Maritonic » Thu May 31, 2018 9:34 am

Omegamorph wrote:
Maritonic wrote:Aside from a boat being attacked and discovering a foot print, I'd genuinely like to know what the others are. The article compared Broderick's character to Serizawa and I literally laughed out loud. They claim there are multiple call backs. I count two. Three if you mention the origins of his name.

The aforementioned 'sonar detecting the approaching monster' is another. Not from 54 specifically but used in others (84, namely). The entire first act is essentially based on the old formula -- obviously reworked -- and some character archetypes (scientist / cameraman & reporter / secret agent) had already been used in Godzilla films. That would be essentially it, unless I'm missing some


I don't consider those call backs, I consider those monster movie tropes. The scientist/cameraman/reporter/secret agent are all tropes of the entire monster movie film universe, such as it is. Watch any 50's or 60's monster flick, and those characters (MAYBE not the cameraman) will be present.

Disagreement aside, these aren't points in Godzilla 1998's favor or to glorify it as some sort of homage to the originals as Devlin/the writer of this article likes to make it seem. There are still critical issues with the film that even if it WAS full of call backs, are not saved by them.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Omegamorph » Thu May 31, 2018 9:39 am

Maritonic wrote:I don't consider those call backs, I consider those monster movie tropes.

Specific tropes that have been used in the original Godzilla and in some of the sequels, thus allowing a general use of the term 'call-back' to define them. Agreement with the definition of 'call-back' may vary
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Maritonic » Thu May 31, 2018 9:46 am

Omegamorph wrote:
Maritonic wrote:I don't consider those call backs, I consider those monster movie tropes.

Specific tropes that have been used in the original Godzilla and in some of the sequels, thus allowing a general use of the term 'call-back' to define them. Agreement with the definition of 'call-back' may vary


It's a weak excuse to justify a poorly made film.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Omegamorph » Thu May 31, 2018 9:50 am

Maritonic wrote:It's a weak excuse to justify a poorly made film.

Must've missed the part where no-one in that article is justifying the film -- Devlin goes at it harshly, and the writer only says a couple positives about it

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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Maritonic » Thu May 31, 2018 9:52 am

Omegamorph wrote:
Maritonic wrote:It's a weak excuse to justify a poorly made film.

Must've missed the part where no-one in that article is justifying the film -- Devlin goes at it harshly, and the writer only says a couple positives about it


Devlin doesn't go at it harshly. He even says it makes him sad that their Godzilla isn't included with others "we're not even good enough to be cheesy?". The writer even says "It's not as bad as you remember" that sounds like defending a film, not going into it.

Look, all I'm saying is have all the call backs you want, it's a poorly made film in it of itself, Godzilla or not. Devlin admits to some errors, but mostly seems to blame them on "pressures" and that Emmerich didn't have passion.

Added in 4 minutes 2 seconds:
"And in hindsight, in an era filled with bloated CGI blockbusters, Godzilla actually stands as more of a quaint, human-driven story.

"I think in one regard it was judged overly harshly and in another regard, we didn't live up to what we needed to do in taking on something as iconic as Godzilla," he reflects. "Some of it was our failings and some of it was a perception problem. When people see the movie now where they have very low expectations that they tend to go, oh, that movie's actually pretty good.""
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Omegamorph » Thu May 31, 2018 10:02 am

Maritonic wrote:Devlin doesn't go at it harshly.

No? Saying there's 'big problems with it', 'an idea that is not compelling filmmaking', 'it's not very fulfilling', 'the monster's death is supposed to be emotional but it doesn't come across as that', 'they didn't live up to the hype' etc all seem to point to that. Of course he doesn't say it's bottom-of-the-barrel but he ain't singing praise at all

Maritonic wrote:He even says it makes him sad
'Laughing'. It's a joke

Maritonic wrote:Look, all I'm saying is have all the call backs you want, it's a poorly made film in it of itself, Godzilla or not.

You asked where the 'call-backs' were and got the answer for that. Perceived quality of the film is neither here nor there in the argument
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Maritonic » Thu May 31, 2018 10:04 am

Omegamorph wrote:
Maritonic wrote:Devlin doesn't go at it harshly.

No? Saying there's 'big problems with it', 'an idea that is not compelling filmmaking', 'it's not very fulfilling', 'the monster's death is supposed to be emotional but it doesn't come across as that', 'they didn't live up to the hype' etc all seem to point to that

Maritonic wrote:He even says it makes him sad
'Laughing'. It's a joke

Maritonic wrote:Look, all I'm saying is have all the call backs you want, it's a poorly made film in it of itself, Godzilla or not.

You asked where the 'call-backs' were and you got your answer


No, I didn't get my answer. I got references to generic monster movie tropes, which are NOT call backs to Gojira 1954 as claimed. I chose to agree to disagree and say even if there ARE call backs, it's still a fundamentally poorly made film. So, you're still picking a fight. If you like the movie, that's great man. Nothing wrong with that.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Omegamorph » Thu May 31, 2018 10:12 am

'picking a fight'

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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Zarm » Thu May 31, 2018 10:18 am

I think there may be a bit of a miscommunication going on here. Let me see if I've got it straight:
The disagreement seems to lie on whether a few of the scenes in the 1998 film count as homages to Gojira. There is also a disagreement on whether the article is actually defending Godzilla 1998 or just noting certain qualities in passing. Neither side seems to be interested in continuing the disagreement.

Separately, both parties seem to agree that even if the scenes in question are homages, they do not suddenly make the film not-bad, which is the important thing here. :)

Does that sum up correctly? Because I think everything else is making clarifications on phrasing, grammar, and minor misstatements that seems to both sides like further argument but is really just unintentional pedantry. Like, I think you maybe both think the other is still disagreeing on some other point rather than the above, when instead it's just an accidental 'talking past each-other'.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby daveblackeye15 » Thu May 31, 2018 11:04 pm

I do like the writer seemed to have some knowledge of Godzilla. They pointed out 'well I think we're supposed to feel just a little sympathy for Godzilla when we see him sleeping and enduring a horrible death.'

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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby LegendZilla » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:23 pm

My dad has always had this film as a guilty pleasure of his and till this day adamantly defends this version of Godzilla.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby GojiDog » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:19 am

At the time, I hated the movie so much that when Phantom Menace came out a year later, I was virtually un-phased by it.

Everyone was all like "Oh my God! Jar Jar!" and "Oh my God! Pod Races!" and "Oh my God! Boring Political Stuff!" and I was like "They shot him...they just...shot him with missiles and he died. WHATS UP WITH THAT?!?!". The film kind of left me in a fog.

Now I was 13 at the time of the Tristar film's release and it is the first time I remember being excited for something and then being royally disappointed. Looking back on it, I should have known better but I was caught up in the mostly great marketing. I mean my God, that New Year's Eve trailer had me super stoked, but given who was involved in making the film, I should have realized what I was in for. I don't want to sound like I'm being too harsh on them, but the Independence Day guys specialize in schlock. That's what they do, so me expecting something grand and wonderful was pure youthful delusion and ignorance on my part.

I saw the film once in theaters and was like "Huh...that didn't just happen". Then I saw it again when it came out on video just to see if it would grow on me...it didn't. I still hated it, and I just couldn't believe how much they dropped the ball with Godzilla.

And for me, it goes beyond a redesign and CGI being used over practical effects. To me, they took a property that I loved and tried to mold it into something more digestible for American audiences, meaning, they tried to make this weird Jurassic Park/ID4 hybrid because those movies were super popular at the time. The end result was something that, as Toho put it, took the "God" out of "Godzilla".

And I was angry about it for a long time. Even after the 90s Heisei films finally got a Stateside release and the Millennium films came out with G2K getting a theatrical release in the states, I was still upset over what I considered to be an abomination.

Years passed and I decided to give it another chance around the time the Legendary film came out in 2014. OK, I still don't like it, but I've softened up towards it a little bit. And to be honest, it is hard for me to stay mad when I've gotten 8 live action Godzilla films since then (both US and Japanese), an animated trilogy, and an eventual showdown with Kong to look forward to. And also looking back on it, it was because of the release of the film that the 90s films finally got released in the states, and to be honest, the animated series that spun off from the movie was pretty solid, so its not like nothing good came out of it.

As for the movie itself, again, I am not the biggest fan of Emmerich and Devlin's work. At best, I enjoy ID4 for how ridiculous it is, because again, they specialize in high budget schlock. That said, Godzilla is probably their least awful film behind ID4. And there are some things I appreciated about the film. Jean Reno for starters is the best thing in the movie, and there are a few scenes that capture Godzilla's grandiose nature, most notably in the build up (The "Gojira" scene, the reveal of the footprint, etc.). Now there are things I still don't like, such as the Godzilla Vs. Military scenes, how he died, the inclusion of Godzilla's raptor babies, and the sheer insanity of Godzilla being able to HIDE in one of the largest cities in the world is still mindboggling to me. Those aspects of the film keep me from accepting it as a true Godzilla movie, but instead of being angry and bitter about it, I look back on it as a creative misfire and a product of the time period rather than a malicious intent to ruin something I love.

They tried something different. It didn't work. That's all.

And like I said, I've gotten so much Godzilla material since then, including a handful of the King's best movies (GMK, Shin, and heck, I enjoyed the Legendary film), the best Godzilla comic ever (Half Century War), and the best Godzilla video games ever made with DAMM, Save the Earth, and Unleashed (OK, not saying much, but still, they're better than what came before), that its hard for me to fixate on a 20 year old cinematic mishap.

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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Shobijin » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:34 am

Saw it in the theaters, and twice since then.
Way too many good things said about this movie in this thread. None are persuasive.
Horribly written. Low end of 1990s schlock blockbusters.
Godzilla in Name Only.
Deserves to be criticized in every way possible.
There is nothing redeeming about it.
There was no reason to "try something different".

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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby eabaker » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:35 am

Shobijin wrote:There is nothing redeeming about it.
There was no reason to "try something different".


I'm no defender of this movie. I'm actually pretty consistently very harsh on it, and tend to get up in arms when anyone makes the absurd "bad Godzilla movie, but good movie on its own terms" argument; but these last couple of statements are pretty darned extremist.

I can't think of very many - if any - movies I've ever seen that had literally zero redeeming qualities. Sticking just to the Godzilla series, even the execrable Tokyo SOS has one cool shot in it (albeit one very reminiscent of Gamera 3). Godzilla '98 may be about 75% utter garbage, but there is, at the very least, some atmospheric build-up in the first half hour, and there are some decent moments to the score.

And there's basically always a reason to try something different. Sometimes, that something different is going to be lousy; but any entry in a series that doesn't try anything different is just a pointless redundancy.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Jeff-Goldblum1 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:55 pm

I was disappointed by it when I first saw it in cinemas but enjoyed it on rewatch.

At the time it was the first Godzilla film I had seen in full, as for the others SBS Australia and Briz31 used to play Godzilla and Gamera movies from time to time but back then I had only watched parts of the movies.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Terasawa » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:35 pm

eabaker wrote:but any entry in a series that doesn't try anything different is just a pointless redundancy.


Like Tokyo S.O.S.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby eabaker » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:51 pm

Terasawa wrote:
eabaker wrote:but any entry in a series that doesn't try anything different is just a pointless redundancy.


Like Tokyo S.O.S.


The one Toho Godzilla flick I place solidly below the TriStar film.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Zarm » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:15 pm

eabaker wrote:
Terasawa wrote:
eabaker wrote:but any entry in a series that doesn't try anything different is just a pointless redundancy.


Like Tokyo S.O.S.


The one Toho Godzilla flick I place solidly below the TriStar film.


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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby JAGzilla » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:25 am

There really was some great buildup in the first half hour. If the "Gojira... Gojira... Gojira..." scene had taken place in any other movie, I guarantee it would be one of the most beloved, classic scenes in the franchise.

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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby ManuJM1997 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:36 am

JAGzilla wrote:There really was some great buildup in the first half hour. If the "Gojira... Gojira... Gojira..." scene had taken place in any other movie, I guarantee it would be one of the most beloved, classic scenes in the franchise.

This

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