Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

[MegaEvilSaurus666]

They're really struggling to find a true identity for this series. That comes with consistency, and there is no consistency here.

Contrast the tones, music, plot etc... Godzilla 1954, to Ghidorah the Three Head Monster, Son of Godzilla, and Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla.

Part of the reason why many of the Godzilla films are super rewatchable is how different they are and can satisfy different itches depending on what you want to do. I agree with the points made, but I don’t see “consistency as a bad thing”. I sort of realized that you can watch any entry of the Monsterverse independently and not lose or miss too much.

My problem with that is that the Showa era films weren't really meant to be a cohesive, consistent series the same way the MonsterVerse is. The budgets were different, along with the target audiences. Varan, Rodan, Mothra, and Baragon were not originally part of the Godzilla series in their debut films. Godzilla never even looked remotely close to the same from movie to movie for the most part. There's a charm and passion that comes with the older films that just isn't there with this series for me.

The Showa era films could stand alone with each having their own unique appeal, but the MonsterVerse is/was meant to be a film series with continuity, lore, reoccurring characters, world building, and so on, as soon as they decided to do that. It's branded that way. That consistency was the main thing I was looking forward to seeing. I want to see monster movies, the genre as a whole, rise out of the cheapness that the low budget 1970s films and shows (Godzilla, Ultraman, Gamera) essentially stigmatized them to be. It's an entirely different thing these days, and I don't really see why this comparison is made so often.

I assumed it to be like an episodic type of series, in ways similar to the Heisei Gamera trilogy, rather than nearly a patchwork of concepts and visions, retconning previous installments as it goes along, and not telling a truly solid story. And more generally, it's been disheartening to see so many fans call for more monster battles in recent years. It's in sacrifice of an actual well developed story and human characters. Following that logic, the movies are made mainly to set up the climactic fights, rather than the fights being a consequence of the story progression.

[Gojira2K]

So, I just re-watched it again on HBO Max, and I actually noticed some more stuff related to King Ghidorah. When the Hollow Earth energy is being uploaded to MechaGodzlla, throughout that whole sequence I swear that warble that the Monsterverse King Ghidorah is present. When the Hollow Earth is being pumped into MechaGodzilla's legs, you can very clearly hear his roar. When we get the closeup of MechaGodzilla's eyes going back and forth between red and blue, every time they're red, you can hear that signature warble, especially when it finally stays on red, and when you get the closeup of the right eye. They really want to show Ghidorah's influence over MechaGodzilla. It's actually really well done.

[plasmabeam]

Jesus skreeonking Christ did you guys listen to the same soundtrack I did? This is easily the best work since G2014. Which is the only soundtrack I actively remember.

It's, and I'm probably gonna start something, but giving me a pacific rim vibe every time the chords start. You know, the weight awe and size of kaiju in motion. The spectacle of the battle.

No one remembers the theme playing when MechaGodzilla first appeared? Easily an Imperial March level theme.

When Godzilla first attacks Kong, snapping underwater? That track made my heart jump. You feel the intensity. Maybe it just needs time to settle.

Personally I'm hoping they continue this theme

I think the themes themselves are pretty decent, but when you hear them incorporated into the actual movie, it's amazing. The scene with Kong ripping to shreds MechaG got me so hyped not just by the spectacle but by the music that accompanied it. It was awesome

Very true.

And an unpopular opinion: I prefer Godzilla's new theme to his original Ifukube. Well, I prefer the new version's initial "duhhhh, duh duh duhhhhhhhh" to the old version. It just sounds so much bigger and so much more sinister. Then I love Ifukube's theme when it turns into more of a regular galloping song with quicker strings. But I think Junkie XL outdid the original dun-dun-dun's.

[Dv-218]

As far as original soundtracks go GvK's is probably my 2nd favorite after KOTM currently. Idk if it's just me but I found it to be much more memorable and striking than either KSI or G14 (sorry, aside from the opening theme I legit cannot memorize any other piece). Kong's letimotif is genuinly fantastic and perfectly captures the character's appearance essence in a way that I found pretty statisfying- especially when he discovers the throne room, god what a majestic track. Godzilla's theme grew on me upon each rewatch, I think that for the portrayal this movie was aiming for it fits. I particularly like the version that plays in the Tasman sea fight and the deeper one that plays when he first emerges in HK- it's not Ifukube, but it just radiates power and menace.

MG's theme is easily the show stealer though. The synth and chorus work incredibly well, particularly during the initial reveal.

[miguelnuva]

Me personally Bear's theme should be used as Godzilla's theme going foreword.

I understand why they would want the MV to have its theme for Godzilla but Bear's just felt right. It was classic but it was remixed.

[Dv-218]

Me personally Bear's theme should be used as Godzilla's theme going foreword.

I understand why they would want the MV to have its theme for Godzilla but Bear's just felt right. It was classic but it was remixed.

I agree. Would be open to see it return in some form as Godzilla's main motif. But in the same way I really wouldn't mind if Holkenburg's theme returns either, imo it managed to capture a distinct yet familiar identity for this Godzilla well. Bear's is still on top for me though.

[MegaEvilSaurus666]

Personally, I didn't hear anything truly spectacular within Holkenborg's soundtrack. I've had to really listen to it multiple times separate from the film, and then watch the film a couple times afterwards to feel like anything truly stands out. His Godzilla theme seems to trail off after the first five notes. Later on, the soundtrack begins to use those five notes over and over, as if Holkenborg realized that as well. The Kong theme isn't exactly striking unless I really try to make it so. It's sort of a big, loud, exciting set of background tracks, and it's good enough at that. It's neat. I do like the music that plays during the Hong Kong battle, and it's awesome when Kong chops Mechagodzilla to pieces, though. But the weakest feels like the aircraft carrier battle, especially when Godzilla pushes the ship over and has everyone pretty much submerged. That electronic sound isn't good at that moment.

I can't bring myself to say that it's as good as Desplat's Godzilla 2014 ost or McCreary's GKOTM ost, that would be dishonest. Certainly not above Ifukube's work. The Godzilla theme is almost like a parody of Ifukube's, I hate to say. The theme doesn't really fit outside of this movie, either. I feel like McCreary would have done better overall. I'd like to hear Desplat's work again, too.

At least it stands out more than the majority of Henry Jackman's soundtrack for K:SI. I really liked the percussion and strings in that, though. I did like "Man v. Beast," that one is really cool.

[Dv-218]

To each their own really. I actually found the entire aircraft sequence to have the best track in the film besides the final HK section, I really like the escalating tune that plays with Godzilla gradually approaching the ship underwater. Felt genuinly tense. I definitely feel like Kong's motif is the stronger one of the two here, I dig the gradual shift from the sympathetic tune to the more triumphant and heroic one towards the house end. But Godzilla's theme does have it's charm- captured a neat and predatory feeling imo.

I will say that nothing tops the KOTM ost for me, McCreary did a phenomenal job with both the classic Ifukube tracks and the original themes he composed for Ghidorah and Rodan. Would love to see him score another theoretical Godzilla film in the MV.

[Cookson]

I feel like they should have really put an exclamation point that it was Ghidorah controlling Mechagodzilla at the end. Like parts of Ghidorah start seeping through the MG body. Nothing crazy but something to really show why Godzilla has been so serious about taking out Apex facilities etc.

[Thegarbagemonster]

I feel like they should have really put an exclamation point that it was Ghidorah controlling Mechagodzilla at the end. Like parts of Ghidorah start seeping through the MG body. Nothing crazy but something to really show why Godzilla has been so serious about taking out Apex facilities etc.

I feel like even turning the eyes yellow would be enough to convey that.

[Moogabunga]

Aw man, an awesomely designed monster for GvK but not in the movie

https://twitter.com/KenBarthelmey/statu ... 5298582530

[GodzillaFan1990's]

I'm honestly not sure if I'm the only one here but Godzilla vs. Kong's tone and vibe feels like a blend of G14 and KotM.

[Desghidorah]

I'm honestly not sure if I'm the only one here but Godzilla vs. Kong's tone and vibe feels like a blend of G14 and KotM.

Yeah I'd agree. The fun factor of KOTM but having a lot of the dynamic camera work and visual presentation akin to the more overt parts of 2014 and SI

[GodzillaFan1990's]

Yeah I'd agree. The fun factor of KOTM but having a lot of the dynamic camera work and visual presentation akin to the more overt parts of 2014 and SI

Probably among the other reasons I liked this more then KotM.

[Thegarbagemonster]

Shimidah is so cool, it reminds me of the cut lake creature from KSI. Looks like more time was originally meant to be spent in the HE.

[Moogabunga]

[Jermobooka]

Shimidah feels and looks a bit like Vishnu. Y’know, that weird dead monster in the G14 comic con teaser

[Thegarbagemonster]

Jesus skreeonking Christ did you guys listen to the same soundtrack I did? This is easily the best work since G2014. Which is the only soundtrack I actively remember.
...
No one remembers the theme playing when MechaGodzilla first appeared? Easily an Imperial March level theme.

It depends on your tastes. See, you liked the G2014 OST, but most people feel that one was forgettable- and it's those same people who dislike the GVK soundtrack for the same reasons. Personally, I find all the MV films to have a memorable soundtrack except KSI- but I do like that one when I watch the film.

The reason KOTM's soundtrack stands out above the rest is that every track on it is a big, distinct theme- everything in the movie has its own distinct motif melody, from the ORCA, to Monarch, to the monsters. Even the the concept of loss/death has its own melody in KOTM. Meanwhile, G2014 and GVK have their own distinct melodies for certain things, but are mainly just scored to fit the scene. I really love how both of them use a great mix of orchestral and digital music, but they don't carry the same memorable weight to them.

GVK is a good example of it, actually. The main theme for the monsters is awesome, it really really is, but all three monsters just have variations on the same base melody, and the songs don't really stand on their own in terms of storytelling. I listened to the soundtrack for GVK before I saw the movie, and I did the same with KOTM- but the difference between those experiences was that for GVK's soundtrack, I couldn't even tell when a piece was over (and the video had no timestamps to help). Everything kind of meshes into eachother, whereas KOTM has a whole new voice for each track.

It really helps to have ones that stand out. I think the most memorable part of GVK's soundtrack is when Kong lays the smackdown on MG because of the big triumphant brass, and the most memorable part of G2014's soundtrack to me is the part where it cuts to Nevada and you suddenly hear the frantic, screeching string melody that I don't believe you hear anywhere else in the film. Those aren't my favourite parts of each OST, just the ones I find most memorable.

Added in 3 minutes 13 seconds:
Oh, by the way, regarding Shimidah: It has Godzilla's gills and neck plates, further supporting the idea that the creatures down there just naturally have Godzilla's features due to their lifestyles.

[GFAN198423]

Jesus skreeonking Christ did you guys listen to the same soundtrack I did? This is easily the best work since G2014. Which is the only soundtrack I actively remember.

For me, personally, the only score the stands out in the MonsterVerse so far is King of the Monsters. I do not feel that 2014, KSI or GvK are bad scores, they just don't stand out to me. They server the events of their respective movies well, but I find there's too much of a consistent tone from beginning to end, not much variation from one character theme to another when you're listening to it purely as music.

KOTM has very distinct music. Ghidorah, Mothra, Rodan and Godzilla all have their own themes (regardless of Godzilla and Mothra being new takes on existing themes), and you can clearly tell when you're hearing one vs any of the others. That to me is what really makes for a great movie score.

It's, and I'm probably gonna start something, but giving me a pacific rim vibe every time the chords start. You know, the weight awe and size of kaiju in motion. The spectacle of the battle.

This highlights my last point above pretty well. For me, it's a negative that the music feels like you could drop it into another franchise. While PR may be a similar movie, it's not the exact same thing and the music should be more specific to the franchise at hand. I listen to the GvK score and I can picture some of the music being used in a Marvel or a DC movie. It has traits that are fitting for giant action, but it doesn't have a sound that conveys godly monsters or exotic creatures, it just sounds like big action, too generic for me.

No one remembers the theme playing when MechaGodzilla first appeared? Easily an Imperial March level theme.

I know this moment very well because instead of giving Mechagodzilla a theme of it's own, the Godzilla theme is recycled, wasted opportunity in my book.

When Godzilla first attacks Kong, snapping underwater? That track made my heart jump. You feel the intensity. Maybe it just needs time to settle.

Personally I'm hoping they continue this theme

I don't have an issue with the new Godzilla theme as it stands, and would have no issue hearing it in future films, provided it stands out more from the rest of the score so that it feels more unique and special.

The reason KOTM's soundtrack stands out above the rest is that every track on it is a big, distinct theme- everything in the movie has its own distinct motif melody, from the ORCA, to Monarch, to the monsters. Even the the concept of loss/death has its own melody in KOTM. Meanwhile, G2014 and GVK have their own distinct melodies for certain things, but are mainly just scored to fit the scene. I really love how both of them use a great mix of orchestral and digital music, but they don't carry the same memorable weight to them.

GVK is a good example of it, actually. The main theme for the monsters is awesome, it really really is, but all three monsters just have variations on the same base melody, and the songs don't really stand on their own in terms of storytelling. I listened to the soundtrack for GVK before I saw the movie, and I did the same with KOTM- but the difference between those experiences was that for GVK's soundtrack, I couldn't even tell when a piece was over (and the video had no timestamps to help). Everything kind of meshes into eachother, whereas KOTM has a whole new voice for each track.

It really helps to have ones that stand out. I think the most memorable part of GVK's soundtrack is when Kong lays the smackdown on MG because of the big triumphant brass, and the most memorable part of G2014's soundtrack to me is the part where it cuts to Nevada and you suddenly hear the frantic, screeching string melody that I don't believe you hear anywhere else in the film. Those aren't my favourite parts of each OST, just the ones I find most memorable.

I had the same experience. I listen to the scores before the movie and like to envision what may be going on based on the sounds. When I first listened to the KOTM score, without seeing the movie I knew the music that was ultimately used when she hatches was a moment that would be full of awe and something big coming and a lot of gravitas to whatever visually happens.

With GvK, there's too little distinction throughout the film, and I get that GvK is a fairly action heavy movie throughout compared to KOTM, but there are still opportunities to vary the sound more. McCreary took the Godzilla and Mothra themes and gave us a variety of uses of them, it wasn't like the same exact sound every time. Godzilla arriving in Antartica sounds different from the rebirth scene. Mothra's theme when Madison reaches out sounds different from her hatching which sounds different from her sacrifice moment.

In GvK, Godzilla and Kong's themes are set, and to my ears, sound the same every time they're used, even though not every instance is the same overall mood.

[Dv-218]

The Shimidah looks like a pretty neat design. I dig the otherwordly looking appearance, could work very well as a HE critter. Makes me wonder what role it had in the film, I guess another kaiju the HE expedition would have encountered besides the Warbats.

Also, I will give GvK's ost the credit that like KOTM it actually does have distinct themes for both Kong and Godzilla, even if the same notes are overused. With G14 it was mostly just a randomized tune that you couldn't tell if it was supposed to accompany Godzilla or the MUTOs. It would have been cool if there was more variety but imo it handled the "character specific" theme aspect well.