Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
- Fishheads88
- Yojimbo
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
Godzilla freakin flys! What's not to like.
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- Interpol Agent
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
There was a time in my mid-teens when I wished the flying scene and Godzilla dancing in Monster Zero had been edited out, but now I embrace them. Hedorah's tone is already so schizophrenic that snipping that scene wouldn't change a whole lot. And as eabaker pointed out, Hedorah's charm is in its contradictions. It's simultaneously one of the darkest and one of the goofiest Godzilla films, and to try to push the movie further in one direction or the other would only serve to make it less interesting.
Also, my teenage desire to get people to take GvH and MZ "more seriously" was laughable in itself. So much angst!
Also, my teenage desire to get people to take GvH and MZ "more seriously" was laughable in itself. So much angst!
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- EDF Instructor
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
Anyone follow the Kaijusaurus podcast? It's got a tiny following. Basically an older Godzilla fan shows a newer one every single Godzilla movie. Currently up to Godzilla vs Hedorah.
It's always very cool hearing a brand new fan take in these films. They did Godzilla vs Hedorah a few weeks ago and I'm listening to it now.
https://soundcloud.com/kaijusaurus/godzilla-vs-hedorah
I'm surprised they both really like it...just I do.
It's always very cool hearing a brand new fan take in these films. They did Godzilla vs Hedorah a few weeks ago and I'm listening to it now.
https://soundcloud.com/kaijusaurus/godzilla-vs-hedorah
I'm surprised they both really like it...just I do.
- Goji
- Xilien Halfling
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
Well, you didn't, but it's this idea that these "Godzilla historians" can never, ever possibly be wrong about anything. The way this fandom looks up to them with puppy dog eyes, and takes all of their words as gospel, can be pretty nauseating.Hybrid Gojira wrote:And when did I claim he was?Space Hunter M wrote:And Steve ain't a god, BTW.
UltramanGoji wrote: Cranky because you got mad I implied GFW isn't a good movie aren't you
Chrispy_G wrote:I'll say it one last time, Trump wins in a landslide.
I'll gladly eat crow if it doesn't turn out that way....but at this point it feels painfully obvious, as it has for months.
- g2vd
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- Godzillian
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
They're an OK podcast. Gets annoying when they bring up social justice warrior type issues with the film's and they don't do their researchdaveblackeye15 wrote:Anyone follow the Kaijusaurus podcast? It's got a tiny following. Basically an older Godzilla fan shows a newer one every single Godzilla movie. Currently up to Godzilla vs Hedorah.
It's always very cool hearing a brand new fan take in these films. They did Godzilla vs Hedorah a few weeks ago and I'm listening to it now.
https://soundcloud.com/kaijusaurus/godzilla-vs-hedorah
I'm surprised they both really like it...just I do.
- Hybrid Gojira
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
No one is taking anyone's word here as Gospel. Banno doesn't even deny the claim that Tanaka says he "ruined the Godzilla series" in the linked video; he says that Tanaka probably didn't like his movie. That doesn't refute anything I posted, does it? If you have another source, I'm all ears.Goji wrote:Well, you didn't, but it's this idea that these "Godzilla historians" can never, ever possibly be wrong about anything. The way this fandom looks up to them with puppy dog eyes, and takes all of their words as gospel, can be pretty nauseating.Hybrid Gojira wrote:And when did I claim he was?Space Hunter M wrote:And Steve ain't a god, BTW.
Kaiju Transmissions Podcast Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kaijutransmissionspodcast
- Godzillian
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
It does refute it. Bano said it surprised him that it was written in a book and that all Tanaka said was that he didn't like the changes Bano made to Godzillas character. He even got the OK to do the flying scene from Tanakas agent who in all likelihood ran it past Tanaka first. If Tanaka really hated Bano as much as this rumor says and was so deadest against Bano working on film why was Bano writing possible projects for the next Godzilla film? Why would he even be allowed to come up with any ideas for any Toho films?Banno doesn't even deny the claim that Tanaka says he "ruined the Godzilla series" in the linked video; he says that Tanaka probably didn't like his movie. That doesn't refute anything I posted, does it?
- Goji
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
^ Exaactly.
The point is, the "YOU RUINED GODZILLA!!!" nonsense is a fan myth, just like the duel-ending myth to KKvG. It is 100% fabricated by fans, and a result of false information being passed down over the decades. In other words; it's horse shit.
The point is, the "YOU RUINED GODZILLA!!!" nonsense is a fan myth, just like the duel-ending myth to KKvG. It is 100% fabricated by fans, and a result of false information being passed down over the decades. In other words; it's horse shit.
UltramanGoji wrote: Cranky because you got mad I implied GFW isn't a good movie aren't you
Chrispy_G wrote:I'll say it one last time, Trump wins in a landslide.
I'll gladly eat crow if it doesn't turn out that way....but at this point it feels painfully obvious, as it has for months.
- eabaker
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
^But, hey, let's go for a walk in fantasy land and say that it was absolutely true.
So fucking what?
Critical analysis of the artistic merits of a work cannot be based on the opinions of people behind the scenes; if the movie works for the viewer, then it works, regardless of whether or not it is consistent with the tastes of one of the co-creators of the character.
So fucking what?
Critical analysis of the artistic merits of a work cannot be based on the opinions of people behind the scenes; if the movie works for the viewer, then it works, regardless of whether or not it is consistent with the tastes of one of the co-creators of the character.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.
- Hybrid Gojira
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
I stand corrected.
*eats crow and walks away*
*eats crow and walks away*
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- g2vd
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
So great was the shame, and the ill luck thought to adhere to the Kaiju Hedorah, that Hedorah never again appeared in the Godzilla Series. Godzilla Vs. Hedorah and it's failures were keenly felt by Tomoyuki Tanaka, darkening his remaining years. According to the biographer Suetonius, upon hearing the news, Tanaka tore his clothes, refused to cut his hair for months and, for years afterwards, was heard, upon occasion, to moan, "Yoshimitsu Banno, give me back my Godzilla movies!" Banno was the losing Director and frankly the victim of having no talent.
Gibbon describes Tanaka's reaction to the movie and it's failure as one of the few times the normally stoic producer lost his composure. Banno's directorial legacy in Toho was destroyed, and Toho rightfully blamed him for the failure. His son's chances for a directorial career were ruined. Honda himself fell under severe criticism for recommending Banno as the Director. Honda, according to Gaius Stern, was forced to sacrifice his friend and former brother-in-law to save his career. Furthermore, Banno himself had been one of the figures on the Ara Pacis, but the figure is lost today.
Stern has proposed that common citizens vandalized the Ara Pacis by damaging Banno in anger over their lost loved ones who died because of the movie's badness.
Gibbon describes Tanaka's reaction to the movie and it's failure as one of the few times the normally stoic producer lost his composure. Banno's directorial legacy in Toho was destroyed, and Toho rightfully blamed him for the failure. His son's chances for a directorial career were ruined. Honda himself fell under severe criticism for recommending Banno as the Director. Honda, according to Gaius Stern, was forced to sacrifice his friend and former brother-in-law to save his career. Furthermore, Banno himself had been one of the figures on the Ara Pacis, but the figure is lost today.
Stern has proposed that common citizens vandalized the Ara Pacis by damaging Banno in anger over their lost loved ones who died because of the movie's badness.
Last edited by g2vd on Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Godzilla
- Goji
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
Oh? Your Tank is evolving!
Your Tank evolved into Tanka!
(Only 18 more levels, and you'll have yourself a Tanaka!)
Your Tank evolved into Tanka!
(Only 18 more levels, and you'll have yourself a Tanaka!)
UltramanGoji wrote: Cranky because you got mad I implied GFW isn't a good movie aren't you
Chrispy_G wrote:I'll say it one last time, Trump wins in a landslide.
I'll gladly eat crow if it doesn't turn out that way....but at this point it feels painfully obvious, as it has for months.
- g2vd
- Xilien Halfling
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
..Oh..Oh....Nuts. lol, I knew I left something out.Goji wrote:Oh? Your Tank is evolving!
Your Tank evolved into Tanka!
(Only 18 more levels, and you'll have yourself a Tanaka!)
Oh well who cares it's still funny.
Godzilla
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- Keizer
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
You could write an amusing book if you came up with more comic gems like that.
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made.
The strength of the vampire is that people will not believe in him.
The strength of the vampire is that people will not believe in him.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
I still to this day have a very hard time getting into Hedorah. I like Hedorah himself but the film just doesn't work for me. It's not bad but way to artsy fartsy for my taste and even a bit boring.
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Follow me on Twitter, if you dare! https://twitter.com/TLK_1983
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- Keizer
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
It is the most unique Godzilla film.
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made.
The strength of the vampire is that people will not believe in him.
The strength of the vampire is that people will not believe in him.
- Crazy Jim Films
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
That is ultimately the charm of it all. To credit it with ruining the series is really a bit much. It doesn't make a drastic enough alteration to anything to really shake the Showa era cannon up beyond repair. You can pretty much choose to ignore it and lose nothing if you see fit. There is nothing being done as major as say, turning Godzilla into a hero in "Ghidrah". Yes, there is a whole lot of wacky things going on but what real long-term damage is caused?edgaguirus wrote:It is the most unique Godzilla film.
Check out the PG version of my short film, "Destroy All Sisters".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNVCmLaqznA&t=1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNVCmLaqznA&t=1s
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- Interpol Agent
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
To take that further, I think crediting any one movie with ruining any one series is a bit much, even GINO or Final Wars. Usually when an individual series declined is was because of broader trends of Toho either losing money or running out of ideas.Crazy Jim Films wrote:That is ultimately the charm of it all. To credit it with ruining the series is really a bit much. It doesn't make a drastic enough alteration to anything to really shake the Showa era cannon up beyond repair. You can pretty much choose to ignore it and lose nothing if you see fit. There is nothing being done as major as say, turning Godzilla into a hero in "Ghidrah". Yes, there is a whole lot of wacky things going on but what real long-term damage is caused?edgaguirus wrote:It is the most unique Godzilla film.
- Crazy Jim Films
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)
I don't know. With certain films, you may have that "jump the shark" moment that really makes it difficult for a series to recover from. I don't see much of that with "Hedorah". Even the flying moment, love it or hate it, is pretty self-contained within the film it's featured in. It doesn't much affect anything that comes after it or before it.godzillalives88 wrote: To take that further, I think crediting any one movie with ruining any one series is a bit much, even GINO or Final Wars. Usually when an individual series declined is was because of broader trends of Toho either losing money or running out of ideas.
If anything, the series took its most drastic shift when they introduced ideas like the monsters talking to each other, Godzilla becoming heroic, and the countless alien races showing up to take over the planet. But even at a young age in viewing Godzilla 1985, where it basically reboots and ignores the 60's and 70's entries, there's always this sense of this comic book-like aspect where different alternate storylines can exist. I think any damage is minimal. Something like the Tri-Star 90's version is a different issue. I think the studio had no clue how to make a successful Americanized version of Godzilla and ended up losing out in the long run. It didn't "ruin" the series, per se, but it kept the property from doing much in the States for quite some time.
Check out the PG version of my short film, "Destroy All Sisters".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNVCmLaqznA&t=1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNVCmLaqznA&t=1s