Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

For discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released from 1980 up to 1998 (includes Gamera 3)
darthzilla99
Interpol Agent
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:34 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby darthzilla99 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:02 pm

One thing that always bothered me about this movie is not the time traveling stuff (because if you read this Sci fi article http://www.scifijapan.com/articles/2007 ... -godzilla/, the time traveling stuff makes sense), but the character's reactions to it. When Godzilla 'disappears' so to speak, how come none of the Japanese Government officials ask the question "How come we remember Godzilla still if he was wiped out of history?" Is there a plot detail I missed explaining the characters obliviousness or is that just a result of the writing of the film?
Last edited by darthzilla99 on Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Your not coming off as cocky. You come off as an idiot" by SBK.

edgaguirus
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 5414
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:25 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby edgaguirus » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:45 pm

I believe it's the result of a plot hole.
Kaiju are just like people- giant, radioactive people.

Megalon went into a bar and saw Gigan. Megalon said, " Again? I thought you gave this up."
" What can I say," Gigan asked. " I'm hooked."

User avatar
KaijuCanuck
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3414
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:12 pm
Location: The Milky Way

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby KaijuCanuck » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:16 pm

darthzilla99 wrote:One thing that always bothered me about this movie is not the time traveling stuff (because if you read this Sci fi article http://www.scifijapan.com/articles/2007 ... -godzilla/, the time traveling stuff makes sense), but the character's reactions to it. When Godzilla 'disappears' so to speak, how come none of the Japanese Government officials ask the question "How come we remember Godzilla still if he was wiped out of history?" Is there a plot detail I missed explaining the characters obliviousness or is that just a result of the writing of the film?


Yeah, it’s not a very tight script. I think the writing, and the charater reactions therein, is what has caused so much confusion for fans as to what exactly happened with the timeline. For this reason, it always surprises me that that is one of the more beloved entries in the series. I mean I enjoy it quite a bit for silly kaiju fan reasons, but in terms of filmmaking it’s a pretty messy entry.
Image

User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 10770
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby eabaker » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:40 pm

KaijuCanuck wrote:
darthzilla99 wrote:One thing that always bothered me about this movie is not the time traveling stuff (because if you read this Sci fi article http://www.scifijapan.com/articles/2007 ... -godzilla/, the time traveling stuff makes sense), but the character's reactions to it. When Godzilla 'disappears' so to speak, how come none of the Japanese Government officials ask the question "How come we remember Godzilla still if he was wiped out of history?" Is there a plot detail I missed explaining the characters obliviousness or is that just a result of the writing of the film?


Yeah, it’s not a very tight script. I think the writing, and the charater reactions therein, is what has caused so much confusion for fans as to what exactly happened with the timeline. For this reason, it always surprises me that that is one of the more beloved entries in the series. I mean I enjoy it quite a bit for silly kaiju fan reasons, but in terms of filmmaking it’s a pretty messy entry.


In terms of plotting it's a messy entry, but in terms of story and theme it's a pretty strong entry.

To me, the Shindo/Godzilla/Japanese economy parallels are the heart of the movie. The plot really only exists to facilitate that.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
kamilleblu
G-Grasper
Posts: 1354
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:46 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby kamilleblu » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:30 pm

Wait. So the military never attempted to manipulate Godzilla with a psychic again? That and reinventing the ANEB seem like they would be among the most worthwhile tools in the battle against Godzilla.

User avatar
Maritonic
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5744
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:26 am
Location: UberRichNewYork

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby Maritonic » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:40 pm

kamilleblu wrote:Wait. So the military never attempted to manipulate Godzilla with a psychic again? That and reinventing the ANEB seem like they would be among the most worthwhile tools in the battle against Godzilla.


To be fair, if memory serves, after Miki uses her abilities against Godzilla in Biollante, she passes out on the oil platform. (I COULD be wrong about this, it's been a while). So they likely decided it wasn't worth the risk to her.
Resized Image

Earn Your Health.

goji89 wrote:So.......are we gonna Kinkshame the skreeonking birds or what?

User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 10770
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby eabaker » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:42 pm

Maritonic wrote:
kamilleblu wrote:Wait. So the military never attempted to manipulate Godzilla with a psychic again? That and reinventing the ANEB seem like they would be among the most worthwhile tools in the battle against Godzilla.


To be fair, if memory serves, after Miki uses her abilities against Godzilla in Biollante, she passes out on the oil platform. (I COULD be wrong about this, it's been a while). So they likely decided it wasn't worth the risk to her.


Yes, she does. It takes everything she's got.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
King of the Monsters
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 305
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby King of the Monsters » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:26 pm

The humans did try to manipulate Godzilla with Miki's psychic abilities again in Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla, with "Project T." They learned from Miki's experience in Godzilla vs. Biollante and tried to facilitate her ability to influence Godzilla using scientific equipment. They planted a receiver onto Godzilla's neck and used an amplifier to try and transmit Miki's brain waves to Godzilla. Unfortunately the project was still a failure, mainly due to Dr. Okubo's impatience and incompetence.

As for why they never tried to use the ANEB again, I would have to assume they simply didn't have the scientific expertise anymore following Shiragami's death.
Bureaucrat on Wikizilla. No, not the site on Wikia.

User avatar
Ivo-goji
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2650
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:54 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby Ivo-goji » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:38 pm

kamilleblu wrote:Wait. So the military never attempted to manipulate Godzilla with a psychic again? That and reinventing the ANEB seem like they would be among the most worthwhile tools in the battle against Godzilla.

You forgot Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla II, Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla, and Godzilla vs Destoroyah all involved military projects to manipulate or kill Godzilla with psychic aid.

ANEB required resources that did not survive the events of Godzilla vs Biollante (though it is odd that they never revisited Bio Major, who certainly had incentives to keep stealing G-Cells for their own creations...).
Resized Image

Kaiju-King42 wrote:Welcome to Toho Kingdom, where every conceivable opinion, no matter how outlandish or unpopular, is a possibility among the population.

User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 10770
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby eabaker » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:44 pm

Ivo-goji wrote:ANEB required resources that did not survive the events of Godzilla vs Biollante (though it is odd that they never revisited Bio Major, who certainly had incentives to keep stealing G-Cells for their own creations...).


I never thought about this before, but you could easily swap out Bio Major in place of the Yakuza in GvsSG.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
GalacticPetey
Futurian
Posts: 1670
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:25 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby GalacticPetey » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:25 pm

eabaker wrote:
Ivo-goji wrote:ANEB required resources that did not survive the events of Godzilla vs Biollante (though it is odd that they never revisited Bio Major, who certainly had incentives to keep stealing G-Cells for their own creations...).


I never thought about this before, but you could easily swap out Bio Major in place of the Yakuza in GvsSG.

Honestly with how little development that subplot has, it could have been anyone. You could have even named them the Red Bamboo is you were so inclined.

But I will say, having them be Bio Major would have been a fun bit of continuity.
I can't believe that Godzilla was the only surviving member of its species, but if we continue conducting nuclear tests, it's possible that another Godzilla might appear somewhere in the world again.

User avatar
Ivo-goji
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2650
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:54 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby Ivo-goji » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:24 pm

The way the early Heisei series set up all of these interesting bits of world building- Bio Major, Saradia, time travelers- it's somewhat baffling the later movies only really used the G-Force stuff.
Resized Image

Kaiju-King42 wrote:Welcome to Toho Kingdom, where every conceivable opinion, no matter how outlandish or unpopular, is a possibility among the population.

User avatar
The One and Only
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3006
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:58 pm
Location: Jamestown, PA

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby The One and Only » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:25 pm

King of the Monsters wrote:The humans did try to manipulate Godzilla with Miki's psychic abilities again in Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla, with "Project T." They learned from Miki's experience in Godzilla vs. Biollante and tried to facilitate her ability to influence Godzilla using scientific equipment. They planted a receiver onto Godzilla's neck and used an amplifier to try and transmit Miki's brain waves to Godzilla. Unfortunately the project was still a failure, mainly due to Dr. Okubo's impatience and incompetence.

As for why they never tried to use the ANEB again, I would have to assume they simply didn't have the scientific expertise anymore following Shiragami's death.

Probably the government lacked the raw materials, a.k.a. the Godzilla cells, to create more of the ANEB. Or maybe the government ,and the powers that be decided to place a moratorium on ANEB project due to some concerns over the project's aftermath. Everyone and their uncle, from Bio Major ,and the Saradians, committing some vicious acts to get ahold of the ANEB. From releasing Godzilla from Mt. Mihara to force the government to give them the bacteria. To the Saradian assassination. Even the Americans, C.I.A.'s sabotage of Shiragami's research with the G-Cells. Or Shiragami's little side project that produced Biollante. Thus giving credit to Kirishima's predictions of creating monsters worse than the Big-G. Also the media ,and public opinion swayed the Japanese government into not doing any further research into the G-Cells as well. But despite all this I doubt the Japanese government couldn't cultivate a new supply of the ANEB if they wanted to. Unless some outside agency, the Saradians, Bio-Major, take your pick, destroyed the research that developed the ANEB. The JSDF, Dr. Seiko Okouchi ,and his foundation, would've had all the research, formula for the ANEB under some pretty tight security as the development of the bacteria continued at facility. In case Shiragami, Kirishima, the other researchers ended up meeting unfortunate ends. Or even the Okouchi Foundation's lab ended up being destroyed. So for a new team, lab to complete the work on the bacteria which was necessary to the defense of Japan from Godzilla at moment's notice.
"All literature is one of three stories: a man goes on a journey, a stranger comes to town, and Godzilla Vs. Megashark. "-Leo Tolstoy.

User avatar
Zarm
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4801
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:21 pm
Location: USA, East Coast
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby Zarm » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:28 am

Ivo-goji wrote:The way the early Heisei series set up all of these interesting bits of world building- Bio Major, Saradia, time travelers- it's somewhat baffling the later movies only really used the G-Force stuff.


Well, they did use the legacy of Mecha King Ghidorah from the time travelers... but yeah, that is strange, now that you mention it.
Last edited by Zarm on Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight. :ninja:


Winner of the last-ever(?) TK Fantasy Match tournament.

#ProLife

The Zone Fighter campaign is funded and complete, with translations in progress! PM me if you want to be part of the Facebook updates group.

Maranatha!

User avatar
kamilleblu
G-Grasper
Posts: 1354
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:46 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby kamilleblu » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:06 am

Shiragami's ANEB seems far easier to reproduce than the Oxygen Destroyer. Godzilla cells shouldn't be that difficult to obtain. Better yet, what about the cryogenic technology in Godzilla vs Destoroyah? It immobilized Burning Godzilla for six hours. The Heisei Era would be the most difficult timeline to revisit with all of the OP weapons the military has at its disposal.

User avatar
Zarm
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4801
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:21 pm
Location: USA, East Coast
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby Zarm » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:18 am

I thought that the ANEB took some special skill and know-how to develop- that the knowledge kinda died with the professor. I thought that was kind of the reason he was assassinated in the first place. It's kinda the Toho equivalent of the Captain America super-soldier serum.
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight. :ninja:


Winner of the last-ever(?) TK Fantasy Match tournament.

#ProLife

The Zone Fighter campaign is funded and complete, with translations in progress! PM me if you want to be part of the Facebook updates group.

Maranatha!

User avatar
King of the Monsters
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 305
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby King of the Monsters » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:48 pm

Yeah the film gives the impression that the only person skilled enough to work with G-Cells and engineer the ANEB is Dr. Shiragami himself. That's why Bio-Major and Saradia weren't content with just stealing G-Cells and making the ANEB themselves, they were both trying to steal the ANEB Shiragami made in Japan. The project couldn't even get off the ground in Japan until Shiragami signed on. Abdul Saluman ordered SSS9 to assassinate Shiragami specifically to ensure that Japan could never produce the ANEB again, once he realized Saradia wouldn't be able to get their hands on it. The assassination seemingly accomplished exactly that.
Bureaucrat on Wikizilla. No, not the site on Wikia.

User avatar
KaijuCanuck
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3414
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:12 pm
Location: The Milky Way

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby KaijuCanuck » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:57 am

Who would you guys say wins the final fight? Emiko succeeds in pulling Godzilla out to sea, but not in permanently ending the threat and thus restoring the future timeline. Godzilla gets pulled from Tokyo against his will, but strikes a killing blow against his attacker and survives to fight another day.
Image

User avatar
UltramanGoji
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 13469
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:40 am
Location: Western New York
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby UltramanGoji » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:31 am

KaijuCanuck wrote:Who would you guys say wins the final fight? Emiko succeeds in pulling Godzilla out to sea, but not in permanently ending the threat and thus restoring the future timeline. Godzilla gets pulled from Tokyo against his will, but strikes a killing blow against his attacker and survives to fight another day.


Emiko is pretty clearly the victor, even if Godzilla survived. He wasn't killed, but he definitely was defeated.
Image

User avatar
Zarm
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4801
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:21 pm
Location: USA, East Coast
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby Zarm » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:34 am

I mean, if Godzilla ends up in the ocean not of his own volition at the end of a film, that's pretty much a defeat for him, right? That's the rule. He jumps in, it's a victory. He gets knocked in, it's a loss. It's like losing a fighting game by ring-out. :)

(Well, okay, arguably Monster Zero is the one exception to the rule, but Ghidorah runs away just to clarify that the involuntary dunking is still a Godzilla victory).
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight. :ninja:


Winner of the last-ever(?) TK Fantasy Match tournament.

#ProLife

The Zone Fighter campaign is funded and complete, with translations in progress! PM me if you want to be part of the Facebook updates group.

Maranatha!


Return to “Heisei Series (1980's-1998)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests