Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

[obZen]

https://www.godzilla-movies.com/news/ja ... Rc.twitter

Nice interview with the guy who designed GVK Mechagodzilla.
I KNEW he had saws on his claws!! I pointed it out ages ago when that shirt leaked, and none of you paid any notice!

I had noticed the saws on the inside of MechaGodzilla’s claws as well — namely because you had pointed them out several weeks ago.

I got you, bro.

[daveblackeye15]

Lmaooo, this movie does prove Kong and Godzilla are equals in terms of Alpha Status. But not strength. At no point did Kong actually stop fighting and bow like the other kaiju.

Tired of people trying to make it seem like Kong was a female dog in the film. You guys never had to fight someone who clearly could kick your ass but you chose not to back down?

This is that situation. Godzilla does his alpha frequency directly onto Kong while standing on his chest after beating his ass and what does Kong do? Not submit that's for sure.

Kong is hard headed that is all. Refusing to bow is highly impressive but I don't think bowing makes Rodan any less of an Alpha for example. I still get goosebumps at that last roar off between the two.

Also anyone seen this?

https://twitter.com/TheTohoSociety/stat ... 62273?s=20

Damn that use of 2014 and classic Godzilla theme is sexy AF!

[Shadowfyre]

Can any math whizzes here give an estimate of about how fast Kong and Mecha G are able to move at? I got some more thrashing to do.

If Godzillas tail whip is at mach 1, I'm guessing that Kong and Mecha G consistently move at upwards of 300 mph or better.

[Dv-218]

https://www.godzilla-movies.com/news/ja ... Rc.twitter

Nice interview with the guy who designed GVK Mechagodzilla.
I KNEW he had saws on his claws!! I pointed it out ages ago when that shirt leaked, and none of you paid any notice!

Gotta say it's awesome how Jared got the chance to officially design Mechagodzilla twice in a row. Dude living the dream lol.
The classes are such an insanely cool detail. Every single part about the design screams "murder machine" and I fucking love that.

[daveblackeye15]

Yeah I really like both his MG designs.
Oh he wants to design Biollante and Hedorah!

[Jermobooka]

https://www.godzilla-movies.com/news/ja ... Rc.twitter

Nice interview with the guy who designed GVK Mechagodzilla.
I KNEW he had saws on his claws!! I pointed it out ages ago when that shirt leaked, and none of you paid any notice!

Gotta say it's awesome how Jared got the chance to officially design Mechagodzilla twice in a row. Dude living the dream lol.
The classes are such an insanely cool detail. Every single part about the design screams "murder machine" and I fucking love that.

Same. MG21 is starting to become my favorite Mechagodzilla in every single aspect. Legendary gas knocked the creature design out of the goddamn park

[Dv-218]

Interesting that he confirms the intention really was to make MG look scrappy and unfinished- honestly a pretty unique take, makes sense with the overall technological capabilities and time frame. Would be neat to see a more "refined" model if he is ever to be reintroduced.

[MegaEvilSaurus666]

I mentioned absolutely nothing about realism in anything that I said. You're getting kinda ridiculous with this stuff.

Well that’s where you’re wrong, my dear friend. Realism fuels you. It drives you. It has overtaken your every cell, the entirety of your being, and has become you. You are realism.

why else would you obsess over the physics of giant monsters lol

Not to sound rude, but you glossing over anything MES666 says yet making a point of calling it out the "realism", even when it's not there, is getting pretty annoying tbh...

Thank you very much. I appreciate that, TGM.

And no, Jermobooka. I don't obsess over the physics of giant monsters. That wouldn't really make sense for me to do, because I wouldn't enjoy the genre. I've often talked about the plots, designs, animations, rendering, etc.

And speaking of animation...

---on an unrelated topic--

Someone just put the issue of kaiju moving speed into perspective for me. And I'm honestly okay with whatever way they move now.

Now consider when Godzilla's lumbering and moving slowly as it from our perspective. But whenever he's moving faster its from another kaiju's perspective. He looks slow to us because we're tiny. Every step is massive to us but only a regular step to him. Think about it how ants probably see us.

Interesting perspective on the matter! Definitely a neat POV, didn't even think of how the perception might differ depending on the character in focus. Frankly I have zero issues with how either kaiju moved in the film, imo the more dynamic the movements are the more exciting and interesting the fights are- but this is still a cool way of looking at it beyond just the director's choice.

And for real, if there is one aspect that the movie knocked out of the park is the CGI. With each rewatch I can't help but marvel at the sheer amount of detail that went into it. That brief shot of Godzilla changing direction upon sensing MG is particularly impressive.

I'm still torn on the effects in this movie. The details are fantastic for the most part (most of Kong's scenes are beautiful, but Godzilla's are a bit of a mixed bag), and from a technical standpoint, it's definitely more developed than the effects of Godzilla 2014 and Kong: Skull Island (modern effects), but the execution and use of these things just doesn't look as convincing as either one of those. You can look at it and merely see it as two CGI monsters fighting, more than usual. I'm not sure anyone will agree with me, but GKOTM had the same issue. The motion overall, and not just regarding speed, is more... cartoony. I have almost no problems with the choreography, but the execution of it all is not all there. There's things like Godzilla snapping his jaws underwater, or the way Kong pushes him away after that. Kong jumping across ships. Godzilla flailing his arms underwater as he pulls Kong into the depths of the ocean. Kong not destroying the building on impact after Godzilla throws him. All of that combined with the cinematography (magic flying camera shots) makes it less convincing. I've pointed all of this out before I believe, but I'm just not seeing how this is visually better than the first two of its predecessors.

And even if that was the reason for the way the monsters are animated (it isn't at all, look at the Pensacola scene), I don't feel like that's really the point of giant monster movies, honestly. Part of the appeal is just how massive they are compared to humans, and to the norm. They should move like monstrous, enormous beasts. It should make you feel tiny. You should be able to imagine them in your nearest city, smashing the place, at least kind of. I simply didn't get that sense here, and it sort of bothered me, as much as I hate to say it. Some of the Mechagodzilla battle has that feel, so that sense of scale is still there in places. It's there in the Hong Kong fight in Pacific Rim, the entirety of G2014, and K:SI (to a slightly lesser extent), so those just appeal to me more. That's just me.

https://www.godzilla-movies.com/news/ja ... Rc.twitter

Nice interview with the guy who designed GVK Mechagodzilla.
I KNEW he had saws on his claws!! I pointed it out ages ago when that shirt leaked, and none of you paid any notice!

No no, I saw it too. You weren't alone in that observation, although I don't think I was online for the shirt leak. You have good eyes, though. I doubt most really noticed back then.

The pistons (I think) and various parts inside the mouth also correspond with the structure of Godzilla's jaws and inner mouth, which is a nice touch. Strange that it's actually sort of copying the mouth of an iguana there, though.

This interview has given me some more respect for the design, although I'm still not a big fan of the proportions. A halfway point between the two designs he made would have been great.

[Dv-218]

Well that’s where you’re wrong, my dear friend. Realism fuels you. It drives you. It has overtaken your every cell, the entirety of your being, and has become you. You are realism.

why else would you obsess over the physics of giant monsters lol

Not to sound rude, but you glossing over anything MES666 says yet making a point of calling it out the "realism", even when it's not there, is getting pretty annoying tbh...

Thank you very much. I appreciate that, TGM.

And no, Jermobooka. I don't obsess over the physics of giant monsters. That wouldn't really make sense for me to do, because I wouldn't enjoy the genre. I've often talked about the plots, designs, animations, rendering, etc.

And speaking of animation...

---on an unrelated topic--

Someone just put the issue of kaiju moving speed into perspective for me. And I'm honestly okay with whatever way they move now.

Now consider when Godzilla's lumbering and moving slowly as it from our perspective. But whenever he's moving faster its from another kaiju's perspective. He looks slow to us because we're tiny. Every step is massive to us but only a regular step to him. Think about it how ants probably see us.

Interesting perspective on the matter! Definitely a neat POV, didn't even think of how the perception might differ depending on the character in focus. Frankly I have zero issues with how either kaiju moved in the film, imo the more dynamic the movements are the more exciting and interesting the fights are- but this is still a cool way of looking at it beyond just the director's choice.

And for real, if there is one aspect that the movie knocked out of the park is the CGI. With each rewatch I can't help but marvel at the sheer amount of detail that went into it. That brief shot of Godzilla changing direction upon sensing MG is particularly impressive.

I'm still torn on the effects in this movie. The details are fantastic for the most part (most of Kong's scenes are beautiful, but Godzilla's are a bit of a mixed bag), and from a technical standpoint, it's definitely more developed than the effects of Godzilla 2014 and Kong: Skull Island (modern effects), but the execution and use of these things just doesn't look as convincing as either one of those. You can look at it and merely see it as two CGI monsters fighting, more than usual. I'm not sure anyone will agree with me, but GKOTM had the same issue. The motion overall, and not just regarding speed, is more... cartoony. I have almost no problems with the choreography, but the execution of it all is not all there. There's things like Godzilla snapping his jaws underwater, or the way Kong pushes him away after that. Kong jumping across ships. Godzilla flailing his arms underwater as he pulls Kong into the depths of the ocean. Kong not destroying the building on impact after Godzilla throws him. All of that combined with the cinematography (magic flying camera shots) makes it less convincing. I've pointed all of this out before I believe, but I'm just not seeing how this is visually better than the first two of its predecessors.

And even if that was the reason for the way the monsters are animated (it isn't at all, look at the Pensacola scene), I don't feel like that's really the point of giant monster movies, honestly. Part of the appeal is just how massive they are compared to humans, and to the norm. They should move like monstrous, enormous beasts. It should make you feel tiny. You should be able to imagine them in your nearest city, smashing the place, at least kind of. I simply didn't get that sense here, and it sort of bothered me, as much as I hate to say it. Some of the Mechagodzilla battle has that feel, so that sense of scale is still there in places. It's there in the Hong Kong fight in Pacific Rim, the entirety of G2014, and K:SI (to a slightly lesser extent), so those just appeal to me more. That's just me.

https://www.godzilla-movies.com/news/ja ... Rc.twitter

Nice interview with the guy who designed GVK Mechagodzilla.
I KNEW he had saws on his claws!! I pointed it out ages ago when that shirt leaked, and none of you paid any notice!

No no, I saw it too. You weren't alone in that observation, although I don't think I was online for the shirt leak. You have good eyes, though. I doubt most really noticed back then.

The pistons (I think) and various parts inside the mouth also correspond with the structure of Godzilla's jaws and inner mouth, which is a nice touch. Strange that it's actually sort of copying the mouth of an iguana there, though.

This interview has given me some more respect for the design, although I'm still not a big fan of the proportions. A halfway point between the two designs he made would have been great.

Yeeeeah you see I don't really share the same sentiment as you on the matter. I do understand where you are coming from in regards to the sense of scale and mass but honestly I feel like there are instances and approaches where you can play around that to make for, imo, more entertaining and intense scenes. I honestly didn't think the CGI looked any less convincing than it was before- not too dissimilar to Kong skull island. It's just a different way to tackle the effects and the kaiju, and I have no qualms with it. It was befitting the type of film GvK was aiming to be. Godzilla going feral and ripping into Kong like a giant, angry Crocodile might not necessarily be feasible movement-wise with the size of his, but it's awesome, intense and genuinely makes you understand what a ferocious fighter he can be. Kong jumping on the carriers and buildings might seem ridiculous on paper but his agility IS the main attrbute and draw he has, so i'd want to see him utilize it. A low level and mass-oriented cinematography works in certain types of monsters films, but I feel like in a movie where the matchup IS the main event and focus you need to have both combatants go all out for the full effect. Just my opinion, feel free to disagree but I needed to take this off my chest. I just really don't care for how such stuff is handled as long as it is well executed and fits the plot, that is all.

[Jermobooka]

Kinda-sorta off topic, but i honestly can’t stand r/GODZILLA anymore. It’s all just Monsterverse, memes, Monsterverse, and stolen fanart. Don’t get me wrong, i fucking love the MV, but it’s literally all that’s talked about. There’s barely any discussions about anything else. Even SP, and that shits coming out in two months! It’s even worse on r/monsterverse. Way goddamn worse.

TK has spoiled me...

[gottatalktothefake]

Kinda-sorta off topic, but i honestly can’t stand r/GODZILLA anymore. It’s all just Monsterverse, memes, Monsterverse, and stolen fanart. Don’t get me wrong, i skreeonking love the MV, but it’s literally all that’s talked about. There’s barely any discussions about anything else. Even SP, and that shits coming out in two months! It’s even worse on r/monsterverse. Way goddamn worse.

TK has spoiled me...

People talk about something that just came out, what a shocker!

[Jermobooka]

Kinda-sorta off topic, but i honestly can’t stand r/GODZILLA anymore. It’s all just Monsterverse, memes, Monsterverse, and stolen fanart. Don’t get me wrong, i skreeonking love the MV, but it’s literally all that’s talked about. There’s barely any discussions about anything else. Even SP, and that shits coming out in two months! It’s even worse on r/monsterverse. Way goddamn worse.

TK has spoiled me...

People talk about something that just came out, what a shocker!

Of course, I’m just complaining that variety and originality is severely lacking, which makes TK more of a desirable place to discuss godzilla/kaiju/toku

[Spydrmanjr]

I think some of the scenes in Hong Kong could have been more refined. The final phase of the GvK fight could have been more refined if the movements were slowed similarly to how the live action fights are filmed. Some of the erratic movements cause you to miss some details.

[tbeasley]

Something tells me Dougherty is gonna be the Zack Snyder of the MonsterVerse in terms of tone, atmosphere, and vibe, you know if you catch my drift.

Nah, Gareth Edwards is more like the MonsterVerse's Zack Snyder. He made the 2014 Godzilla movie have a dark, horror-like tone and atmosphere. There was no humor, no jokes made for a cheap laugh, just seriousness from beginning to end with the use of dark coloring in almost every scene. That is something Snyder would have done.

None of the MV directors are like Snyder, get real.

Someone just put the issue of kaiju moving speed into perspective for me. And I'm honestly okay with whatever way they move now.

Now consider when Godzilla's lumbering and moving slowly as it from our perspective. But whenever he's moving faster its from another kaiju's perspective. He looks slow to us because we're tiny. Every step is massive to us but only a regular step to him. Think about it how ants probably see us.

^ Good points.

[Thegarbagemonster]

Kinda-sorta off topic, but i honestly can’t stand r/GODZILLA anymore. It’s all just Monsterverse, memes, Monsterverse, and stolen fanart. Don’t get me wrong, i skreeonking love the MV, but it’s literally all that’s talked about. There’s barely any discussions about anything else. Even SP, and that shits coming out in two months! It’s even worse on r/monsterverse. Way goddamn worse.

TK has spoiled me...

Damn, really? People only talk about the Monsterverse on R/Monsterverse? That's crazy...
You can expect more SP talk once it actually releases for the west. R/Godzilla is primarily a western sub, or at least an English-speaking sub.

On the topic of animation in the MV, I know the feel of them not exactly displaying their weight well, I really get those vibes too. I think my fav shot in GVK that does a good job of displaying weight is the one where Mechagodzilla's slamming Godzilla's head into those buildings and the impacts are spinning the office chairs in the foreground. It reminds me of the great and quick shot in Shin Godzilla where his feet in the background rattle the roof tiles in the foreground. But seeing Godzilla and Kong fight quickly around puny looking skyscrapers doesn't come across as "giant" in a weight sense to me, yknow? I mean, it's obviously GIANT SCALE, but... you can't feel it imo. In G2014 everything moves a bit slowly but with weight and purpose.

Of course, it's not something that bugs me much, I love the fast paced fighting for what it is. It just feels like its missing a bit of presentation.

Added in 54 seconds:

I got you, bro.

My man!!

[Moogabunga]

Regarding the CGI, now maybe this is just me but does anyone else think the effects actually looked better during the day scenes than they did during night (Hong Kong)?

[Jermobooka]

Kinda-sorta off topic, but i honestly can’t stand r/GODZILLA anymore. It’s all just Monsterverse, memes, Monsterverse, and stolen fanart. Don’t get me wrong, i skreeonking love the MV, but it’s literally all that’s talked about. There’s barely any discussions about anything else. Even SP, and that shits coming out in two months! It’s even worse on r/monsterverse. Way goddamn worse.

TK has spoiled me...

Damn, really? People only talk about the Monsterverse on R/Monsterverse? That's crazy...
You can expect more SP talk once it actually releases for the west. R/Godzilla is primarily a western sub, or at least an English-speaking sub.

Okay, i probably should’ve left that out. Just ignore it

And yeah, i understand that, but i thought by now the hype would start ramping up, especially with the new trailer, but GvK is overshadowing it by a wiiiiiide margin. Which is understandable, but it gets boring browsing there and only stuff related to the MV with very little of other things.

...does that make sense? Do i sound insane? Honestly can’t tell

[_JNavs_]

Regarding the CGI, now maybe this is just me but does anyone else think the effects actually looked better during the day scenes than they did during night (Hong Kong)?

It really depends, I think both look stunning.

[Dv-218]

Yeah, imo the CGI looked fantastic in both settings. The aircraft carrier and MG fight were splendid but the first HK battle is a visual feast to the eyes. That shot of Godzilla's first arrival and Kong "wrangling" Godzilla looked sick in particular- plus it was epic to see a nighttime battle where details on both kaiju are actually visible.

[obZen]

Honestly, on a multitude of levels— I think it was genius of Wingard to use Hong Kong as the setting for the final sequence.