CGI or rubber suits?

For the discussion of the Legendary Pictures Godzilla franchise.

Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Living Corpse » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:55 pm

I don't care as long as they know what makes Godzilla, well Godzilla. Seriously the film could be bad and I would still find it redeeming if they nail the character down because at least even bad Godzilla can be called a Godzilla film unlike GINO.

As for suits or CGI, why does it have to be one? There are good films that used both suits and CGI and I think they would get the best result if they use both because sometimes it looks better when something is actually there. But if they choose to just go with CGI I won't hold it against them as long as Godzilla acts like Godzilla.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Zilla103192 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:45 am

motion capture















that is all...
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby goji1986 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:44 am

zilla103192 wrote:motion capture


that is all...


That would be a great way of doing Godzilla in CGI. Say what you will about Peter Jackson's King Kong, but one thing that was done pretty damn well was Andy Serkis as Kong. Using an actor would give Godzilla a personality much in the same way that Nakajima, Satsuma, and Kitagawa did while in those suits. District 9 showed that you don't even need to do motion capture in a closed off green room. Why not build an expansive miniature set (that can be CGI enhanced) and have an actor in a mocap suit smash it? It just seems like the next logical step.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby HeiseiGodzilla117 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:21 pm

goji1986 wrote:Using an actor would give Godzilla a personality


HOW? Who's to say he can't be purely computer generated and have personality? I didn't get any 'personality' from the actors inside the Godzilla suits. From Godzilla, yes, only because that's what the director(s) happened to be going for. He could have just as easily lacked personality like in the original and Godzilla (1984).
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby TokyoVigilante » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:01 pm

Despite what fans like to think, Serkis was only used as a stand-in on set for the actors to work off of, and motion-captured some facial expressions. The amount of data a fully motion captured Serkis made during action sequences became incredibly difficult to manage and almost impossible to animate. Sure he had input into characterization, but Kong (the character) would've been just as good Serkis or not.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby goji1986 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:08 pm

HeiseiGodzilla117 wrote:
goji1986 wrote:Using an actor would give Godzilla a personality


HOW? Who's to say he can't be purely computer generated and have personality? I didn't get any 'personality' from the actors inside the Godzilla suits. From Godzilla, yes, only because that's what the director(s) happened to be going for. He could have just as easily lacked personality like in the original and Godzilla (1984).


Perhaps personality was the wrong word to use. I'm not saying he wouldn't have a personality as a fully CGI character, it's just if you wanted to retain the spirit of "it's a guy playing the monster", mocap is a logical direction to go. Mix the old with the new is all I'm suggesting.

And Godzilla's lack of a personality in '54 and '84 was due to suit issues, i.e. too stiff or not specifically built for the suit actor. I'm also not exactly sure what you mean by "I didn't get any 'personality' from the actors inside the Godzilla suits". Have you never seen the documentary Bringing Godzilla Down to Size?

TokyoVigilante wrote:Despite what fans like to think, Serkis was only used as a stand-in on set for the actors to work off of, and motion-captured some facial expressions. The amount of data a fully motion captured Serkis made during action sequences became incredibly difficult to manage and almost impossible to animate. Sure he had input into characterization, but Kong (the character) would've been just as good Serkis or not.


My bad on that one. You're quite right, although I do remember either reading or seeing something about Serkis having to wear something to extend his arms for mocap. Can't remember exactly what they said, it was over 5 years ago (already!).

Still, doing mocap for Godzilla may be considerably less difficult with today's technology (again, see District 9), and also due to the fact that his arms and legs are better proportioned to human limbs unlike Kong.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby TokyoVigilante » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:20 pm

For sure, I do think it's a perfectly reasonable way to get some more subtle, really organic facial expressions or to figure out a unique method of locomotion (I know the Heisei suit-actor tried to express Godzilla's emotions through hand gestures and movements with his fingers, for example). But the attitude of "Guys, mo-cap = problem solved!" is just oversimplifying something that is relatively complex.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby goji1986 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:18 pm

TokyoVigilante wrote:For sure, I do think it's a perfectly reasonable way to get some more subtle, really organic facial expressions or to figure out a unique method of locomotion (I know the Heisei suit-actor tried to express Godzilla's emotions through hand gestures and movements with his fingers, for example). But the attitude of "Guys, mo-cap = problem solved!" is just oversimplifying something that is relatively complex.


I'm not saying that mocap is the simple, or only, solution. It's probably even more complex than traditional suitmation. All I'm saying is that it's a good way of maintaining the the old-fashioned spirit behind creating the character while moving forward with the times and technology. Personally I'm all for the old-fashioned way, but outside of the fandom there are few who would agree.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby HeiseiGodzilla117 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:12 am

goji1986 wrote:I'm also not exactly sure what you mean by "I didn't get any 'personality' from the actors inside the Godzilla suits". Have you never seen the documentary Bringing Godzilla Down to Size?


Allow me to reiterate. The actors didn't provide any of this "personality" for Godzilla, that's all writing and directing. Writers and Directors decide what kind of personality they want Godzilla to have, and let the actor... well, act it out. Yes, I have seen that documentary. Also, I apologize if my reply sounded hostile, I just reread it and it seemed that way to me.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby GMK Godzilla » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:55 am

What whould be cheaper: suits or cgi godzilla?
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Gojira-Fan » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:53 pm

I'm almost certain suits would be cheaper.
They won't be used in this movie, however.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby phaz0ngoji » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:12 pm

CGI + Motion capture = Perfect way of utilizing modern special effects technology and still paying homage to the suit.

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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Rockzilla » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:31 am

"This CGI bullshit is the death knell of cinema. If I'd wanted all that computer game bullshit, I'd have stuck my dick in a Nintendo."
- Quentin Tarantino

I felt like bumping this since the Thing prequel trailer got me thinking about how much I really hate CGI.

I would really like to see what costumes and practical effects would look like on a big American Budget.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby DeadpoolsbetterThanU » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:47 am

I don't have anything against CGI, but it's getting out of hand. CGI for most movies is an excuse to make it 3D to charge audiences more. CGI's great in somethings, but movies should put in the extra effort and make a suit/motion capture/stop motion style for certain things.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Tapkaara » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:51 am

Rockzilla wrote:"This CGI bullshit is the death knell of cinema. If I'd wanted all that computer game bullshit, I'd have stuck my dick in a Nintendo."
- Quentin Tarantino

I felt like bumping this since the Thing prequel trailer got me thinking about how much I really hate CGI.

I would really like to see what costumes and practical effects would look like on a big American Budget.


Tarantino is right. CGI as sucks. As the main special effect, anyway.

God zilla should ALWAYS be a man in a suit. A good suit. With CGI to animate his breath, the lighting up of his dorsal spines, etc. I don't want Godzilla to look like a cookie cutter special effect from every movie made today. The magic and personily of Godzilla is in the suit. Literally.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Chris55 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:05 pm

Get the Godzilla suit actors to do the motion capture. There ya go
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby ZillaEra » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:14 pm

Regardless of whether it sucks or not, even Toho from here on out will be using suits at a minimum, as evident in Godzilla's CGI cameo in Always 2. And while Legendary may possibly use models, replicas, and "suits" (for lack of a better word) for certain scenes, this will be minimal, with CGI the dominant form of special effects in the movie by far.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby SuperSaiyan4Godzilla » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:27 pm

Tapkaara wrote:
Rockzilla wrote:"This CGI bullshit is the death knell of cinema. If I'd wanted all that computer game bullshit, I'd have stuck my dick in a Nintendo."
- Quentin Tarantino

I felt like bumping this since the Thing prequel trailer got me thinking about how much I really hate CGI.

I would really like to see what costumes and practical effects would look like on a big American Budget.


Tarantino is right. CGI as sucks. As the main special effect, anyway.

God zilla should ALWAYS be a man in a suit. A good suit. With CGI to animate his breath, the lighting up of his dorsal spines, etc. I don't want Godzilla to look like a cookie cutter special effect from every movie made today. The magic and personily of Godzilla is in the suit. Literally.


Godzilla suits are magic artifacts? Holy shit, I need to get my hands on that! World domination, just a step closer!
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby Ethan » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:35 pm

SuperSaiyan4Godzilla wrote:
Tapkaara wrote:
Rockzilla wrote:"This CGI bullshit is the death knell of cinema. If I'd wanted all that computer game bullshit, I'd have stuck my dick in a Nintendo."
- Quentin Tarantino

I felt like bumping this since the Thing prequel trailer got me thinking about how much I really hate CGI.

I would really like to see what costumes and practical effects would look like on a big American Budget.


Tarantino is right. CGI as sucks. As the main special effect, anyway.

God zilla should ALWAYS be a man in a suit. A good suit. With CGI to animate his breath, the lighting up of his dorsal spines, etc. I don't want Godzilla to look like a cookie cutter special effect from every movie made today. The magic and personily of Godzilla is in the suit. Literally.


Godzilla suits are magic artifacts? Holy shit, I need to get my hands on that! World domination, just a step closer!

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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby shinmattiathekaiju » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:38 pm

Ethan wrote:Godzilla suits are magic artifacts? Holy shit, I need to get my hands on that! World domination, just a step closer!

So you are a terrorist.[/quote]
No,he is an average american.
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Re: CGI or rubber suits?

Postby SuperSaiyan4Godzilla » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:45 pm

Ethan wrote:So you are a terrorist.


Terrorists are boring. Idiots, also.

I'm a world conqueror. There's a difference. Mostly, after the world, the solar system. After the solar system, the the galaxy....Eventally, I'll have the entire universe...


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