Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

For discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released from 1980 up to 1998 (includes Gamera 3)
User avatar
godzilla1541
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2089
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:19 pm
Location: grand terrace ca

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby godzilla1541 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:13 pm

Just rewatched this movie and my memories are correct. The Godzilla in this movie has the same sound for his beam as shin. So Destoroyah ripped off Godzilla and shin ripped off Destoroyah. This movie isn't bad at all. People say the environment stuff I'd shoved down your throats but unless you're looking for it, It doesn't really bother me. Effects are great too. Only problems I have is some green screen stuff but otherwise it's great. I just don't get why so many people hate it. Maybe the Japanese dub is different ( I only own the English cut). Or maybe it's my nostalgia as this was one of my first Godzilla movies. I actually get why Battra transformed too. He wasn't going to fight Godzilla, he did it to fight Mothra. Which makes sense as Mothra had just recently emerged as her adult stage. Also this Godzilla's roars are my favorite. They sound like the Showa roars but they don't at the same time. These are the roars I hear when I think of Godzilla. Overall one of my favorites of the franchise.

User avatar
UltramanGoji
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 14034
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:40 am
Location: Western New York
Contact:

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby UltramanGoji » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:17 pm

godzilla1541 wrote: I just don't get why so many people hate it.


I don't hate it, but it's a painfully plain film whose messages and themes are better portrayed in its predecessors (Mothra 61 and Mothra vs Godzilla).

I like the concept and look of Battra, the soundtrack isn't too bad and the change of pace from a military/government protagonist is a nice touch. Some of the effects are pretty bad, such as the Mothra Larva rampage in Tokyo, where the puppet/costume of the Mothra moves in an unnatural way and makes it look more like a toy. Some of the characters are rehashes of those from the aformentioned Mothra films and others are just not developed well enough for me to care.

It's not one of the worst in the series, but it certainly isn't anywhere near the top of my list.
Image

User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11144
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby eabaker » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:03 pm

UltramanGoji wrote:
godzilla1541 wrote: I just don't get why so many people hate it.


I don't hate it, but it's a painfully plain film whose messages and themes are better portrayed in its predecessors (Mothra 61 and Mothra vs Godzilla).

I like the concept and look of Battra, the soundtrack isn't too bad and the change of pace from a military/government protagonist is a nice touch. Some of the effects are pretty bad, such as the Mothra Larva rampage in Tokyo, where the puppet/costume of the Mothra moves in an unnatural way and makes it look more like a toy. Some of the characters are rehashes of those from the aformentioned Mothra films and others are just not developed well enough for me to care.

It's not one of the worst in the series, but it certainly isn't anywhere near the top of my list.


Yeah, I enjoy it, I recognize some strengths - obviously the Battra design, but I am also fond of the score, and I actually like the lead characters - as well as some pretty significant weaknesses, mostly in the Mothra effects. It's definitely not a high point of the series, or even one I'd be likely to put in the top 50%. And I know that my opinion is partly informed by nostalgia, since back when I first got seriously into G-fandom this one and GvsKG were the brand new entries that could only be obtained on subbed bootleg, and only those within the fandom knew existed, so they felt special.

But a lot of the vitriol thrown at it these days surprises me. So many people rank it at the very bottom of the Heisei era, but at least at a structural level it's worlds better than the directionless mess that is Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
Zarm
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4909
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:21 pm
Location: USA, East Coast
Contact:

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Zarm » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:54 am

I think, for me (someone who enjoys vs. Spacegodzilla greatly), the film is just... aimless. It feels like a retread of the last film, and while Godzilla and Battra give us something new and unique, after they disappear, the film flounders. The characters are a little too campy/silly for my tastes, the villain and environmental message are extremely overwrought and ham-fisted (especially the general who keeps melting down in the control room about how horrible things are, and the human-villain's ending rant/breakdown)... and again, between Godzilla's vanishing and reappearence, the plot is extremely slow and predictable (to me).

That said, it is a very pretty film, and the Mothra-song sequence against the sunset is one of my favorite sequences in the Heisei era (plus it's the only version I won where the song is actually subtitles so I know what the lyrics are, which I dig). Larve-Battra looks cool, and has a great underwater fight with Godzilla... so it's not like the film is without merit.

For me, this movie is mediocre, and sits smack dab in the middle between the good and the awful (which for me- though not for many people, I know- are Return of Godzilla, vs. Destroyah, and Mechagodzilla II, all of which I would rank beneath this film). For others that like those three films, though, I can understand how this one would be on the bottom (or second to Spacegodzilla, which I recognize has issues despite my affection for it).
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight. :ninja:


Winner of the last-ever(?) TK Fantasy Match tournament.

#ProLife

The Zone Fighter campaign is funded and complete, with translations in progress! PM me if you want to be part of the Facebook updates group.

Maranatha!

User avatar
The Baranosdragon
Samurai
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:45 pm

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby The Baranosdragon » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:26 am

I'm going to mirror what lots of others have said: this is easily the low point of the Heisei era.

The preachy environmental themes got agitating very quickly with the whole "HUMINZ R EBUL!!!" bullshit. We get it, humans have been causing damaging the environment. Care to offer some solution or any form of insight, rather than vehement finger-pointing?

The special effects were probably at their worst here. The cites that are destroyed don't look real in the slightest. The Godzilla suit is quite mediocre, both of Battra's forms look... fine... Mothra's imago prop is embarrassingly bad.

The human drama was incredibly bland. I can't even remember who the protagonist was.

The battle scenes were really poor, even by Heisei standards. It was all just mindless beam spraying, with the occasional destroyed building.

The best thing I can say about this film is that Ifukabe's soundtrack is as good as ever, and the updated Mothra songs are quite nice. Other than that, though? Complete and utter mediocrity.
January 1st, 1929 - August 8th, 2017. May Haruo Nakajima Rest in Peace.

User avatar
The Kongfather
Ronin
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:54 pm

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby The Kongfather » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:11 am

Just watched this last night, actually.

This is a rare Godzilla film where the human story is far more interesting that the monster story. I'm not fond of Battra and think he just dilutes Mothra's significance. His larva looks like a plastic toy, and the monster action is weak. The ocean fight is pretty much just Godzilla throwing Mothra into the water several times. I do like the score and Battra's initial rampage through the city. It's a pretty weak monster movie and a poor representation of Mothra.

User avatar
UltimateDitto
Futurian
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 10:24 pm

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby UltimateDitto » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:45 pm

Just watched this during the El Rey Christmas marathon, the environment message was fine for me, but I do admit it made me feel like I was watching a Showa Gamera film at times. :)

Bit of a rant. :?
Spoiler:
The one thing that got on my nerves was when I started noticing how the female protagonists made it seem like men (not mankind in general) were specifically responsible for the planet being skreeonked. I understand that like 95% of the problem comes from men, but the women in this movie act like they are blamless and pure.

This bugged me alot, heck I noticed this in GvMG2 and a bit in GvSG, the other Heisei movies don't really have this problem, at least from what I can remember.


Also this movie introduced one of my favorite monsters, Battra! Also Mothra is a bit if a d!¢k in this movie, but I guess it couldn't be helped in her situation. :lol:
"There's no respect for Legendary Godzilla on this site. None. Bemular? Really?" - Juan, 2019

Tournament stats: 2 wins - 3 losses
I ♡ Image

User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11144
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby eabaker » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:07 pm

UltimateDitto wrote:
Spoiler:
The one thing that got on my nerves was when I started noticing how the female protagonists made it seem like men (not mankind in general) were specifically responsible for the planet being skreeonked. I understand that like 95% of the problem comes from men, but the women in this movie act like they are blamless and pure.

This bugged me alot, heck I noticed this in GvMG2 and a bit in GvSG, the other Heisei movies don't really have this problem, at least from what I can remember.


You probably didn't need to use spoiler tags for this. It's not much of a spoiler, the movie is a quarter of a century old, and it's prettty safe to assume that almost anyone posting here has seen it.

Anyway, I wonder if what you're identifying is specific to the dub; I've never noticed anything of the kind in the movie, but I haven't bothered to watch the dub in about twenty years.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
UltimateDitto
Futurian
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 10:24 pm

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby UltimateDitto » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:36 pm

I know it isn't much of a spoiler, but I didn't want that paragraph to take up half of my post. :)

Yes I am talking about the dub, I personally haven't seen the sub version so I am not sure if that problem is in the Japanese version.
"There's no respect for Legendary Godzilla on this site. None. Bemular? Really?" - Juan, 2019

Tournament stats: 2 wins - 3 losses
I ♡ Image

User avatar
Shobijin
Ronin
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:08 pm

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Shobijin » Thu May 24, 2018 4:08 am

Was never able to get the Japanese version, buy boy, the English dub is really horrible. It's really jarring.
What's also jarring is how bad this is compared to the previous three movies. I know it's a trend to downgrade GvKG but there is a huge drop-off.

I feel like this a "jump the shark" movie- all based on the first 30 minutes with the humans. (I agree that the divorce story is actually unique for Godzilla and it was good on paper, but the movie starts off as a Raiders of the Lost Ark ripoff.)

It basically never feels like a Godzilla movie. It feels like a Mothra film with Godzilla sidelined and taking a backseat to all the other characters.

I like Battra's look and feel bad for him.

There are points as others have mentioned, but considering how good I feel the previous three movies were...was there an excuse to write such a poorly paced story and downgrade Godzilla's role?

User avatar
KaijuDuke
Interpol Agent
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:22 pm
Location: My secret lair on Monster Island >8D

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby KaijuDuke » Thu May 24, 2018 10:41 am

Shobijin wrote:Was never able to get the Japanese version, buy boy, the English dub is really horrible. It's really jarring.
What's also jarring is how bad this is compared to the previous three movies. I know it's a trend to downgrade GvKG but there is a huge drop-off.

I feel like this a "jump the shark" movie- all based on the first 30 minutes with the humans. (I agree that the divorce story is actually unique for Godzilla and it was good on paper, but the movie starts off as a Raiders of the Lost Ark ripoff.)

It basically never feels like a Godzilla movie. It feels like a Mothra film with Godzilla sidelined and taking a backseat to all the other characters.

I like Battra's look and feel bad for him.

There are points as others have mentioned, but considering how good I feel the previous three movies were...was there an excuse to write such a poorly paced story and downgrade Godzilla's role?



Yeah, the English dubs for the Heisei era do go downhill after Godzilla vs King Ghidorah, Godzilla vs Biollante & Godzilla 1985 having the best dubs of the Heisei era. Yes, Godzilla 1985 has its issues, but at least the voice actors sounded more professional than the international dub for the Return of Godzilla did, & definitely better than the dub for Godzilla vs Mothra. I'm glad that recent Toho Godzilla films like Shin Gojira have improved greatly in regards to the english dubbing department. Also, I do still agree that Godzilla vs Mothra feels more like a Mothra movie than a Godzilla film, they should have given Godzilla more screen time, & perhaps the humans should not have been so surprised when he survived yet another lava bath lol.

User avatar
GigaBowserG
Vice President
Vice President
Posts: 4739
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:25 am

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby GigaBowserG » Thu May 24, 2018 10:51 am

Shobijin wrote:There are points as others have mentioned, but considering how good I feel the previous three movies were...was there an excuse to write such a poorly paced story and downgrade Godzilla's role?


The movie got a new director in the form of Takao Okawara, while Kazuki Omori directed the last 2 films. The script was also just a modified version of Mothra vs. Bagan, with Battra taking Bagan's role. I think it was modified over the course of 2 weeks? It was done to save time so they wouldn't have to take months writing a totally new script. Mothra was obviously the lead in that scrapped draft, which is why she's more of the central character here as opposed to Godzilla, who was more or less just tacked on.
Mecha M wrote:[after seeing Shin Godzilla's design] Looks like partially cooked carne asada

/crawls back under rock

User avatar
kamilleblu
G-Grasper
Posts: 1358
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:46 pm

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby kamilleblu » Thu May 24, 2018 1:50 pm

Zarm wrote:For me, this movie is mediocre, and sits smack dab in the middle between the good and the awful (which for me- though not for many people, I know- are Return of Godzilla, vs. Destroyah, and Mechagodzilla II, all of which I would rank beneath this film). For others that like those three films, though, I can understand how this one would be on the bottom (or second to Spacegodzilla, which I recognize has issues despite my affection for it).

I've seen a lot of lists and lot of opinions. But I've never seen Return of Godzilla ranked below Godzilla vs Mothra: Battle for the Earth.

User avatar
Zarm
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4909
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:21 pm
Location: USA, East Coast
Contact:

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Zarm » Thu May 24, 2018 2:00 pm

I am baffled as to why that movie is ranked so highly. Whereas I found it dull, slow, and with the Godzilla 'rampage' portrayed ineptly for the tone, vs. Mothra had some fun action. And while its characters were kind of annoying, I felt like they exceeded the charisma of blocks of wood, which the RoG cast never did for me.

I do find it strange to be so at-odds with fandom over the more politics-heavy entries in the canon. But for me, they tend to offer very flat characters and very slow narratives that have little to appeal beyond the politics, which are insufficient to carry the whole film. Vs Mothra, for all its flaws (and they are numerous!) is simply more entertaining for me. It's not as deep, nor as historically significant, but it's just a more watchable movie.
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight. :ninja:


Winner of the last-ever(?) TK Fantasy Match tournament.

#ProLife

The Zone Fighter campaign is funded and complete, with translations in progress! PM me if you want to be part of the Facebook updates group.

Maranatha!

User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11144
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby eabaker » Thu May 24, 2018 2:16 pm

I love Return of Godzilla - it's one of my 5 favorites in the franchise, and one of my top 3 of the Heisei series - but I will certainly acknowledge that the characters are mostly pretty flat.

However, the atmosphere and the steady, deliberate pacing really appeal to me.

I'm also not nearly as harsh on vs. Mothra as many fans are these days, though. For me, it hovers right around the middle of the Heisei entries; I don't think it's anywhere near as good as its three predecessors, but I also don't find it as lousy as Mechagodzilla II or SpaceGodzilla. I guess I'd rank it a little above Destroyah, but they have such different strengths and weaknesses that it's hard to compare them 1:1.

As Zarm says, I find it very watchable. It's not a masterpiece, it's not one I'd show to a neophyte to introduce them to the genre, but once every couple of years it's one that I enjoy putting on when I have about 100 minutes to kill.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
Jeff-Goldblum1
Interpol Agent
Posts: 602
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:44 am

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Jeff-Goldblum1 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:29 pm

Watched this last night and a few thoughts occurred to me whilst doing so.

First time I saw this movie I thought it was one of the weaker Heisei movies. But on rewatches and this more recent one I am warming up to this movie quite a bit. Mostly because of the protagonist characters I think.

A few questions.

When Godzilla blows up one of the rotorless helicopters, the theme tune automatically stops. Are we to assume that this helicopter was playing the theme diegetically?

Mothra places a purity seal on the spot of water in the ocean that Godzilla was dropped in. Presumably to keep him in place. But there is no explanation in the following film regarding this.

User avatar
SoggyNoodles2016
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 7:37 am
Location: My parents' basement

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby SoggyNoodles2016 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:23 pm

Jeff-Goldblum1 wrote:Mothra places a purity seal on the spot of water in the ocean that Godzilla was dropped in. Presumably to keep him in place. But there is no explanation in the following film regarding this.


I mean, Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla 2 is all about technology and realistic(ish) stuff. It'd be kinda weird if during a high tech military briefing, someone went "Godzilla disappeared after the actual god that is one hundred percent confirmed to be real sealed him with her honest to god holy magical power." Hell, the fact nobody else mentioned it is weird. But that's the Heisei series for you.
We follow stirct continuity and realism untill it actually matters!

Added in 47 seconds:
Jeff-Goldblum1 wrote:When Godzilla blows up one of the rotorless helicopters, the theme tune automatically stops. Are we to assume that this helicopter was playing the theme diegetically?



Ifukube just really liked those guys.
Image

#MinillaForSmash2019

NSZ wrote:That's the 70's for ya. If you weren't blowing your money on gas, drugs, or chicks, you were blowing it on giant animatronic monkeys that don't work.

User avatar
Zarm
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4909
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:21 pm
Location: USA, East Coast
Contact:

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Zarm » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:44 am

Godzilla eventually revived, just swam down, out and under the seal. Somewhere in space, Mothra groused to herself "Dang it- this is why I usually bury them in dirt!"
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight. :ninja:


Winner of the last-ever(?) TK Fantasy Match tournament.

#ProLife

The Zone Fighter campaign is funded and complete, with translations in progress! PM me if you want to be part of the Facebook updates group.

Maranatha!

User avatar
GigaBowserG
Vice President
Vice President
Posts: 4739
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:25 am

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby GigaBowserG » Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:57 am

Jeff-Goldblum1 wrote:Mothra places a purity seal on the spot of water in the ocean that Godzilla was dropped in. Presumably to keep him in place. But there is no explanation in the following film regarding this.


It's a scene recycled from the Mothra vs. Bagan draft. In that, the seal is meant to keep Bagan from reawakening, unless mankind screws up again and wakes him. But for this movie... I guess it was just included because it sounded cool in the original script? If it was supposed to lock Godzilla away, it did a very poor job of it.
Mecha M wrote:[after seeing Shin Godzilla's design] Looks like partially cooked carne asada

/crawls back under rock

User avatar
Andrew the Gojifan
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:21 am
Location: Earth

Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Andrew the Gojifan » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:46 am

GigaBowserG wrote:
Jeff-Goldblum1 wrote:Mothra places a purity seal on the spot of water in the ocean that Godzilla was dropped in. Presumably to keep him in place. But there is no explanation in the following film regarding this.


It's a scene recycled from the Mothra vs. Bagan draft. In that, the seal is meant to keep Bagan from reawakening, unless mankind screws up again and wakes him. But for this movie... I guess it was just included because it sounded cool in the original script? If it was supposed to lock Godzilla away, it did a very poor job of it.

Maybe it was to make Godzilla`s soul... pure?
I mean, Godzilla becomes way more sympathetic after he escapes, but that`s probably just a result of circumstances, or is it?
Life is a Pay to Win rage game


Return to “Heisei Series (1980's-1998)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests