CGI or rubber suits?

For the discussion of the Legendary Pictures Godzilla franchise.

Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Giga Kaiju » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:47 pm

It doesnt matter which effect is going to be used i am still going to watch this movie to be entertained not to complain.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Tyler » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:46 am

Godzilla 2000 wrote:He's not being a dick, he's being realistic.


One can be a realistic dick, though.

And if they did use suits it's not like it would look exactly like a Toho film. It would look better and who wouldn't want to see that? Even if they do it all CG I personally think something like Gamera 3 done on a huge Hollywood budget scale can happen and would be incredible if someone had enough balls to do it.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby CatfaceFourtoes » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:34 am

therealmccoy wrote:Instead of providing numerous examples of bad CG, post numerous examples of well-utilized CG and feel good about it. I get tired of this "CG could ruin Godzilla" attitude. It's really silly. Again I say, if you have the belief that a film is carried solely on special effects, you are in for a lot of disappointments. I could care less what route they take; as long as it's GOOD, it won't really matter to me. Bad special-effects aren't an evil deal-breaker to me.


Sure, after all I already provided the trailer of Minotaur, a straight-to-dvd low budget film that managed to do so well with its CGI that it blends seamlessly with the practical effects. That should have shown my cautious optimism for CGI well enough, but if you insist.

LOTR. Oooh, I feel better already with the effects of the CGI flame.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8gdxPX6_8M
too bad the cave troll was not rendered as well, though.

The heavyweight champ and the one to beat IMHO
Avatar
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5esKccNnpZM
Ironically enough, the only things that looked even a bit off in this film were the lifeless powersuits. Everything that was alive looked, alive.

Hulk 03. The consistency of quality is dodgy, but the sheer realism in the interaction between objects, what hulk drags and pics up, was beyond my expectations of what CGI was capable of in terms of realism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wrNMPRriwc

And as for the character assassination, the crack about being crazy, I'll just chock that up to frustration that I pointed out a glaring inconsistency in the quality of the technology in the medium, and how it is has not been helped by either budget or time. If a suit or makeup looks lifeless or stiff, its called out. If stopmotion models look nothing like their live action full-size contemporaries, that gets called out too. CGI should not get a free pass either when it messes up. It is after all the effects medium that revolutionized the way we view cinema after all. It should be held to at least some kind of standard.

Oh, and about miniaturizing water effects, CGI seems to do that exceedingly well, among other things. From what I read, everything about that sequence was CGI save for the up close shots of the men on the ship, and Jack Black, with the exception of the belly blitz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXxt3eFhQBQ
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Captain Aktion » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:38 pm

^Yeah, but look at the flooding of Isengard. That was a combination of CG, miniatures, and maquette work that took my breath away. If you can add that kind of CG detail while keeping the tactile grounding of actual props then you've got the future of FX, IMO.

I see no reason that you can't use miniatures and actual suits, not just puffy, fill it in later mo-cap suits, but full Kaiju costuming rigged up to utilize CG elements, to create a real FX extravaganza.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Ethan » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:50 pm

Legion1979 wrote:It doesn't matter. If you honestly think LP's Godzilla isn't going to be CGI (maybe augmented by physical props, but primarily CGI) you're crazy.

Me hopes it won't be shot 100% in front a blue screen like Avatar or Star Wars.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Captain Aktion » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:06 pm

^Sadly, that's probably, realistically, the best we could hope for.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Hellspawn28 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:39 pm

As much I would love to see some suit work to used, it's likely never going to happen. Hellboy 1-2 and Where the Wild Things Are where not giant monster movies. Their is nothing wrong with a CG Godzilla since CG was not the reason why G98 sucked.

kaiju_wars wrote:
Are you talking about the movie Predators, if so, that came out either earlier this year or last year.


It came out last July (July 2010).

Tyler wrote:I thought the Preds in Predators were big rubbery dumbasses. I don't think they looked half as good as the ones in the AVP flicks.


AVPR I could understand but not the first one. Sorry but the Predators in the first movie look awful, one of the main reasons why I hated those movies.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby CatfaceFourtoes » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:35 am

Well, at least in AVP, they did not have a Predator stupidly doff all of its weapons to demonstrate how inferior it was physically to a Xenomorph, even a mutated one like the Predalien. The weaponry belongs on a predator. the weapons are practically a part of it, almost making a Predator like a cyborg, similar to how Tony Stark is connected to his suit.

From its vision enhancing mask to its personal cloaking device, to weapons like the smart disk, its gear is made to work with the Predator's natural attributes. Without them, Predators are just powerful , tail-less aliens with useless glowing blood and an equally useless but interesting set of jaws pitted against a creature that can kill by being wounded and has sharp weapons built into every corner of its seemingly bio-mechanical body.

AVP2 was crap save for the special effects, and I'd much rather follow Predator:Concrete Jungle's storyline when establishing how Weyland/Utani and Mother came into being. "Miss Utani" indeed, lulz.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Tyler » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:46 pm

The armor made them a bit bulky but that's about it. The ones in Predators were like giant walking bobble heads.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby CatfaceFourtoes » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:37 pm

I think part of it has to do with the fact that the first two Predators were portrayed by a big guy, Kevin Peter Hall. I think he was taller than Arnold, it was not just a visual trick. In AVP, I think only one of the actors came even close in height, and that was the guy who played the Predator that did not die until the end.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby DaddlerTheDalek » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:31 pm

Cgi & Motion-Capturing. Maybe some Stan Winston stuff.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Primevalgodzilla V2 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:44 am

As long as it looks good I don't care.

Although preferably the same balance that Lord of the Rings uses.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby CatfaceFourtoes » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:04 am

That sounds good. Weta proved that they could even computer generate and miniaturize water in Gulliver's Travels. Their animation of living things is also impressive, from the Wargs in the LOTR series to the V-Rex in King Kong '05 that looked like they could have eaten Anne Darrow at any moment. I especially liked the animation quality that allowed her to hang suspended from one's lower jaw realistically.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby GodGan » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:41 pm

USA think theyre the best at cgi but wait til japan does it... no racist.
Well the movie should be both. It would be epic. 8-)
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby ManWithNoName » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:09 am

CGI, suits would make this movie skreeonking dumb to non Godzilla fans, and Toho may as well just pump out another Godzilla cut-all-costs-crap-fest if an American studio does the same with way more money.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby kaiju115 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:56 am

I'm ok with seeing a CGI Godzilla so long as its done the right way. Though if Toho decides to bring him back to Japan, definitely rubber suits, as a tradition.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby King Kong » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:02 am

Gotta go with the consensus of being ok with CGI. Can't see the rubber suits going over too well in this day and age with current general audiences. Unless of course the aim is to present a film that's tounge-in-cheek. Which I sincerely hope is not the case.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Patrick Alan » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:44 pm

I'd rather have it being a Rubber Suit, but I already know it'll be CGI
The world would be so much nicer if people only used guns on themselves.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Living Corpse » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:54 pm

I'd rather they combine BOTH but they said it's gonna be CGI so what can you do?
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby CatfaceFourtoes » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:31 am

Hope for the best that the CGI is top notch, which is likely a given since the character in question is so iconic. GINO was a screw up but I think most here can agree that the CGI used in the film holds up well when compared to later films like Cloverfield and the Clash of The Titans remake.

Given that GINO was such a disappointment everywhere else, there is probably a drive to make this new Godzilla's CGI outshine the techniques used in that film.
The same goes for what Godzilla will look like. It will probably be constructed more like a living thing, with its own unique motion based abstractly off of existing animals, so It probably won't look exactly like what we all have seen before with the suits.
I hope they pattern it off of a bear. Bears have a nice half-way point in the dexterity of their limbs, not quite as much as a human, but more than the average large predator. Also, in a documentary Harou Nakajima said that he based his movements off of bears, so it would be a nice tribute. Pick Andy Serkis for the motion reference acting and I would be totally psyched about a CGI Godzilla.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Crocodile » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:07 pm

GodGan wrote:USA think theyre the best at cgi but wait til japan does it... no racist.
Well the movie should be both. It would be epic. 8-)


Japanese CGI typically isn't as good as Hollywood CGI

The difference, MONEY!
Hollywood puts a lot more money into special effects, where as Japan (Due to a smaller domestic market) is more conservative with where it's budget goes.

As for this movie
I'm hoping CGI, I want to see new stuff done here with a larger fat American budget. I want a sense of scale you just can't get with Suitmation.
I love suitmation, and I always will, but this movie is a chance to do some stuff Toho just doesn't do.
Let's not squander that trying to be exactly the same as before.
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