Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

[PitchBlackProgress]

But none of those movies - including Shin - come anywhere close to receiving "nothing but praise." The threads dedicate to them are all full of both praise and criticism. That variety of opinions is a big part of what provides topics for discussion.

Obviously I haven't counted posts and done the math, but subjectively the main Shin thread already strikes me as at times overwhelmingly negative.

That is... definitely a different experience than I've had. I've literally never seen a negative thing said about Shin before this post was created....

Then you obviously haven't explored these forums well enough then, I tend to always see posts from kids around here proclaiming the film's "boring" or that they "bastardized Godzilla's character". Trust me, this topic is far from being the only thread with negative things said about this film, far from it

[Zarm]

I guess I just have bad luck on the threads I choose to frequent. Kind of like how I always manage to find websites with Doctor Who spoilers, even if I'm, like, looking up a taco recipe or something.

[Jomei]

Or maybe the people who stop getting anything out of it after a first viewing simply have hit the limit of their comprehension and appreciation.

Muh Anno's Vision™.

I always appreciate when someone illustrates a point for me.

[Spuro]

At the very least, let's leet the 'something negative about shin' thread be the 'something negative about shin' thread. It does make The Shin fandom feel a bit overbearing when there can't be a single thread on the forums that is not leavened by claims of Shin being the best Godzilla film of all time. I recognize this is completely unintentional thing, an audience-reading rather than an author-intent... but it's not doing anything to help relations between the two camps.

I'd say that having a thread entirely dedicated to making negative statements about the movie is already potentially doing a lot of harm to relations between the two camps.

Eh, you could say that about most of the films that have this sort of thread. LPG has one, GMK has one, I *think* vs Destoroyah has one (though that may well just extend to the entire Heisei series.)

[Demon Lord Gira]

So, what I'm reading here is, if you don't get increased enjoyment and "enlightenment" from Shin on multiple watchings, they're just too stupid and degenerate to fully appreciate what they're seeing?

Yeah, let's not lowkey try to insult each other. Just because someone doesn't get increased enjoyment out of your favorite movie, doesn't mean they're an idiot. If a person doesn't get "enlightened" after a second or third viewing, there's nothing wrong with them.

[Jomei]

if you don't get increased enjoyment and "enlightenment" from Shin on multiple watchings, they're just too stupid and degenerate to fully appreciate what they're seeing

I would never, ever say that on TK.

[LegendZilla]

The usage of dated stock music and sound effects took you out of the picture.
A native-Japanese actress playing a supposedly second-generation American.
The spine and tail-lasers.

[Gailah 1966]

He just moved not enough. But the in the anime it was way worse...

[PitchBlackProgress]

He just moved not enough.

Only in the beginning though, if you rewatch the film, he gradually moves and becomes much more lively after he's attacked by the stealth bombers, notice the way he quickly whips his head around to fire the atomic breath, and how fast he moves during the climax.

But the in the anime it was way worse...

Yikes, don't remind me

[LockBite]

The movie comes off as insanely nationalistic. Everything is stubbornly right-wing aside from its anti-nuke message, which stems more from ethnocentrism and traditionalism than logic. It’s not necessarily that I disagree with this message, but it feels like a betrayal of Godzilla’s roots.

[Jomei]

The movie comes off as insanely nationalistic. Everything is stubbornly right-wing aside from its anti-nuke message, which stems more from ethnocentrism and traditionalism than logic.

I think you should explain your claims here, bub.

[Demon Lord Gira]

Friendly reminder to be respectful to each other's opinions. That is all.

[HayesAJones]

I have plenty of negative things to say about it, and I have elsewhere, but without a doubt the worst thing about it is the elitist fans who speak condescendingly to and about others, insisting that its detractors must be childish or literal children, that it's generated. Nothing is more infuriating than people trying to neuter or completely strip away your right to an opinion, and nothing attracts that worse than this movie for whatever reason. I know that's not something innate about the film itself, but the two are inseparable at least here, so I think it deserves to be mentioned.

But just to cover my bases... the climax hinges on Godzilla's arms being too useless to help push himself back up quickly, and the plan would have failed anyway if he hadn't inexplicably opened his goddamn mouth for them like staged wrestling match. Maybe he wanted the movie to end as much as I did and let them win.

[Jomei]

^That's a pedantic nitpick IN MY OPINION

Serious (albeit unimportant) negative: the CGI is inconsistent.

[Spuro]

^Mm, no, it's a plot hole. And, possibly, depending on your interpretation of the phrase: a deus ex machina.

But more importantly it robs the protagonists of their victory. The day is won not through ingenuity or teamwork, but because Godzilla was a fucking dunce.

[Jomei]

^Mm, no, it's a plot hole. And, possibly, depending on your interpretation of the phrase: a deus ex machina.

But more importantly it robs the protagonists of their victory. The day is won not through ingenuity or teamwork, but because Godzilla was a fucking dunce.

1. No, it's not a plot hole. It's not even an aspect of the plot--it's a personal nitpick of the physical logic of an action scene.
2. I guess you could say the same thing about the original Gojira. Why doesn't Godzilla just atomic breath Serizawa before he can use the Oxygen Destroyer?!?! Why does he retreat before completely wiping out the Japanese who have started attacking him??? The climax rests on Godzilla being TOO DUMB to fight back, so it robs the protags of their victory. The day is won not through sacrifice and ingenuity but through Godzilla's mere stupidity. (See how asinine this is?)

[Zarm]

Pretty sure the original Godzilla was sleeping at the end, wasn't he?

I do agree that the way Godzilla is subdued isn't a plot hole- but it is definitely a plot contrivance. The logistics of it are kind of nonsensical; it feels like a video game fight- you do a certain amount of damage and the big boss just slumps over, perfectly exposing a vulnerability,f or a set period of time, before retreating to the next round. The falling (when he tanked bigger forces before), the lolling with his mouth conveniently open, the apparently-unsealed throat that just so happens to swallow everything instead of it just dribbling out the side of his mouth... the climax is definitely hard to take seriously, as it plays these tanker trucks driving up so dramatically... to do something really silly and implausible. Godzilla does feel suddenly weaker and less juggernaut-y; being generous, I could call it being groggy from coming out of his coma, or something. But he is definitely nerfed to permit the logistically-unlikely climax to occur, and falls exactly into the needed places just a little too perfectly.

[Jomei]

Pretty sure the original Godzilla was sleeping at the end, wasn't he?

I do agree that the way Godzilla is subdued isn't a plot hole- but it is definitely a plot contrivance.

If Shin not getting up quickly or being too passive is a plot contrivance, then Godzilla conveniently sleeping so Serizawa can kill him in the first film is a colossal sin!

Godzilla does feel suddenly weaker and less juggernaut-y; being generous, I could call it being groggy from coming out of his coma, or something. But he is definitely nerfed to permit the logistically-unlikely climax to occur, and falls exactly into the needed places just a little too perfectly.

This is what I mean by nitpicking. Actually, it's worse because it doesn't acknowledge the clearly-established plot points and the plan that justify the scene. Yes, we are shown by the film that he's spent his energy and has just been forcibly woken up. And then he's drained of whatever has restored by an onslaught of drones and, while again on low energy, probably borderline needing to return to Tired Goji Standby Mode, he is crushed under multiple skyscrapers. Things fall into place because Yaguchi plans them and because they've finally unlocked Goro's secret data, giving them the understanding of the creature they need to win.

The mouth opening? Sure, you could call that convenient. But if we're down to the level of nitpicking whether a stunned, energy-depleted kaiju's mouth will or won't be open enough for the plan, if we really have nothing more substantive to talk about than these trivialities in the weeds, then I'll just leave that point alone and let you have it.

[Zarm]

Pretty sure the original Godzilla was sleeping at the end, wasn't he?

I do agree that the way Godzilla is subdued isn't a plot hole- but it is definitely a plot contrivance.

If Shin not getting up quickly or being too passive is a plot contrivance, then Godzilla conveniently sleeping so Serizawa can kill him in the first film is a colossal sin!

Sarcasm is unnecessary. You posed the question 'why didn't Godzilla just fry Serizawa with his atomic breath?' Just answering that objection.

This is what I mean by nitpicking. Yes, we are shown by the film that he's spent his energy and has just been forcibly woken up. And then he's drained of whatever has restored by an onslaught of drones and, while again on low energy, probably borderline needing to return to Tired Goji Standby Mode, he is crushed under multiple skyscrapers. Things fall into place because Yaguchi plans them. The mouth opening? Sure, you could call that convenient. But if we're down to the level of nitpicking whether a stunned, energy-depleted kaiju's mouth will or won't be open enough for the plan, if we really have nothing more substantive to talk about than these trivialities in the weeds, then I'll just leave that point alone and let you have it.

With all due respect, your attempt to dismiss this as nitpicking doesn't make it so. Yaguchi could not plan Godzilla suddenly being vulnerable to far less powerful explosives, or falling with the exact right posture, positioning, and nonsensical swallow-reflex needed for his plan to work. It's a silly contrivance and a tonal departure from the film up to that point. The climax hinges on a series of convenient coincidences, without which the entire plan would have fallen apart, and none of which Godzilla's behavior or reactions up to that point gave any indication would/should occur.

That strikes me as 'something negative about Shin Gojira.'

[Maritonic]

My problem with the mouth-open complaint is that it's sort of just suspension of disbelief. You hit a point where you have to just accept it's a movie and kind of deal with it. It never took me out of the experience, so I'm not really sure why it's such a big issue. And I have to agree; if it's a complaint, then you really could apply it to almost any action against Godzilla to beat him in previous films. You could ask a million "whys" of the Godzilla franchise and what it boils down to is "it's a movie and it would be kinda lame if Serizawa got torched by Godzilla".